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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / February 2007

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Car Wash can damage.

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BOCE1@webtv.net - 09 Feb 2007 10:50 GMT
With all the mini computers in cars its common knowledge not to hose off
the engine.  One drop of water can short out a $400 to $1200 mini
computer.

But using the undercarriage wash option at automatic car washes does the
same thing.  Its even worse because the pressure is a lot higher than a
garden hose.

Car washes have high pressure jets that spray up under the car.  The
jets blast water all over motor up to the bottom of the hood.  Just
raise your hood after you go though a wash to see the proof.  

The argument is that if the car is in good shape that wont happen.  BS:
there is no perfect car and any car can have a crack or gap in a wire or
seal.

After every snow people line up at car washes  to rinse off the salt and
road grime from under their car.  They may as well get garden hose and
blast their engine.  

I know its a trade off:  salt under car vs car dying on road, calling
tow truck, and some mechanic telling you that the computer is not
working and that the bill will be over 1,000.
Dan  Beaton - 09 Feb 2007 13:15 GMT
> With all the mini computers in cars its common knowledge not to hose off
> the engine.  One drop of water can short out a $400 to $1200 mini
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> tow truck, and some mechanic telling you that the computer is not
> working and that the bill will be over 1,000.

Interesting comment. However, cars are made to accomodate whatever they
encounter and car washes wouldn't be around for long if they regularly
did damage to the cars they wash. Do you (or anyone else here) have
first-hand knowledge of a car's systems being damaged by a car wash?
(Apart from removing loose bits of trim.)

Dan

(This account is not used for email.)
Brent P - 09 Feb 2007 14:19 GMT
> The argument is that if the car is in good shape that wont happen.  BS:
> there is no perfect car and any car can have a crack or gap in a wire or
> seal.

The underside of the car is sprayed just driving on a wet road.
Scott Dorsey - 09 Feb 2007 14:36 GMT
>> The argument is that if the car is in good shape that wont happen.  BS:
>> there is no perfect car and any car can have a crack or gap in a wire or
>> seal.
>
>The underside of the car is sprayed just driving on a wet road.

Yes.  Car engines get hosed down all the time driving through puddles.
If the computer is that poorly protected that an engine cleaning is going
to damage it, there is a serious design issue.

That said, I repack all the connectors in my car with dielectric grease.
And I do occasionally find sensor failures that are caused by damaged
insulation; the car runs fine when the engine is dry but when it gets
wet the sensor output is degraded.  That's a problem, and you fix it.
--scott

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"C'est un Nagra.  C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

cuhulin@webtv.net - 09 Feb 2007 16:17 GMT
My old buddy and his two grown married sons regularly hose off the
engines in their vehicles.

The reason I phoned J.C.Whitney's toll free phone number is because the
right side door mirror of my van got knocked off in a car wash place and
the mirror got broken.

The car wash place never did come up with a replacement (one of those
tune up centers,you know) mirror for me.When my mirror gets here,I am
taking my receipt on the mirror and my rceipt from the car wash place
and ask them to refund me what my cost of the mirror from J.C.Whitney
is.If they don't,I will go over their heads about that.The State
Attorney General would know about it too and so would
www.ripoffreport.com   and the JT and Dave radio talk show.

Don't Get Mad,Get Even.~ George Hayduke.
cuhulin
E Meyer - 09 Feb 2007 21:35 GMT
On 2/9/07 10:17 AM, in article
21962-45CC9EA3-469@storefull-3255.bay.webtv.net, "cuhulin@webtv.net"

> My old buddy and his two grown married sons regularly hose off the
> engines in their vehicles.
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> Don't Get Mad,Get Even.~ George Hayduke.
> cuhulin

All they are going to do it direct your attention to the sign at the
entrance to the car wash that lists all the things (mirrors, antennas, etc.)
that they are not responsible for if you enter the wash.  Unless they agree
to pay for it, you really don't have a leg to stand on.
Nate Nagel - 09 Feb 2007 22:14 GMT
> On 2/9/07 10:17 AM, in article
> 21962-45CC9EA3-469@storefull-3255.bay.webtv.net, "cuhulin@webtv.net"
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> that they are not responsible for if you enter the wash.  Unless they agree
> to pay for it, you really don't have a leg to stand on.

Eh, if you present it the right way they will probably pay, if they are
reputable.  Now retractable but not retracted and/or removable (such as
Fuba) antennas, low hanging fog lights, etc. they will probably not
cover, but parts of the car that are as delivered and in factory
condition they will likely give you some consideration on.

nate

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lugnut - 09 Feb 2007 14:24 GMT
>With all the mini computers in cars its common knowledge not to hose off
>the engine.  One drop of water can short out a $400 to $1200 mini
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>tow truck, and some mechanic telling you that the computer is not
>working and that the bill will be over 1,000.

When did it become common knowledge not to hose off the
engine?  I have for years and regularly do use a pressure
washer to keep the engine compartment and undercarriage
clean.  It makes it a lot easier to maintain and see
problems like oil leaks when they are small and easily
managed not to mention reducing the fire hazard created by
heavy accumulations of oil and debris.  In addition to being
easier to maintain, it is much more asthetically pleasing.
Any components that cannot withstand exposure to the
everyday elements to which they are exposed should not be
there in the first place.  If they are defective to the
point that a wash job disables them, they are already failed
or unreliable and, unsuitable for continued use.  The
failure to keep the components clean in a highly corrosive
operating environment is much more destructive than a good
cleaning.  It would probably be helpful in a corrosive
environment to spray the components with some sort of
corrosion inhibitor after cleaning and drying to retard the
effects of the road salts.  Leaving the road salts in place
is a guaranteed way to lead to damage.

Lugnut
Ivan Jager - 09 Feb 2007 23:32 GMT
> With all the mini computers in cars its common knowledge not to hose off
> the engine.

Minicomputers don't fit in most cars. A small mini might fit in a wagon or
SUV, but you'd want at least a pickup truck to carry a reasonable sized
one.

Also, if it's common knowledge, why bother telling rec.autos.tech?

Ivan
AZ Nomad - 09 Feb 2007 23:47 GMT
>> With all the mini computers in cars its common knowledge not to hose off
>> the engine.

>Minicomputers don't fit in most cars. A small mini might fit in a wagon or
>SUV, but you'd want at least a pickup truck to carry a reasonable sized
>one.

>Also, if it's common knowledge, why bother telling rec.autos.tech?

Potheads are like that.
Tegger - 10 Feb 2007 02:15 GMT
>> With all the mini computers in cars its common knowledge not to hose
>> off the engine.
>
> Minicomputers don't fit in most cars. A small mini might fit in a
> wagon or SUV, but you'd want at least a pickup truck to carry a
> reasonable sized one.

Um, not quite. A minicomputer isn't a whole lot bigger than a
microcomputer.

A minicomputer is still desktop-sized (but a bit on the "plus" side...),
and runs something old, like VAX, Solaris, or UNIX.

A microcomputer can run operating systems like MicroSoft's MS-DOS (we're
going back a few years here, young fella!), Microsoft's newfangled
"Windows" interface, or that "Apple OS" promulgated by that long-haired
Steve Jobs fella.

Signature

Tegger

Brent P - 10 Feb 2007 02:46 GMT
> A minicomputer is still desktop-sized (but a bit on the "plus" side...),
> and runs something old, like VAX, Solaris, or UNIX.

The smallest mini-computers I've seen were the size of large dorm room
refridgerators. Larger ones were as big as regular ones.
AZ Nomad - 10 Feb 2007 04:09 GMT
>> A minicomputer is still desktop-sized (but a bit on the "plus" side...),
>> and runs something old, like VAX, Solaris, or UNIX.

>The smallest mini-computers I've seen were the size of large dorm room
>refridgerators. Larger ones were as big as regular ones.

The absolute smallest mini-computer I've seen was the size of an S-100
microcomputer -- about 2.5 times the size of the original PC.
http://www.parse.com/~museum/pdp8/images-51F7ADD1/R00000252-hp.jpg

A more typical mini-computer would be like you said, dorm fridge sized:
http://www.parse.com/~museum/pdp8/images-51F7ADD1/R00000252-hp.jpg

Bigger examples of mini-computers are the size of two to four full
sized house fridges alongside each other:
http://www.webmythology.com/VAXhistory.htm
AZ Nomad - 10 Feb 2007 04:35 GMT
>>> A minicomputer is still desktop-sized (but a bit on the "plus" side...),
>>> and runs something old, like VAX, Solaris, or UNIX.

>>The smallest mini-computers I've seen were the size of large dorm room
>>refridgerators. Larger ones were as big as regular ones.

>The absolute smallest mini-computer I've seen was the size of an S-100
>microcomputer -- about 2.5 times the size of the original PC.
>http://www.parse.com/~museum/pdp8/images-51F7ADD1/R00000252-hp.jpg

>A more typical mini-computer would be like you said, dorm fridge sized:
Ooops:  cut'n'paste error:  I meant to post:
http://hampage.hu/pdp-11/kepek/1123PLUS.JPG

>Bigger examples of mini-computers are the size of two to four full
>sized house fridges alongside each other:
>http://www.webmythology.com/VAXhistory.htm
cuhulin@webtv.net - 10 Feb 2007 05:13 GMT
I was looking at   www.velocitymicro.com
and       www.gyration.com                       I am thinking about it.
cuhulin
HLS@nospam.nix - 10 Feb 2007 14:48 GMT
> I was looking at   www.velocitymicro.com
> and       www.gyration.com                       I am thinking about it.
> cuhulin

Dont wear out your brains thinking about it.  It is largely semantics.

We all know what you meant.  'Minicomputer' has a different meaning
to many of us.
cuhulin@webtv.net - 10 Feb 2007 16:28 GMT
But,what would I do with a computer? I can read online newspapers around
the World.(www.kidon.com) I can read online science and technology and
Military websites.I can email friends.I can access online news groups.I
can send photos and microphone voice recordings with my emails.Po old
dumb WebTV does all of that,and more for me.In 1999,Bo Gritz said on my
Shortwave Radio,if you don't want to put up with the hassels of using a
computer,go to Sears and buy a WebTV set top box.(Thanks,Bo)
cuhulin
cuhulin@webtv.net - 10 Feb 2007 16:45 GMT
I have a friend in Philadelphia,Penns Woods.He is my age (sixty five) he
is German by ancestry,born in Croatia.Hitler sent him and his sister an
parents to Germany in World War Two.At his age of nine years old,they
immigrated to America.He is retired from a fire rescue unit.He is an IT
expert,over forty years of computer experience,there isn't anything
about computers and all computer operating systems he doesn't know.He is
also a beta tester,he advises large companies pertaining to computer
related thingys.He was in the U.S.Air Force.He has advised me many times
before concerning computer related thingys.Someday,I might hook up a
computer.I know how to get a computer on line trouble free as concerns
getting on the internet.All I would need to do is ask him to bring me up
to date on what to do.
Now,back to me po auld dumb WebTV box.It works for me.
cuhulin
AZ Nomad - 09 Feb 2007 23:46 GMT
>With all the mini computers in cars its common knowledge not to hose off
>the engine.  One drop of water can short out a $400 to $1200 mini
>computer.

Newsflash:  cars are designed to survive being driven in the rain.  Think
for once in your pathetic life.

Another newsflash:  the ECU is sealed and typically mounted in the passenger
compartment.
anumber1 - 10 Feb 2007 22:00 GMT
> With all the mini computers in cars its common knowledge not to hose off
> the engine.  One drop of water can short out a $400 to $1200 mini
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> tow truck, and some mechanic telling you that the computer is not
> working and that the bill will be over 1,000.

I put my vehicles up on the hoist and spray them down with a powerwasher
every few weeks in the winter months here in Michigan. The vehicles are
a '91 Lumina, '99 Chevy P/U and a 2003 Trailblazer. I have had no
problems with electronics failures and in the case of the Lumina it is
about the most mint undercarrige I have ever seen on a 16 year old rust
belt car, very little corrosion.

I firmly belive this contribues greatly to the longevity of a vehicle
that is subjected to road salt. The connectors used in the wiring of a
automobile are watertight and in the case of plugwires and such if they
are affected by moisture then they need to be replaced!
cuhulin@webtv.net - 10 Feb 2007 23:24 GMT
I once read an article about a guy who painted the undrside of his new
1950 Ford car with roofing paint and he also removed the door panels and
he painted the inside door metal areas with roofing paint.He said it
dampened the noise and added protection agains't rust.Another article I
read was about how to rig up some pipe and drill a bunch of holes in the
pipe and hook it up to a garden hose.The idea is to drive the vehicle
over it once in a while to wash off the dirt and salt that is put down
on roads and bridges in the winter time.
cuhulin
Tegger - 11 Feb 2007 00:08 GMT
cuhulin@webtv.net wrote in news:21962-45CE5442-679@storefull-
3255.bay.webtv.net:

> I once read an article about a guy who painted the undrside of his new
> 1950 Ford car with roofing paint and he also removed the door panels and
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> on roads and bridges in the winter time.
> cuhulin

Aren't you the same guy who wanted to put whiskey in his gas tank to get
rid of the water in the tank?

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Tegger

Nate Nagel - 11 Feb 2007 03:46 GMT
> cuhulin@webtv.net wrote in news:21962-45CE5442-679@storefull-
> 3255.bay.webtv.net:
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> Aren't you the same guy who wanted to put whiskey in his gas tank to get
> rid of the water in the tank?

May as well be, but the principle is sound.  I remember my grandfather
had an old Willys Jeep (I barely remember it; he sold it when I was real
young) anyway he claimed that once a year he would clean the underside
of it well, and then paint the frame with whatever paint he had laying
around and a brush.  Probably would horrify a restorer, but he says that
when he sold it the frame still looked like new, which is saying
something for Western PA.

nate

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cuhulin@webtv.net - 11 Feb 2007 04:22 GMT
www.devilfinder.com    juneberry78s.com Leaving Dear Old Ireland

From this point on,I will say no more that concerns me auld home
Country.
cuhulin
Brent P - 11 Feb 2007 04:52 GMT
> May as well be, but the principle is sound.  I remember my grandfather
> had an old Willys Jeep (I barely remember it; he sold it when I was real
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> when he sold it the frame still looked like new, which is saying
> something for Western PA.

The father of one my room-mates in college worked for one of the
railroads over in IN or something... can't remember. Anyway a coworker
there had one of his cars painted with the rust-proofing paint used on
the railcars as a base coat. I suppose only on the underside and other
rust-prone areas. Story was it the car didn't rust out. Sounded like a
reasonable story to me as it was someone with access to paints designed
for long term harsh duty.
cuhulin@webtv.net - 11 Feb 2007 05:03 GMT
www.tinmantech.com    Must for Rust.
cuhulin
cuhulin@webtv.net - 11 Feb 2007 04:17 GMT
Whiskey is for drinkin,,, gas is for drivin.
I am Scotch Irish by Ancestry.Can't you tell?
cuhulin,Cattle Raid Of Cooley
Scott Dorsey - 11 Feb 2007 16:40 GMT
>Aren't you the same guy who wanted to put whiskey in his gas tank to get
>rid of the water in the tank?

That sounds like a good idea to me.  But where do I put the cherry and the
bitters?
--scott

Signature

"C'est un Nagra.  C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Tegger - 11 Feb 2007 19:01 GMT
>>Aren't you the same guy who wanted to put whiskey in his gas tank to
>>get rid of the water in the tank?
>
> That sounds like a good idea to me.  But where do I put the cherry and
> the bitters?

The cherry might clog the fuel filter. I suggest the cherry should go into
the oral cavity.

Signature

Tegger

J J - 10 Feb 2007 23:14 GMT
The manager at the NAPA store  says not to spray engine with hose. He's
a senior manager been around for years. Clean it with a rag and brake
parts cleaner only where needed.  Unlike water it evaporates fast.  He
should know because he's the one who sells you the computerized parts
when they short out.

The auto repair parts people love selling more parts to the lets hose
off everything boys.  Does your owners manual call for blasting the
motor with a garden hose?

Water splash from road is different than a high pressure blast from a
undercarriage wash. One has over 2000 psi the other doesn't.  One comes
from the side angle the other is blasting straight up to the bottom of
the hood.  For those of you who are still cant understand try this.
Splash a glass of water in you face.  Then use garden hose with blaster
nozzle and spray your closed eyes.  Maybe then you will understand
something.
 
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