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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / March 200791 Toyota Camry, Need advice on inspecting and changing injectors
I have a 91 Camry LE with 190k miles. I have had problems with fairly high hydrocarbon levels when taking my emissions testing in the past and I suspect that it is leaking injectors or perhaps poorly spraying injectors. Anyway, with 190k miles on the car, I figure the injectors probably need inspection or, even, replacement. I checked out how to remove and inspect the injectors in my shop manual and it looks like a pretty difficult procedure. Has anyone ever done this? How difficult was the procedure? Also, there are a number of parts shown in the manual that seem to be required for the testing procedure. Can these parts be obtained from the local parts house or hardware.... or, do I have to get them from Toyota. I would appreciate any advice about this. Thanks, Al >I have a 91 Camry LE with 190k miles. I have had problems with fairly >high hydrocarbon levels when taking my emissions testing in the past >and I suspect that it is leaking injectors or perhaps poorly spraying >injectors. Anyway, with 190k miles on the car, I figure the injectors >probably need inspection or, even, replacement. I would not assume that based on my experience. >I checked out how to remove and inspect the injectors in my shop >manual and it looks like a pretty difficult procedure. Has anyone [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >I would appreciate any advice about this. Diagnose the problem before you start messing with the injectors. The injectors are probably fine. Don www.donsautomotive.com >Thanks, Al > I have a 91 Camry LE with 190k miles. I have had problems with fairly > high hydrocarbon levels when taking my emissions testing in the past > and I suspect that it is leaking injectors or perhaps poorly spraying > injectors. Anyway, with 190k miles on the car, I figure the injectors > probably need inspection or, even, replacement. Much more likely your ignition components are worn or are leaking current. How old are the plugs/wires/cap/rotor?  SignatureTegger > > I have a 91 Camry LE with 190k miles. I have had problems with fairly > > high hydrocarbon levels when taking my emissions testing in the past [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Much more likely your ignition components are worn or are leaking current. > How old are the plugs/wires/cap/rotor? I'd respond to the OP, but he's the classic type to ask 50 questions a year about his POS yet never post a followup/fix/thanks. You are right on the money though. --Think low coil current due to partially shorted/deteriorated secondary windings-- er, I mean, sure, it's definitely bad injectors! Toyota MDT in MO >> > I have a 91 Camry LE with 190k miles. I have had problems with >> > fairly high hydrocarbon levels when taking my emissions testing in [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > shorted/deteriorated secondary windings-- er, I mean, sure, it's > definitely bad injectors! I wouldn't have thought of coil breakdown. What causes coil breakdown? Simple age, or abuse/neglect of some sort? SignatureTegger The fuel injectors and most likely not bad. Look elsewhere. > >> > I have a 91 Camry LE with 190k miles. I have had problems with > >> > fairly high hydrocarbon levels when taking my emissions testing in [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > What causes coil breakdown? Simple age, or abuse/neglect of some sort? Worn-open plugs or any other hard to jump gap will increase coil voltage. As you know, higher voltages tend to find their way out of insulation. Over time excessive voltage, collapsing millions of cycles, will destroy a coil. In the case of the Toyota IIa distributors, the coil is a comparatively high failure item - especially- in 3S and 5S engines. At 10 years of age I expect a 3S or 5S coil to fail. I just had one in the other day that threw me for a loop, because I kept finding bad secondary components in my order of testing this no- start. The cap/rotor (original) wasn't conducting current, the plugs were heavily fouled, and the wires were 'just OK' but original and in need of change. The coil put out a good looking spark on my initial quick test with an adjustable gap type KV tester. Upon assembly to test out the needed secondary parts it had an occasional misfire above idle. Replacing the coil cured that - the coil was intermittently shorting inside it's secondary winding. This will cause high HC across all cylinders as a result of the incomplete combustion of a proper fuel mixture. HTH, Toyota MDT in MO >> What causes coil breakdown? Simple age, or abuse/neglect of some >> sort? > > Worn-open plugs or any other hard to jump gap will increase coil > voltage. As you know, higher voltages tend to find their way out of > insulation. I thought it was just heat that did that. A question then: Is it the high voltage itself, or the heat generated by that high voltage that leads to current leaking past the coil's insulation? Over time excessive voltage, collapsing millions of > cycles, will destroy a coil. In the case of the Toyota IIa > distributors, the coil is a comparatively high failure item - > especially- in 3S and 5S engines. At 10 years of age I expect a 3S or > 5S coil to fail. And everybody laughs at me because I advocate replacing the secondary components every five years, plugs every two. > I just had one in the other day that threw me for a loop, because I > kept finding bad secondary components in my order of testing this no- [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > across all cylinders as a result of the incomplete combustion of a > proper fuel mixture. Thanks very much. Great info for a non-tech like me. SignatureTegger > > Worn-open plugs or any other hard to jump gap will increase coil > > voltage. As you know, higher voltages tend to find their way out of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > high voltage itself, or the heat generated by that high voltage that > leads to current leaking past the coil's insulation? I assume that heat is the base cause of failure. A particularly bad secondary component will often look "burned" in one area from unintended arcing to ground (insulation failure or too high firing voltage). > And everybody laughs at me because I advocate replacing the secondary > components every five years, plugs every two. If everybody was your friend, then they wouldn't laugh at you for what you really believe in. I think you should find other friends. > Thanks very much. Great info for a non-tech like me. No problem! Toyota MDT in MO >> I thought it was just heat that did that. A question then: Is it the >> high voltage itself, or the heat generated by that high voltage that [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > secondary component will often look "burned" in one area from unintended > arcing to ground (insulation failure or too high firing voltage). Yeah, the top of the inside of the Distr. Cap looked like a bomb had been set of in there! Wish me luck; it isn't hard reaplcing the igniter, just $$$ if the one from the Celica isn't right... And if I can't find it... > >> What causes coil breakdown? Simple age, or abuse/neglect of some > >> sort? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > high voltage itself, or the heat generated by that high voltage that > leads to current leaking past the coil's insulation? What "heat" are you referring to? Worn out plugs and/or plug wires that cause the secondary to go to a higher voltage before spark discharge probably don't directly cause the coil o get any hotter. But if arcing occurs (somewhere in the secondary other than at the spark plug) then obviously heat plays a role in the breakdown of the insulation that is breached by the arcing. If the secondary arcs somewhere thru the insulation it increases the chance it will happen again in the same spot because of that breakdown of the insulation. However, I doubt this is the OP's problem. He said the vehicle has 190K and apparently the problem with high HC emissions has been going on for some time. My guess would be that the engine burns some oil. If that is the case setting the spark plug gaps a little wider than the recommended may actually help with his problem. -jim > Over time excessive voltage, collapsing millions of > > cycles, will destroy a coil. In the case of the Toyota IIa [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > -- > Tegger >> I wouldn't have thought of coil breakdown. >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > comparatively high failure item - especially- in 3S and 5S engines. At 10 > years of age I expect a 3S or 5S coil to fail. Well, let's see what happens. My '88 Supra didn't pass emissions but I knew the plugs and wires were bad. Shoot, you could see the deterioration of the plug wires. This winter with it parked safely in the garage I did the nasty job of yanking the intake, etc and replacing with NGK wires and NGK plugs. The plugs were horrendous: 4 N-D U-Groove coppers, one N-D Platinum and one NGK Platinum. The oldest one was right under the intake, the next oldest was in cyl 4 and the newer U-Grooves were in 1-2-5-6. The gap was .080, max 'spec' for the car, but no oil on them. I also replaced the leaking exhaust VCG and the intake too. So, if it doesn't pass this time I'll take a look at the igniter. I think I have one from a 22RE Celica that looked similar if I need to replace it. >> > I have a 91 Camry LE with 190k miles. I have had problems with fairly >> > high hydrocarbon levels when taking my emissions testing in the past [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Toyota MDT in MO Hey! *I* always said thanks! Didn't I? Good to see you two again. Hey, where's all the Political Discussion?! ;) I'm glad someone crossed the the Toyota group. Now I have a place to go to talk CARS!!!! > >> > I have a 91 Camry LE with 190k miles. I have had problems with fairly > >> > high hydrocarbon levels when taking my emissions testing in the past [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > - Show quoted text - What's a "car"? Toyota MDT in MO > On Mar 16, 2:37 pm, Hachiroku ãƒãƒãƒã‚¯ <Tru...@AE86.gts> wrote: >> Hey! *I* always said thanks! Didn't I? >> >> Good to see you two again. Hey, where's all the Political >> Discussion?! >> I'm glad someone crossed the the Toyota group. Now I have a place to >> go to talk CARS!!!! > > What's a "car"? Different from a "Bush". ;) SignatureTegger |
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