Air Conditioning repair.

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Noozer - 23 Mar 2007 20:51 GMT

Last year the air conditioning in my car stopped blowing cold air. A/C
compressor clutch would not engage unless I jumpered the pressure switch,
and even then the air was not cold. I dumped in a can of DuraCool and the
cold air was restored for about a day or so.

Car is a 1993 Madza 626 ES. V6 engine. R12 A/C system.

I'm considering doing the A/C repairs myself and I was wondering if there is
anything in particular that I need to pay special attention to.

I know that a new dryer should be installed. I also know that I should be
sure to evacuate the system properly before recharging to draw any air out
of the system. Beyond that it looks simply like plumbing to me... find the
leak and replace/repair. I am considering pulling open any connection and
replacing the O-rings as well.

I plan on refilling with DuraCool to avoid having to retrofit to R134a or
the cost/hassle of R12. I was wondering if Duracool is anything more than a
measured amount of propane, and if BBQ propane, etc. would work just as
well.

Any comments? Any hints at how I can identify my leaks?

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Noozer - 23 Mar 2007 20:55 GMT

> Last year the air conditioning in my car stopped blowing cold air. A/C
> compressor clutch would not engage unless I jumpered the pressure switch,
> and even then the air was not cold. I dumped in a can of DuraCool and the
> cold air was restored for about a day or so.

Also wanted to know if having the system evacuated is going to be affected
since there is now DuraCool in my A/C system.

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aarcuda69062 - 24 Mar 2007 00:42 GMT

> > Last year the air conditioning in my car stopped blowing cold air. A/C
> > compressor clutch would not engage unless I jumpered the pressure switch,
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Also wanted to know if having the system evacuated is going to be affected
> since there is now DuraCool in my A/C system.

Anyone worth having do the work is going to use a refrigerant
identifier before performing any service. Once identified as been
filled with a HC, anyone worth having do the work is going to
stop right there and refuse to continue.
Personally, I'd give you at least six seconds to get the vehicle
off my business property.

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Roger Blake - 24 Mar 2007 04:16 GMT

> Also wanted to know if having the system evacuated is going to be affected
> since there is now DuraCool in my A/C system.

There is a lot of controversy over hydrocarbon refrigerants as a search
of web and Usenet will show. However, one thing that just about everyone
agrees on -- if you install anything but R12 or R134a in your car's A/C
system, you are committing to servicing it yourself in perpetuity since
no shop will be willing to touch it. (BTW, there are non-flammable
alternatives available also, such as "Autofrost" R-406a. But you still
are unlikely to find a shop willing to work with such niche products.)

Signature

Roger Blake
(Subtract 10 for email.)

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jfrancis311@gmail.com - 23 Mar 2007 21:03 GMT

You are asking for problems. Why would you want to put a flammable gas
under pressure that circulates thru the cabin of your vehicle? Does
this not concern you or the people riding in the car? It sounds like
you need to take it to someone who can fixe it right. Why would you
not retrofit to 134a the first time. I can understand not wanting to
spend the money on r12, but r134 is not expensive.

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Don - 24 Mar 2007 01:34 GMT

>You are asking for problems. Why would you want to put a flammable gas
>under pressure that circulates thru the cabin of your vehicle? Does
>this not concern you or the people riding in the car? It sounds like
>you need to take it to someone who can fixe it right. Why would you
>not retrofit to 134a the first time. I can understand not wanting to
>spend the money on r12, but r134 is not expensive.

Actually R12 is not that expensive at this time and it will work quite
a bit better than anything else. Last time somebody tried to sell me
R12 the price had gone down. I have plenty so didn't buy any.

Don
www.donsautomotive.com

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HLS@nospam.nix - 24 Mar 2007 01:41 GMT

"Don" <don@NO-SPAMdonsautomotive.com> wrote in message

> Why would you
> >not retrofit to 134a the first time. I can understand not wanting to
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> a bit better than anything else. Last time somebody tried to sell me
> R12 the price had gone down. I have plenty so didn't buy any.

I retrofitted to R134a, and it works apparently as well as R12. Retrofit
cost was not too bad, as I already had to replace the compressor.

I didnt want to screw around with R12 any longer, and am glad I made
that decision.

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Noozer - 24 Mar 2007 05:42 GMT

> You are asking for problems. Why would you want to put a flammable gas
> under pressure that circulates thru the cabin of your vehicle? Does
> this not concern you or the people riding in the car? It sounds like
> you need to take it to someone who can fixe it right. Why would you
> not retrofit to 134a the first time. I can understand not wanting to
> spend the money on r12, but r134 is not expensive.

If necessary, I can pull the whole A/C system out of the car and replace it
without any problem.

What I DON'T know is what to do afterwards. I'm all for taking it someplace
to have it evacuated and charged properly with R12 or R134a, but not if
their going to charge me $100 an ounce (or whatever the going rate is). I
also don't know if the oils in R134a will work well with the oils from the
R12.

I want to identify the leak(s) myself, then replace all the O-rings and the
dryer. Once that's done pull a vacuum and recharge. If it's reasonable to
have someone else do it, that's great, but I'm not paying someone $100/hr
just to suck and blow.

Last time I took a car to a shop for A/C issues, the guy walked out to the
car (didn't even pull the car into the garage), waved his sniffer around and
then tried to charge me $50 for those 90 second or so.

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M.M. - 24 Mar 2007 05:48 GMT

Check out this site:

http://acsource.net/acforum/

Go to the A/C Questions and Opinions section.

One of the more helpful automotive forums I've run across.

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Steve W. - 27 Mar 2007 03:16 GMT

>> You are asking for problems. Why would you want to put a flammable gas
>> under pressure that circulates thru the cabin of your vehicle? Does
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> car (didn't even pull the car into the garage), waved his sniffer around and
> then tried to charge me $50 for those 90 second or so.

You should be able to salvage most of the hard parts of the system. Open
the system and flush it with solvent. Then replace ALL the O-Rings with
134A compatible ones. Replace the drier with a 134A unit and flush the
compressor VERY well. Replace the rubber lines with 134A compatibles
that have the correct fittings. Connect it all up and draw a vacuum on
it and see what you get. If it will hold a vacuum then you could take it
in and have a shop charge it with 134A or use a set of gauges and charge
it yourself using the pressures chart.

It has been illegal since July 13, 1995 to replace CFC-12 with the
HC-12a® formulation that was submitted for SNAP review in any
refrigeration or A/C application other than industrial process
refrigeration. The same prohibition for OZ-12® took effect on April 18,
1994. Because DURACOOL 12a® has the same chemical composition as the
HC-12a® formulation that was submitted for SNAP review (i.e.,
Hydrocarbon Blend B), DURACOOL 12a® is also subject to the same
restrictions."

Have you ever read the story about the Australian guy who was pushing
for refrigerants like duracool to be made legal because they were
totally safe? He managed to blow himself and a major backer up when he
was demonstrating how safe they were?

Signature

Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York

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aarcuda69062 - 27 Mar 2007 04:51 GMT

> >> You are asking for problems. Why would you want to put a flammable gas
> >> under pressure that circulates thru the cabin of your vehicle? Does
[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
> totally safe? He managed to blow himself and a major backer up when he
> was demonstrating how safe they were?

Why read when you can watch the movie?

http://www.vasa.org.au/images/movies/hc_demo.mov

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anumber1 - 27 Mar 2007 21:16 GMT

>>>>You are asking for problems. Why would you want to put a flammable gas
>>>>under pressure that circulates thru the cabin of your vehicle? Does
>>>>this not concern you or the people riding in the car? It sounds like
>>>>you need to take it to someone who can fixe it right. Why would you
>>>>not retrofit to 134a the first time. I can understand not wanting to
>>>>spend the money on r12, but r134 is not expensive.

SNIP

> Why read when you can watch the movie?
>
> http://www.vasa.org.au/images/movies/hc_demo.mov

Nice Video!

The point has been proven without a doubt in my mind. HC refrigerant is
capable of blowing you up.

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Noozer - 27 Mar 2007 22:34 GMT

>> Why read when you can watch the movie?
>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> The point has been proven without a doubt in my mind. HC refrigerant is
> capable of blowing you up.

Point made... I'm still hoping to be able to repair the A/C on the cheap.
The car is a '93 and not worth spending a lot on. It is reliable though and
I hope to keep it a few more years.

BTW... I'm in Calgary, Canada... Anyone in the group able to help me out?

: )

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