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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / April 2007

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1996 Chevy 454 runs rough #5 and 6 not firing

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dbox@superiorwallsnc.com - 31 Mar 2007 02:15 GMT
Started by changing the plugs in all 8 then wires,cap and
roter,Checked and compared all compression all 8 close to the same.
I know it is 5 and 6 because there is no change when the plug wires
are on or off the cap.
No check engine light
I havent pulled any codes yet, they charge $75. to do that but I may
have to.

Could it be in the fuel system? I would have to take of the plenum to
check, lots of work and it is in a motor home so there isnt alot of
room to work.

Could it be the cam? It is strange that it is 5 and 6 they are across
from each other.
Oil seems to be ok and not full of fuel
Exhaust seems rich and it is eating gas

Any idas or suggestions would be helpfull.
Thanks Boxer
Rodan - 31 Mar 2007 04:20 GMT
Boxer wrote:           ( 1996 Chevy 454 )

Cylinders #5 and 6 do not fire.    I changed plugs, wires, cap
and rotor.  Compression for all 8 is good.   There is no change
with the 5 and 6 plug wires are on or off the cap.    No CEL.

Could it be in the fuel system? I would have to remove the
plenum to check, it's in a motor home not much room to work.

Could it be the cam?  It is strange that it is 5 and 6 across
from each other.   Oil seems to be ok and not full of fuel.
Exhaust seems rich and it is eating gas.    Any ideas?
___________________________________________

High gas consumption can be expected if 2 cyls are not firing.

Some firing orders such as  1_8_4_3_6_5_7_2  make it easy to
mistakenly interchange the #5 and #6 wires at the distributor
cap.   Confirm actual firing order and recheck wire installation.

Distributor cap shorted or cracked between the #5 and #6 posts.

Cap on crooked - rotor is too far from #5 and #6.

Vacuum leak in manifold near #5 and #6 intake ports.

Two bad individual injectors at #5 and #6.

Two bad plugs.     Remove the #5 and #6 plugs, lay them
on a metal engine part, attach the plug wires and crank the
engine.   If there is spark, plugs and wires are probably okay.

Probably not the cam because compression is okay.

Good luck.

Rodan.
dbox@superiorwallsnc.com - 31 Mar 2007 12:35 GMT
> Boxer wrote:           ( 1996 Chevy 454 )
>
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
>
> Rodan.

5 and 6 were not fireing befor i changed out cap,roter,plugs and
wires, the cap is the new type and has the even on one side and odd on
the other with the corrisponding # on it so i am shure they are
correct.

It is the type of manifold that has 2 rails in it feeding the
cyclendres id doesnt have individual injectors. It could be a bad rail
or tube?

Whare would i check for a manifold air leak between 5 and 6 or shouldi
spray wd40 near there and listen for a change in rpm?
Noozer - 31 Mar 2007 13:05 GMT
> 5 and 6 were not fireing befor i changed out cap,roter,plugs and
> wires, the cap is the new type and has the even on one side and odd on
> the other with the corrisponding # on it so i am shure they are
> correct.

"Not firing" Just what does this mean?

No spark at the plug? Plugs sparking fine, but an error code is being
stored?
Scrapper - 31 Mar 2007 14:07 GMT
cracked rings or you need valve's checked and may just be a couple
pushrod off.....

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Scrapper

http://www.automotiveforums.com

* - 31 Mar 2007 14:49 GMT
Scrapper <Scrapper.2oba3f@no-mx.nodomain.com> wrote in article

> cracked rings or you need valve's checked and may just be a couple
> pushrod off.....

Cracked rings?

I think you're ON crack!

In 40+ years of working on cars, I've never seen "cracked rings".....

Broken rings, yes!

Cracked rings.....never.

Do you even know what rings are made of, and how they would break much
easier than crack?

I love the "experts" that ooze up from the muck at automotiveforums.com
Scrapper - 31 Mar 2007 18:09 GMT
oh you must be working on model cars all those years.....so you must be
on crack......

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Scrapper

http://www.automotiveforums.com

Rodan - 01 Apr 2007 01:40 GMT
Boxer wrote:           ( 1996 Chevy 454 )

    Cylinders #5 and 6 do not fire.    I changed plugs, wires, cap and rotor.  Compression for
all 8 is good.   There is no change with the 5 and 6 plug wires are on or off the cap.    No CEL.
   Could it be in the fuel system? I would have to remove the plenum to check, it's in a motor
home not much room to work.
  Could it be the cam?  It is strange that it is 5 and 6 across from each other.   Oil seems to
be ok and not full of fuel.  Exhaust seems rich and it is eating gas.    Any ideas?
___________________________________________

Some firing orders such as  1_8_4_3_6_5_7_2  make it easy to
mistakenly interchange the #5 and #6 wires at the distributor
cap.   Confirm actual firing order and recheck wire installation.

___  Dtributor cap shorted or cracked between the #5 and #6 posts.
___  Cap on crooked - rotor is too far from #5 and #6.
___  Vacuum leak in manifold near #5 and #6 intake ports.
___ Two bad individual injectors at #5 and #6.
___ Two bad plugs.     Remove the #5 and #6 plugs, lay them
on a metal engine part, attach the plug wires and crank the
engine.   If there is spark, plugs and wires are probably okay.
___ Probably not the cam because compression is okay.

Good luck.      Rodan.
____________________________________________________

===  5 and 6 were not firing before new ignition parts were installed.
===  Distributor cap is the new type and has the evens on one side
===  and odds on the other with the corresponding # on it so I am
===  sure they are correct.

You don't know that they are "not firing", because you
have not taken those two plugs out and visibly observed
the sparks.   This is the first (and zero-cost) test needed.
Then you can decide what further action to take.

===  The manifold has 2 rails feeding the cylinders.   It doesn't
===  have individual injectors.  It could be a bad rail or tube?

If there are injectors, a couple could be dribbling fuel.
Fuel rails feed smaller tubes that usually go to injectors.
Sorry, I have no experience with tubes that don't end
in fuel injectors.

===  Where would I check for a manifold air leak between 5 and 6
===  or should spray WD-40 there and listen for a change in rpm?

It is a small probability of the cause.  I meant a big vacuum
leak, like a brake vacuum port in the manifold left open.

Notes

Another possible cause: a sloppy bearing in the distributor that
lets the shaft lean off-center, so the rotor passes too far from
the #5 and #6 terminals.

A flat cam lobe, a burned valve, a bent pushrod, or broken piston
rings could cause misfiring, but you confirmed that compression
is acceptable and uniform, so the problem must be elsewhere.

Good luck.      Rodan.
Steve - 01 Apr 2007 02:48 GMT
> Started by changing the plugs in all 8 then wires,cap and
> roter,Checked and compared all compression all 8 close to the same.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> I havent pulled any codes yet, they charge $75. to do that but I may
> have to.

If its a 454, its either got bent pushrods or well bend some pushrods if
it doesn't throw a rod through the block or get totalled in a wreck
first. Some things never change. Pop the valve cover and replace the
bent pushrods.
dbox@superiorwallsnc.com - 02 Apr 2007 00:21 GMT
> d...@superiorwallsnc.com wrote:
> > Started by changing the plugs in all 8 then wires,cap and
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> first. Some things never change. Pop the valve cover and replace the
> bent pushrods.

i will give it a look it soinds like the easiest thing to check next.
although 5 and 6 have the same compression as the rest.
 
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