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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / April 2007

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Need help diagnosing Smog - High HC @ idle only

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Pigeon Hohl - 16 Apr 2007 20:59 GMT
I just picked up a nice, really clean 1992 Honda Accord wagon for
$400.00. It has been well-maintained, and has 224,000 miles (long
commute).

Here are the readings from the previous smog check on 05/31/05, when it
easily passed:

(Odometer 199,770)

RPM  %C02  %02  HC (PPM)  CO (%)

717  14.8  0.7  16        0.01

2695 15.2  0.0  15        0.13

As you can see, it was running pretty clean for such a high-milage car.

When it was taken for smog check on 3/17/07, it failed HC at idle:

(Odometer 223,879)
 
RPM  %C02  %02  HC (PPM)       CO (%)

699  8.2   9.4  131 (max 120)  0.40

2480 14.2  1.1  16             0.09

I also noticed that the CO (at idle) was much higher than before, but
still well-within the max of 1.0 percent. I spent several hours reading
archived posts from this newsgroup, and have found a lot of great info.
This one has me stumped, though. What could cause higher HC at idle only,
and also elevated CO readings (again at idle only)? Also, note the
differences in CO2 and 02 readings.

Looking at the repair records, I'm pretty sure this car is running the
original oxygen sensor and cat. I will probably replace the sensor as a
matter of course, but as money is a bit tight at the moment, would rather
avoid replacing the cat if possible - at least right away.

Engine runs great with no missing, plug wires and spark plugs are fairly
new, cap and rotor are 2 years old and have 27k, so I will replace those.
I didn't see that the EGR valve was ever serviced/cleaned, so will do it.
Oil was changed 1000 miles ago, but car has been mostly sitting for 7
months (probably should change, eh?)

Obviously I would like to get the HC and CO back down to normal. Still,
I'm curious if simply replacing cap and rotor and changing the oil might
get the HC from 131 PPM to the allowable max of 120 at idle.

Also, I like the idea (gleaned here) of running the car at 2000 RPM for
two minutes right before test to heat up the cat (having it "lit up").

Any help or info is always much appreciated!

Pigeon
Mike Romain - 16 Apr 2007 21:15 GMT
> I just picked up a nice, really clean 1992 Honda Accord wagon for
> $400.00. It has been well-maintained, and has 224,000 miles (long
[quoted text clipped - 51 lines]
>
> Pigeon

A dirty air filter can cause that, especially if there are any oil spits
(blowby) in there.  Then it reads raw HC's which blows it up fast from
what I have seen.  I got one Jeep that read worse than yours to pass by
just changing the air filter and cleaning the air tube from the filter
to the throttle body to get the oil spits out.  I did do an oil change
before taking it in though.  I also fixed the plugged CCV that caused
the spits, but some blowby is to be expected on an old engine.

Things like the EGR are for high speed, not idle.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos:  Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
jfrancis311@gmail.com - 17 Apr 2007 17:09 GMT
you might want to make sure the valves are adjusted to the correct
spec.With that many miles, if it was never done it is way past due.
Pigeon Hohl - 17 Apr 2007 21:08 GMT
> you might want to make sure the valves are adjusted to the correct
> spec.With that many miles, if it was never done it is way past due.

I was thinking about that. None of the repair records from the 2nd
owner­­going back to '99­­show that the valves were ever adjusted,
which is strange, because the other usual stuff was done regularly.
I will do it for sure.
Mike Romain - 17 Apr 2007 21:15 GMT
>> you might want to make sure the valves are adjusted to the correct
>> spec.With that many miles, if it was never done it is way past due.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> which is strange, because the other usual stuff was done regularly.
> I will do it for sure.

Honda has adjustable valves?????

Aren't they overhead cam engines?

Could be wrong, but...

So was there any oil in the air filter?

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos:  Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
jfrancis311@gmail.com - 18 Apr 2007 03:58 GMT
Honda has had adjustable valves for as long as I can remember. It is
critical for the valves to be right on a Honda or you will start to
see problems like this.
Pigeon Hohl - 20 Apr 2007 03:47 GMT
> So was there any oil in the air filter?

Sorry for the delay...

I checked the oil filter, and it looks really clean, and there's no sign
of oil being sucked in. When it stops raining, I will check the 02
sensor to see if it is going into closed-loop, reacting normally to lean
and rich conditions. Any other ideas for the high HC and CO?

Pigeon
 
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