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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / May 2007Do I need a Brake Job ?
2004 Accord AT @ 27K miles will be 3 year in June Original brake parts.... so is it about time I should get new pads ? And what does a "Brake Job" in my case entail ? thanks > 2004 Accord AT @ 27K miles will be 3 year in June > Original brake parts.... [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > thanks You need a brake job when something is showing signs of failure, and/or the pads are worn out. Unless you're racing and/or driving only in stop and go traffic, you ought to be fine with such low mileage. I would recommend changing the brake fluid, having a mechanic inspect your brakes, and likely you need no more work than that. good luck, nate  Signaturereplace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel >2004 Accord AT @ 27K miles will be 3 year in June > Original brake parts.... [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >thanks It's very hard to say. Original brakes typically last between 20K and 50K before the pads are worn out. In my experience it would be extremely unusual for you to need anything but new pads at that mileage UNLESS you are experiencing pulsation when you brake hard, which indicates warped rotors. If you are not getting that kind of pulsation and the brakes are otherwise working fine then in all probability the only thing you might need are new pads - no way to know without looking at them. Most repair places will want to machine your rotors. Sometimes they need it but they want to do it whether they need it or not. Most manufacturers say not to machine them unless there is a specific problem, such as warpage or deep grooves. Most repair shops ignore what the manufacturers says because they want to make the extra profit from machining them. Also, many shops will tell you that you need the calipers rebuilt due to tiny little seepage showing around the seals. That too is not true. Again, in my experience I have never needed to replace a caliper for any reason even on vehicles still running the original calipers at 125,000 miles. But I've certainly had shops tell me I need to replace them, again, it's easy profit for them. >> warped rotors what causes rotor warp ? thanks >>> warped rotors > >what causes rotor warp ? >thanks Getting the brakes too hot can do it. So can over tightening the lug nuts that hold the wheel on or tightening them unevenly. And sometimes it seems like they just decide to warp for no real reason. The first set of rotors on my 92 explorer warped every 5000 miles no matter what I did. The second set warped after 8000 but when they were turned they stayed good for another 30K or so. > >> warped rotors > > what causes rotor warp ? > thanks Rotors can undergo warping from overheating and rapid cooling, from poor torqueing of lug nuts or bolts, etc. But warp is not the only problem that can occur: variation in disc thickness can cause pedal pulsation, as can improper machining or reinstallation of a disc (rotor). I NEVER let a tire shop use anything but a torque wrench to put my wheels back on. I do not trust the torque stix because I have been burned by them on two separate occasions. A local tire shop here uses impact wrenches to put wheels back on, and when I go there on occasion, I pack my own torque wrench to let them use. Check out the Babcox site. http://www.babcox.com/editorial/bf/bf100326.htm >2004 Accord AT @ 27K miles will be 3 year in June > Original brake parts.... > >so is it about time I should get new pads ? I dunno, but now would be a good time to look at the pads and see. >And what does a "Brake Job" in my case entail ? At three years, I'd probably change the brake fluid. If you haven't done transmission fluid yet, this might be a good time to do that, too. Time to check the brake pads, and all the hoses and belts, and change anything worn. --scott Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." When I used my cars for work in the Washington DC area brake pads lasted 20 to 25 thousand miles. Depending on the kind of driving you do they can last over 100 thousand miles. I had my last car for 12 years and never replace the fluid or calipers. Fluid does not need to be changed unless it is contaminated. Calipers don't need to be changed unless there is a problem. I have replace a few calipers because of seized pistons, but I don't remember replacing any because of leaks. Because I do my own brake work I don't have the equipment to turn rotors. If they are worn excessively I replace them. Many don't agree with this, but my thinking is if the problem is metal worn from the rotor the solution is not to remove more metal. > 2004 Accord AT @ 27K miles will be 3 year in June > Original brake parts.... [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > thanks SignatureMike Walsh West Palm Beach, Florida, U.S.A. Perhaps if you had changed your fluid occasionally you wouldn't have had seized caliper pistons? nate > When I used my cars for work in the Washington DC area brake pads lasted 20 to 25 thousand miles. Depending on the kind of driving you do they can last over 100 thousand miles. I had my last car for 12 years and never replace the fluid or calipers. Fluid does not need to be changed unless it is contaminated. Calipers don't need to be changed unless there is a problem. I have replace a few calipers because of seized pistons, but I don't remember replacing any because of leaks. Because I do my own brake work I don't have the equipment to turn rotors. If they are worn excessively I replace them. Many don't agree with this, but my thinking is if the problem is metal worn from the rotor the solution is not to remove more metal. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> >>thanks Signaturereplace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel >Perhaps if you had changed your fluid occasionally you wouldn't have had >seized caliper pistons? Replacing brake fluid isn't routine maintenance. There is no reason it shouldn't last at least 10 years. No can with the possible exception of the yugo needs brake fluid replaced after just three years. If the caliper's siezed, it isn't because of old brake fluid. It is most likely because they overheated. >>Perhaps if you had changed your fluid occasionally you wouldn't have had >>seized caliper pistons? > > Replacing brake fluid isn't routine maintenance. Yes it is, the owner's manual of my Porsche (and all VW's and many other cars) says so. Every 2-3 years. > There is no reason it > shouldn't last at least 10 years. It's hygroscopic. You don't want it to get to the point where the moisture content either a) reaches the point where the corrosion inhibitors in the brake fluid stop working or b) the fluid starts boiling when you get the brakes good and hot. There's really nothing you can do to keep it from sucking moisture out of the air, except to change it regularly. > No can with the possible exception > of the yugo needs brake fluid replaced after just three years. See above - most European manfacturers *RECOMMEND* it. There's a reason why American manufacturers don't recommend fluid changes - they figure that unchanged fluid will last the life of the car, which they estimate to be about 10 years. After that, all bets are off. So if you don't plan on keeping a car longer than 10 years, by all means don't change the fluid - but if you do end up keeping it, you'll probably have to replace all the hydraulic components at your next brake job. > If the caliper's siezed, it isn't because of old brake fluid. It is most > likely because they overheated. Or the piston and/or bore corroded. nate Signaturereplace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel > >>Perhaps if you had changed your fluid occasionally you wouldn't have had > >>seized caliper pistons? [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > Or the piston and/or bore corroded. Yup, that is more than likely the cause of seized calipers in most of the world. But maybe not in Arizona. -jim > Yup, that is more than likely the cause of seized calipers in most of > the world. But maybe not in Arizona. Probably not in the desert part of AZ anyway. It was 102 in the Phoenix area today with humidity around six percent...pretty typical for this time of year. >> Yup, that is more than likely the cause of seized calipers in most of >> the world. But maybe not in Arizona. > >Probably not in the desert part of AZ anyway. It was 102 in the Phoenix >area today with humidity around six percent...pretty typical for this >time of year. Wait till summer gets here and it turns hot... >> Perhaps if you had changed your fluid occasionally you wouldn't have had >> seized caliper pistons? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > If the caliper's siezed, it isn't because of old brake fluid. It is most > likely because they overheated. Brake fluid IS a part of routine maintainance on MANY vehicles. Seized calipers are from crud in the brake fluid. Why? Real simple. standard brake fluid is VERY hydroscopic, meaning it absorbs water out of the air. This water gets carried around the system and causes rust. Ever notice how dark brake fluid gets over the years? Guess what that is, RUST and water. If you flush fresh fluid through the system every 2-3 years it removes that contaminated fluid and WILL make the parts last longer. It won't stop the lines from rotting through from the outside though. SignatureSteve W. Near Cooperstown, New York NRA Member Pacifism - The theory that if they'd fed Jeffrey Dahmer enough human flesh, he'd have become a vegan. >Seized calipers are from crud in the brake fluid. > Why? Real simple. standard brake fluid is VERY hydroscopic, meaning >it absorbs water out of the air. This water gets carried around the I guess it's a good thing that the system is sealed. The only place there is any exposure to air is in the reservoir and that is closed. There is no way for additional moisture to enter there. If you are getting lots of moisture in your brake lines, then I suggest you quit driving around in the rain with the reservoir cap missing. >>Seized calipers are from crud in the brake fluid. >> Why? Real simple. standard brake fluid is VERY hydroscopic, meaning >>it absorbs water out of the air. This water gets carried around the > >I guess it's a good thing that the system is sealed. The only place there >is any exposure to air is in the reservoir and that is closed. Correction: not exactly closed, vented in most cases. Sometimes there is a bladder that gets sucked down as the level drops from pad wear, but often not. Don www.donsautomotive,com > There is no way >for additional moisture to enter there. But it does. >If you are getting lots of moisture in your brake lines, then I suggest you >quit driving around in the rain with the reservoir cap missing. >>Perhaps if you had changed your fluid occasionally you wouldn't have had >>seized caliper pistons? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >If the caliper's siezed, it isn't because of old brake fluid. It is most >likely because they overheated. There was an article in one of the car mags and they talked to some ford engineers about the need to flush the brake fluid. They said that assuming normal use and life that flushing it when you did the typical pad replacements was pretty much the right length of time to wait. They also said that assuming no leaks that let air in, new fluid will rather quickly absorb the roughly 2 to 3% moisture it's going to absorb and then it won't absorb much more, again, if there are no air leaks letting more moist air into the system then a normally sealed system allows. But that bit of corrosion that does take place, and the worse area for moist fluid is down by the wheels, so flushing gets out that gunky stuff even though the bulk of the fluid may not be as bad. > On Sun, 13 May 2007 18:04:48 GMT, AZ Nomad > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > so flushing gets out that gunky stuff even though the bulk of the > fluid may not be as bad. I heard a similar story from some engineers myself, but their explanation was that in their experience the slight but non-zero risk of introducing crud into the ABS hydraulic control unit during a flush was actually greater than the risk of component failure due to corrosion during the expected service life of the vehicles, which I think was pegged at about 10 years, and this was the reasoning behind not recommending regular fluid changes. Several things we can learn from this: 1. When doing pad changes on an ABS-equipped vehicle, one should open the bleeder screw on the caliper before compressing the piston, and then top up the reservoir with fresh fluid if not performing a flush. If they're worried about contamination from the MC, then contamination being back-flushed from the caliper is probably an even greater concern. 2. If you *do* choose to flush, it would probably be advisable to suck the reservoir dry with a turkey baster or suction gun, and manually clean out any floating debris evident. 3. If you plan on keeping your vehicle longer than 10 years, the factory recommendations may not apply to you, and you may want to consider regular flushes. nate >>Perhaps if you had changed your fluid occasionally you wouldn't have had >>seized caliper pistons? > >Replacing brake fluid isn't routine maintenance. There is no reason it >shouldn't last at least 10 years. No can with the possible exception >of the yugo needs brake fluid replaced after just three years. Maybe, but the manual on my '86 says to replace it every year, and the '93 says to replace it every three years. I might not have to, but I am following the manual anyway. >If the caliper's siezed, it isn't because of old brake fluid. It is most >likely because they overheated. I dunno, I have drained some old brake fluid that looked pretty nasty. --scott Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." > No can with the possible exception > of the yugo needs brake fluid replaced after just three years. Wrong, I am afraid. I am the wary owner of a car with a Teves system. Try to let that go 10 years and you are looking at serious problems and big bucks in repair. >> On Sun, 13 May 2007 12:35:00 -0400, Nate Nagel <njnagel@roosters.net> >wrote: >> No can with the possible exception >> of the yugo needs brake fluid replaced after just three years. >Wrong, I am afraid. I am the wary owner of a car with a Teves system. Try >to let that >go 10 years and you are looking at serious problems and big bucks in repair. What proportion of all cars on the road use the Teves system? Did the original poster's car use the Teves system? And what the f.ck is the teves system, anyway? <off to google....> The seized pistons were not on my cars. I don't know if the fluid was ever changed on these vehicles or if it was contaminated. > Perhaps if you had changed your fluid occasionally you wouldn't have had > seized caliper pistons? > > nate > > > When I used my cars for work in the Washington DC area brake pads lasted 20 to 25 thousand miles. Depending on the kind of driving you do they can last over 100 thousand miles. I had my last car for 12 years and never replace the fluid or calipers. Fluid does not need to be changed unless it is contaminated. Calipers don't need to be changed unless there is a problem. I have replace a few calipers because of seized pistons, but I don't remember replacing any because of leaks. Because I do my own brake work I don't have the equipment to turn rotors. If they are worn excessively I replace them. Many don't agree with this, but my thinking is if the problem is metal worn from the rotor the solution is not to remove more metal. SignatureMike Walsh West Palm Beach, Florida, U.S.A. > 2004 Accord AT @ 27K miles will be 3 year in June > Original brake parts.... [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > thanks There is no way for anyone on this forum to tell you whether brake pads are needed based on milage alone. Are you asking the question because a mechanic told you the pads and other parts are due for replacement? |
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