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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / May 2007Manual Transmission problems
I just recently bought a 2004 Subaru Outback and have had some problems shifting the car into first and reverse. This only occurs from a stand-still, and it happens about 10% of the time. I took the car in and they told me that I wasn't pressing down hard enough on the clutch. I explained that when I can't get the car into first or reverse, I actually have to let up off the clutch slightly before I can get the car into gear. After keeping the car all day, they found that the first gear synchro was worn and the shift shaft seal was leaking (which they replaced). I am still having some problems getting into first sometimes, although not as often as before. But reverse continues to be a headache. The service crew is now telling me that this is because my car is an All Wheel Drive vehicle and the gear teeth are bigger so sometimes they don't come together easily. They told me that I have to double clutch or shift into third before I shift the car into first or reverse to align the gears. Well, when trying to back out of my parking spot this morning, I tried everything that they said. I double clutched, and I also shifted the car into third 2 times before reverse finally engaged. I have owned 3 other standards and have never had a single occurance in which I couldn't get the car into first or reverse on the first try... I'm just wondering if this is common, or if I'm just being fed excuse after excuse because I'm a girl... Any help would be greatly appreciated! > I just recently bought a 2004 Subaru Outback and have had some > problems shifting the car into first and reverse. This only occurs [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Any help would be greatly appreciated! When you come to a stop, are you leaving the car in gear (but with the clutch depressed) until the car stops dead, then trying to select first or reverse? If you do that, all should be OK. Sometimes if you pull the car into neutral while it is still rolling, you end up with gears spinning down making it hard to shift (you'll be fighting the synchros until they work their magic.) When you can't shift, if you try to force things, do the gears grind, or are you just unable to move the shifter? nate (really wishes you were my next door neighbor so I could just drive your car and see what you were talking about)  Signaturereplace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel > jenn.suga...@gmail.com wrote: > > I just recently bought a 2004 Subaru Outback and have had some [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > > - Show quoted text - When I'm coming to a stop, I generally keep it in gear with the clutch pressed down...then throw it in neutral when I come to a stop... I haven't noticed any grinding really...it's hard for me to explain, but I can move the shifter about half way into gear and it just seems to hit a wall and I can get it to fully pop into gear... On May 24, 11:17 am, jenn.suga...@gmail.com wrote: > > jenn.suga...@gmail.com wrote: > > > I just recently bought a 2004 Subaru Outback and have had some [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Sorry - I meant that I CAN'T get it to fully pop into gear :) >>jenn.suga...@gmail.com wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > but I can move the shifter about half way into gear and it just seems > to hit a wall and I can get it to fully pop into gear... Try this... next time that happens, just keep a light pressure on the shifter and let the clutch out just almost to the point of starting to engage, and slooooowly let it out just a little more (you don't need to give it any gas or even take your foot off the brake pedal for this, you don't really want to load the engine down, just get enough engagement to get the transmission's internals spinning ever so slightly.) If it really is just sitting on top of a dog, it should snick right in. I don't remember ever having to do this with a modern transmission, but it's second nature on my old Stude with a T-10 (completely unsynchronized reverse) and doesn't hurt anything but wears the clutch a little. hope this helps, nate Signaturereplace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel > jenn.suga...@gmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 80 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I really appreciate all the advice! :) I can get the gear to slide in properly if I let up off the clutch pedal a little. And I can also get it to engage 95% of the time if I shift into third before trying to shift into first or reverse...I just don't think that I should HAVE to do any of these things to have a properly operating car that I'm paying lots of money for :) I was hoping to hear that a lot of people have similar problems so that I can safely assume that they are not just taking advantage of me because I'm a girl...The sales manager told me that he has had some difficulties with first and reverse on every single car he has had in the 50 years he's been driving...he basically called me a liar when I told him that I have never had an issue like this before... >>jenn.suga...@gmail.com wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 96 lines] > the 50 years he's been driving...he basically called me a liar when I > told him that I have never had an issue like this before... I'd post this to a Subaru group if you can to see if this is normal or not. I have no experience with them whatsoever. Like I said before I'd consider this normal behavior on a 40 year old T-10 but on a new car like yours, not so much - but I suppose anything is possible, they might have super HD internals that do make them a little more difficult to shift nate Signaturereplace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel > >>jenn.suga...@gmail.com wrote: > >> [quoted text clipped - 108 lines] > replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. > http://members.cox.net/njnagel Thanks so much Nate! I'll definitely give that a shot! > I just recently bought a 2004 Subaru Outback and have had some > problems shifting the car into first and reverse. This only occurs > from a stand-still, and it happens about 10% of the time. > I took the car in and they told me that I wasn't pressing down hard > enough on the clutch. I explained that when I can't get the car into > first or reverse, I actually have to let up off the clutch slightly > before I can get the car into gear. After keeping the car all day, > they found that the first gear synchro was worn and the shift shaft > seal was leaking (which they replaced). > I am still having some problems getting into first sometimes, although > not as often as before. But reverse continues to be a headache. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > clutch or shift into third before I shift the car into first or > reverse to align the gears. > Well, when trying to back out of my parking spot this morning, I tried > everything that they said. I double clutched, and I also shifted the > car into third 2 times before reverse finally engaged. > I have owned 3 other standards and have never had a single occurance > in which I couldn't get the car into first or reverse on the first > try... > > I'm just wondering if this is common, or if I'm just being fed excuse > after excuse because I'm a girl... Every MT car I've ever driven has had some degree of not wanting to go into first or reverse at a dead stop. What you describe seems normal to me. I suppose the worst was an audi I had to drive very briefly, to move from one parking place to another really... A3 I think... small 2 door german market only car some years ago. Damn thing was a pain getting into reverse and was new, being a rental and all. > I just recently bought a 2004 Subaru Outback and have had some > problems shifting the car into first and reverse. This only occurs [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Any help would be greatly appreciated! sounds lame to me. I have an 02 Subaru Legacy, and it drives just like my other manual transmission equipped cars. fwiw, the floormats on mine have a tendancy to slide forwards and lodge under the clutch pedal, with the net result is the clutch pedal is only about 90% down and you think it's 100% down. Ray > jenn.suga...@gmail.com wrote: > > I just recently bought a 2004 Subaru Outback and have had some [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Yeah, I thought about the floor mats and they are secure and never wedged under any of the pedals :) If I had ever had a problem like this with any of my previous MT cars, I would understand that it's typical. I feel like I'm being pushed around so that the 2 month warranty will end and then they don't have to fix it. I have owned a Ford Probe, Mazda MX-6, Mercury Cougar, Honda Civic...all with MT and I have never had any problems at all with any of them... The newest excuse that I was told last night by the sales manager was that they make reverse difficult to engage so that you don't accidently shift it into reverse when you don't mean to... I feel insulted because I've been driving manuals for close to 8 years now! They keep talking to me like I just don't know how to drive it! > The newest excuse that I was told last night by the sales manager was > that they make reverse difficult to engage so that you don't > accidently shift it into reverse when you don't mean to... > > I feel insulted because I've been driving manuals for close to 8 years > now! They keep talking to me like I just don't know how to drive it! Send them a registered letter spelling out the problem. That way you have a legal account of the problem and they can't claim the warranty is over later. > > The newest excuse that I was told last night by the sales manager was > > that they make reverse difficult to engage so that you don't [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > legal account of the problem and they can't claim the warranty is over > later. That's a really great idea! I will definitely do that! I also called Subaru Corporate and asked them if they have ever had any issues like this, and they seemed to agree with me and said that they are going to authorize me to take my car into another Subaru dealership to have it looked at. I also told them that I will be calling them back tomorrow to file a formal complaint against the dealership (there have been several other issues that were minor in comparison to the transmission). I will be meeting with the GM of the dealership tonight to talk about all my issues... > I have owned a Ford Probe, Mazda MX-6, Mercury Cougar, Honda > Civic...all with MT and I have never had any problems at all with any > of them... Probe/MX-6 had some difficulty getting into reverse, so I guess I didn't get the right feel from your description... > I feel insulted because I've been driving manuals for close to 8 years > now! They keep talking to me like I just don't know how to drive it! Is there another Subaru dealership nearby? Maybe you can go there and explain your problems and get you a second opinion. If you're worried they're treating you differently because you're female, find a male friend (and preferably one who knows cars and can drive a stick shift) to come with you and back you up that there's something wrong. How about seeing if they have a used 04 Outback on the lot that you can take for a test drive - if it's normal, the other one should shift the same too. Demand the service manager take your car for a test drive with you in the passenger seat. Purposely park so he has to back out. Ray > jenn.suga...@gmail.com wrote: > > I just recently bought a 2004 Subaru Outback and have had some [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I thought about the floormat, but it's definitely secure and does not wedge under any of the pedals. I have owned several other MT cars - Ford Probe, Mazda MX-6, Honda Civic, and Mercury Cougar - and none of them have ever given me any problems with first or reverse (or any other gear for that matter) :) I just feel like they are trying to keep me coming back until my 2 month warranty is up and then they don't have to fix it. They talk to me like I don't know how to drive the car properly - but I have been driving standards for almost 8 years now! >I just recently bought a 2004 Subaru Outback and have had some >problems shifting the car into first and reverse. This only occurs >from a stand-still, and it happens about 10% of the time. I will say that I have been annoyed at my wife's Outback, which requires the clutch pedal to go down a lot farther than I expected. >I took the car in and they told me that I wasn't pressing down hard >enough on the clutch. I explained that when I can't get the car into >first or reverse, I actually have to let up off the clutch slightly >before I can get the car into gear. After keeping the car all day, >they found that the first gear synchro was worn and the shift shaft >seal was leaking (which they replaced). I hope they changed the clutch as well. If you're going to go through all the trouble to drop the transmission you might as well change the clutch in the process. >I'm just wondering if this is common, or if I'm just being fed excuse >after excuse because I'm a girl... Try bottoming the clutch way out. Also ask if they can adjust it so the friction point on the clutch is a little closer-in. The clutch on the Outback has a really long throw but I think you're being fed excuses too. --scott Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." > <jenn.suga...@gmail.com> wrote: > >I just recently bought a 2004 Subaru Outback and have had some [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > -- > "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." I always press the clutch all the way to the floor when changing gears...that's the way I have always driven standards... So, when they first told me that it was just happening because I wasn't pressing down hard enough on the clutch, I was insulted. They didn't replace the clutch - just the first gear synchro and the shift shaft seal... >> <jenn.suga...@gmail.com> wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > They didn't replace the clutch - just the first gear synchro and the > shift shaft seal... Hmmm.... I'm not going to badmouth the people that did the work because I wasn't there, and because maybe they found that the clutch still had 95% of its lining left BUT... if someone had replaced a synchro in my car, which would 99.44% of the time involve removing the transmission from the car, I would either want a new clutch and pressure plate just "while you're in there" or else a good explanation of why it was not replaced (i.e. "it looked like brand new.") nate Signaturereplace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel > >> <jenn.suga...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > > nate Amen to that! If you've gotta pull the tranny, for whatever reason, putting a fresh clutch package in before reassembly ought to be be SOP unless the one that's in it currently is thoroughly inspected and found to be in next-best-thing-to-brand-new condition. Reasonably cheap insurance against near-term failure, doncha know... (Of course, this is someone talking who drives a car that only requires about $45 in parts, 15 minutes, and 8 extra bolts (all easily accessible once the tranny is dropped for whatever else is being done) R&Red to replace the clutch plate, pilot bearing, and throwout bearing) SignatureDon Bruder - dakidd@sonic.net - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist, or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow" somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd> for more info >>> <jenn.suga...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > nate How about "we don't give away parts or do free work". Is that a good enough explanation? >>>> <jenn.suga...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > How about "we don't give away parts or do free work". Is that a good > enough explanation? I'd gladly pay the $100 parts and half hour labor or whatever it is to put off the much larger bill later on when it really does need replaced. Once you've got the bellhousing off it's what, six bolts to R&R the clutch usually? nate Signaturereplace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel >>>>> <jenn.suga...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] > > nate I agree. But what does the costumer want? > I just recently bought a 2004 Subaru Outback and have had some > problems shifting the car into first and reverse. This only occurs [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Any help would be greatly appreciated! I have been driving manual shift cars for 30+ years. All of them could hang up when shifting into reverse. Since reverse is not synchronized, this is to be expected. The solution was always to shift into neutral, let out the clutch, put it back in again, and re-try reverse. Nine times out of ten, that would do it. Occassionally, it would take another try, or even a third. The Outback may be be prone to this if the reverse gears are cut straighter than other cars. I have also seen many people have trouble shifting into first, but always because they didn't stop before shifting, and were pushing against the synchros. They struggle, and of course, the car is slowing, and then the shifter slips into first, but they don't relate speed to the shifter action. They think it just finally worked. If the first gear synchro was worn out, perhaps the transmission design makes it more difficult to shift into first. A clutch that is difficult to fully disengage wouldn't help. Dan (This account is not used for email.) |
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