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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / June 2007Engine Died
I need a wizard to suggest what to expect when I reach my daughter's house in a couple of days. Her report was, "Dad, we were driving the '96 Nissan Quest and nearing home when the car just died. Jumping it produces just a couple of clicks from the starter, not an engine turnover at all. I've cleaned the battery terminals, checked the fluid levels, and can't get it to start. Can you help, so I don't have to tow it?" I can't think what it might be, and could use some ideas. On Jun 4, 10:35 am, "speedo262" <stevegstra...@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote: > I need a wizard to suggest what to expect when I reach my daughter's house > in a couple of days. Her report was, "Dad, we were driving the '96 Nissan [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > to start. Can you help, so I don't have to tow it?" I can't think what > it might be, and could use some ideas. Did the battery die? Do the lights come on bright? On Jun 4, 8:35 am, "speedo262" <stevegstra...@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote: > I need a wizard to suggest what to expect when I reach my daughter's house > in a couple of days. Her report was, "Dad, we were driving the '96 Nissan [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > to start. Can you help, so I don't have to tow it?" I can't think what > it might be, and could use some ideas. Sounds to me like the alternator may have given out, and the car died when the battery ran down. It is not as easy to jumpstart a car with a virtually empty battery as an inexperienced person may think. You have to leave the cables connected for a few minutes or so until the dead battery soaks up at least a little bit of a charge, or you will get symptoms like you (they?) describe, where the battery has enough juice to pull in the solenoid (click), but not enough to actually turn the engine. Furthermore, jumpstarting a car with a dead battery and a dead alternator isn't very helpful, because even if you do get it running it will only die again when whatever half-a.s charge you got into the battery runs out. This is, of course, guess work. However, if I'm on the right track, you should be able to get the car home by removing the battery and (unless you are setup for this yourself) bringing it to an Autozone- type place to be charged and tested. If this solves the problem (temporarily of course), then odds are almost certain the alternator needs to be replaced. Good luck. Harry > On Jun 4, 8:35 am, "speedo262" <stevegstra...@nospam.hotmail.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > Harry Harry - a good jumper cable should be able to start any dead-battery car. I heard of cheapy thin ones not doing the job and requiring some time to recharge the battery, but a 2-guage should do the trick immediately. > Harry - a good jumper cable should be able to start any dead-battery > car. I heard of cheapy thin ones not doing the job and requiring some > time to recharge the battery, but a 2-guage should do the trick > immediately. You'd think, but I've seen it. An empty battery is like a huge sinkhole, taking all the current the good car's alternator can put out. In extreme cases (high load accessories, dead battery, try the starter right away) you can actually damage the good car's alternator ("blown diode") by overloading it in this way. Or so I hear. Harry > > Harry - a good jumper cable should be able to start any dead-battery > > car. I heard of cheapy thin ones not doing the job and requiring some [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Harry I know its wrong, but I always just connect straight from battery to battery, red to red, black to black. Can't see why this is a problem, personally. >>> Harry - a good jumper cable should be able to start any dead-battery >>> car. I heard of cheapy thin ones not doing the job and requiring some [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > battery, red to red, black to black. Can't see why this is a problem, > personally. When a battery discharges and charges, it gives off hydrogen gas. Get a spark on the cable when you connect it and the top can blow off the battery, either one. Been there, had it happen with a full charged battery that just came off a highway run. Pieces of battery went through the hood and I got covered in acid with cuts to my eyebrow from a chunk. I was lucky, snow was right there to dive my face into and water was 10 feet away. I also have seen dead batteries act like a sink needing several minutes charge via the boosters. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile... Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) Thanks, gents. As described, the lights come on, but I'm not sure whether that's with the jumper cables connected or not. Let me see if I can get the battery somewhere prior to my getting up there this weekend to determine if it's drained dry but rechargeable. With each kid I tried to provide the basics of mechanical knowledge so that they would know how to co-exist with an expensive piece of mechanicall hardware. The only thing I really taught them was when in trouble - call Dad. Thanks, gents. As described, the lights come on, but I'm not sure whether that's with the jumper cables connected or not. Let me see if I can get the battery somewhere prior to my getting up there this weekend to determine if it's drained dry but rechargeable. With each kid I tried to provide the basics of mechanical knowledge so that they would know how to co-exist with an expensive piece of mechanicall hardware. The only thing I really taught them was when in trouble - call Dad. Thanks, gents. As described, the lights come on, but I'm not sure whether that's with the jumper cables connected or not. Let me see if I can get the battery somewhere prior to my getting up there this weekend to determine if it's drained dry but rechargeable. With each kid I tried to provide the basics of mechanical knowledge so that they would know how to co-exist with an expensive piece of mechanicall hardware. The only thing I really taught them was when in trouble - call Dad. > Thanks, gents. As described, the lights come on, but I'm not sure whether > that's with the jumper cables connected or not. Let me see if I can get [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > mechanicall hardware. The only thing I really taught them was when in > trouble - call Dad. One thing to remember is there are two ends on battery cables.... Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile... Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) > When a battery discharges and charges, it gives off hydrogen gas. Get a > spark on the cable when you connect it and the top can blow off the > battery, either one. I'm reasonably sure they only generate H2 when they're being charged. Actually, I believe it's when they're being charged beyond full charge (or at a point very close to full charge). > Been there, had it happen with a full charged battery that just came off > a highway run. Pieces of battery went through the hood and I got > covered in acid with cuts to my eyebrow from a chunk. I was lucky, snow > was right there to dive my face into and water was 10 feet away. It's possible you had a bad battery. I had one start fuming once from an internal short; fortunately, it didn't explode or spew. > I also have seen dead batteries act like a sink needing several minutes > charge via the boosters. I find it much preferable to let the dead battery charge from the good system for a few minutes before attempting to start the dead car. I like the idea that, unless the dead battery is very very dead (i.e. defective), this is taking most of the load off the good system. I also don't like the idea that the slightest movement of the cables during a high-current starting attempt could make sparks near the newly-charging dead battery. >> When a battery discharges and charges, it gives off hydrogen gas. Get >> a spark on the cable when you connect it and the top can blow off the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Actually, I believe it's when they're being charged beyond full charge > (or at a point very close to full charge). As soon as they start bubbling, they are venting H2. This is very early in a charge on a dead battery. A dead one from say a left on light also will start to charge back up as soon as the power is shut off. Then the car might be dead from a bad connection, so the battery could be charged recently even so the boost can spark there too. >> Been there, had it happen with a full charged battery that just came >> off a highway run. Pieces of battery went through the hood and I got [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > It's possible you had a bad battery. I had one start fuming once from > an internal short; fortunately, it didn't explode or spew. Battery was fine, just fully and freshly charged from a high speed 4 hour run when the spark happened at that end of the cable, forget the dead battery end... >> I also have seen dead batteries act like a sink needing several >> minutes charge via the boosters. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > the idea that the slightest movement of the cables during a high-current > starting attempt could make sparks near the newly-charging dead battery. Yup, so I keep one connection over on the engine block to lower the odds. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile... Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) >> When a battery discharges and charges, it gives off hydrogen gas. Get >> a spark on the cable when you connect it and the top can blow off the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Actually, I believe it's when they're being charged beyond full charge > (or at a point very close to full charge). Nope, just any time they're being charged. And most batteries *always* have a bit of hydrogen in them at any given time, even if they've been sitting for a while. > I find it much preferable to let the dead battery charge from the good > system for a few minutes before attempting to start the dead car. Yes, this is the best method to use, both for the battery and for the car providing the jump. Just be careful DISconnecting the cables, as a spark then can cause a battery explosion just as easily as when first connecting the cables, that is why the last connection made and the first connection disconnected should be at the engine block of one of the cars, far away from the battery itself. > I know its wrong, but I always just connect straight from battery to > battery, red to red, black to black. Can't see why this is a problem, > personally. I often do the same, but perhaps I'll think twice in the future after reading Mike's remark. The inner workings of electricity often fail to conform with "common sense". If in doubt, best to research the facts yourself rather than relying on some dude on the internet who goes around passing off speculation as fact and "can't see why this is a problem." Harry > I know its wrong, but I always just connect straight from battery to > battery, red to red, black to black. Can't see why this is a problem, > personally. Because the spark that occurs when you make the final connection is RIGHT next to the hydrogen gas coming out of the battery.... >> Harry - a good jumper cable should be able to start any dead-battery >> car. I heard of cheapy thin ones not doing the job and requiring some [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >Harry Make sure that yoy have a good connection cetween the battery cables and the battery connectors. Good place for corrosion to give you a high resistance connection. Jesse |
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