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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / July 2007Fix-a-Flat Makes a Tire Un-patchable?
A day after I used the Fix-a-flat to drive home, I took the tire to Costco (where I bought) to have it patched. After the clerk prepared paper work to patch the tire, I thought I should let them know that I used fix-a-flat as the label suggests. As soon as she heard fix-a- flat, she said the tire is no longer patchable because the patch won't stick. Does this make sense? I read the label on the spay can, and nowhere it mentions a tire becoming unpatchable after using the product. > A day after I used the Fix-a-flat to drive home, I took the tire to > Costco (where I bought) to have it patched. After the clerk prepared [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > nowhere it mentions a tire becoming unpatchable after using the > product. I have used this product for emergencies on a number of occasions, both in my and my familys personal cars, and for friends. I have never had anyone give me this story before. They have wanted to know if Fix A Flat had been used BEFORE they start the repair because the inflatant in this product has been a flammable hydrocarbon gas. Demounting a tire containing this sort of gas needs to be done somewhat carefully. There may be patching systems which would not respond well unless the tire were dismounted, cleaned, and properly patched, but I feel you did not get a very good answer. I am also thinking that they just didn't want to clean the inside of the tire. Maybe it is a lot of extra work and maybe they would want too much money for that or are just plain lazy (I have no idea). Either way, patching a tire is very easy (witha plug) and you should always just do it yourself. Suppose the tire has steel mesh (or whatever it is called) and Fix A Flat flammable hydrocarbon stuff still inside of the tire.The tire plug ream tool is made of steel and usually it takes a lot of muscle power to use that tool and it could cause a spark.Even if the tire is flat, is there a chance it might explode? A few months ago I was at a used tire shop getting a good used tire on a wheel for a spare wheel/tire.The guy's aircompressor wouldn't seat the bead of the tire.He squirted some starting fluid inside of the tire and then he threw a lit match at the tire.BOOM! instant bead seat.Would it be dangerous if I ever need to have that tire plugged or removed? cuhulin > A few months ago I was at a used tire > shop getting a good used tire on a wheel for a spare wheel/tire.The > guy's aircompressor wouldn't seat the bead of the tire.He squirted some > starting fluid inside of the tire and then he threw a lit match at the > tire.BOOM! instant bead seat. WOW!!! Erik >> A few months ago I was at a used tire >> shop getting a good used tire on a wheel for a spare wheel/tire.The [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Erik That's the way Mexicans do it, down in Baja After reading a few replies here, I called Costco Tire Center and asked for clarification if there is a written document stating that they won't repair tires with Fix-a-Flat. The manager went and took out some manual. It seems that the manual specifically cites "toxicity of the chemicals used in fix-a-flat or similar products" as the reason for not having their employees repair the tire. scott21230@gmail.com wrote in article <1183059013.419374.23400@u2g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>... > I am also thinking that they just didn't want to clean the inside of > the tire. Maybe it is a lot of extra work and maybe they would want > too much money for that or are just plain lazy (I have no idea). > Either way, patching a tire is very easy (witha plug) and you should > always just do it yourself. In some states - Maine being one - a tire with an externally-inserted plug is reason to fail a vehicle in the annual state inspection program (PMVI). > scott21230@gmail.com wrote in article > <1183059013.419374.23400@u2g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>... [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > In some states - Maine being one - a tire with an externally-inserted plug > is reason to fail a vehicle in the annual state inspection program (PMVI). That's just crazy. Almost as crazy as states that have NO safety inspection (California, for example). You can have no brakes, holes in the floorboards, spring-mounts broken, and one headlamp, but if the exhaust is clean enough, you can drive it in California. :-/ Steve <no@spam.thanks> wrote in article <evCdnfDv8b0b_xjbnZ2dnUVZ_u3inZ2d@texas.net>... > > scott21230@gmail.com wrote in article > > <1183059013.419374.23400@u2g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>... [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > the floorboards, spring-mounts broken, and one headlamp, but if the > exhaust is clean enough, you can drive it in California. :-/ Show me a non-inspection state where the accidents-caused-by-defective-equipment rate is higher than an inspection state.............. They are few and far between. There are only 18 states in the USA that currently have any sort of PMVI program in place. Does that mean that 32 states have significantly higher accident rates attributable to faulty equipment? Don't think so................. > Steve <no@spam.thanks> wrote in article > <evCdnfDv8b0b_xjbnZ2dnUVZ_u3inZ2d@texas.net>... [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > Don't think so................. I do. What doesn't show up (and will never show up properly in statistics) is sufficient documentation of correlation. Show me an accident caused by non-fucntional brake lights (and there are PLENTY) that actually gets attributed to that fact in the final statistics. Just doesn't happen. Same for dead turn signals, failed suspension components, brakes that pull to one side in a panic stop, etc. etc. etc. Sure, if people die and lawsuits are threatened it MAY show up, but in most cases it never makes it to the appropriate level of awareness. It just gets thrown in the hopper as another accident of indeterminate cause. Steve <no@spam.thanks> wrote in article <Fb2dnbeaktZlqRTbnZ2dnUVZ_r6vnZ2d@texas.net>... > > Steve <no@spam.thanks> wrote in article > > <evCdnfDv8b0b_xjbnZ2dnUVZ_u3inZ2d@texas.net>... [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > most cases it never makes it to the appropriate level of awareness. It > just gets thrown in the hopper as another accident of indeterminate cause. You missed the point. While your list of possible accident causes is reasonable and plausible, you fail to show that the problem is worse in states without PMVI versus states with PMVI programs. Virtually ALL states have provisions for ticketing faulty equipment when observed. Stop in front of a police cruiser with a brake light out, and you are liable to get a faulty equipment tag for it - regardless of the state you are in.....PMVI or NO PMVI. AND.......what state(s) offer the same guarantee on PMVI as they require shop owners to offer on their own work? In most states, you can get a state inspection sticker, drive down the road to the next corner and have a bulb blow out, and you can be ticketed for it - even after spending a substantial amount for "inspection". How did that inspection aleviate the problem? >>>Does that mean that 32 states have significantly higher accident rates >>>attributable to faulty equipment? [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > You missed the point. No, I just don't think that it is a point at all. :-) > While your list of possible accident causes is reasonable and plausible, > you fail to show that the problem is worse in states without PMVI versus > states with PMVI programs. Only because they're never tracked. If they WERE accurately tracked, you WOULD see a much higher rate in non-inspection states. > Virtually ALL states have provisions for ticketing faulty equipment when > observed. But be honest- that never happens unless an officer is absolutely bored to the point of tears, or already has you stopped for another violation (although it could cause you to be stopped for 3 mph over instead of the usual 10 over, I suppose). > AND.......what state(s) offer the same guarantee on PMVI as they require > shop owners to offer on their own work? Guarantee? For what? This makes no sense. An inspection program is not a repair program, you have to take the car elsewhere for repairs (or do it yourself). > In most states, you can get a state inspection sticker, drive down the road > to the next corner and have a bulb blow out, and you can be ticketed for it > - even after spending a substantial amount for "inspection". True, but you can't continue to operate a car indefinitely with only one front brake working, a seized-up (inoperative) emergency brake cable, the floorboards rusted through, a horn that won't blow, 3 inches of slop in the steering linkage, and wipers that haven't moved since Reagan was president. Trust me- I've driven a lot of miles in both inspection and non-inspection states, and the inspection states have nowhere NEAR the number of obviously unsafe shitheaps on the highways. >>>>Does that mean that 32 states have significantly higher accident rates >>>>attributable to faulty equipment? [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] >non-inspection states, and the inspection states have nowhere NEAR the >number of obviously unsafe shitheaps on the highways. You are just seeing what you want to see. I've driven in both kinds of states and have not seen any difference whatsoever. If there was any benefit to the inspection programs it would be possible to demonstrate it statistically. There simply is no benefit from the programs other then to line the pockets of politicians and inspection station owners. Steve <no@spam.thanks> wrote in article <Ee6dnSpZ_IyMKRfbnZ2dnUVZ_gGdnZ2d@texas.net>... > > AND.......what state(s) offer the same guarantee on PMVI as they require > > shop owners to offer on their own work? > > Guarantee? For what? This makes no sense. An inspection program is not a > repair program, you have to take the car elsewhere for repairs (or do it > yourself). Actually, 15 of the 18 state PMVI programs out there are decentralized - meaning that individual repair shops are licensed by the state to do inspections..........and, some might argue, use the state PMVI program to generate business. Any inspection station can - and WILL - do repairs on the components they feel do not pass their standards in the many gray areas of PMVI regulations. You REALLY ought to read up on a subject before you bring up a point that can be turned on you. > > In most states, you can get a state inspection sticker, drive down the road > > to the next corner and have a bulb blow out, and you can be ticketed for it [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > in the steering linkage, and wipers that haven't moved since Reagan was > president. Interestingly, the horn in my wife's car hasn't worked in the five years we've owned it. There is a fuse-blowing, short circuit that I am simply too busy to chase down. While it seems as though some people cannot leave their driveway without first blowing their horn, neither one of us really NEEDS a horn to drive and the car has passed inspection with flying colors every year. BTW - The horn on my truck works okay - at least it did last time I blew it which was several months ago. > Trust me- I've driven a lot of miles in both inspection and > non-inspection states, and the inspection states have nowhere NEAR the > number of obviously unsafe shitheaps on the highways. Before semi-retiring, I used to drive 50K+ each and every year, all over the Northeast US and Canadian Maritimes , and I could observe no discernable differences in the various mechanical states of the cars being driven on a particular state's highways......in spite of my 40+ years in the automotive service and repair industry - including holding state inspection licenses in two states. Of course, you may have some sort of x-ray powers to "see" a loose idler arm or a frozen emergency brake cable. \ > Interestingly, the horn in my wife's car hasn't worked in the five years > we've owned it. > > There is a fuse-blowing, short circuit that I am simply too busy to chase > down. Then its illegal to operate and should be off the road. You just proved my point. How many people actually think to check the safety stickers on the windshields of their vehicles to see when those stickers need to be renewed? I almost never do.The sticker on the windshield of my old van expired in May of this year.I went to the Wal Mart store food department yesterday afternoon.I had also meant to head on over to Robertson's auto repair shop and let Mike put a new sticker on there, but I forgot about it.Oh well, maybe next time I need to go to the food store, I might think about it. cuhulin Get one of those strap on horn buttons from www.jcwhitney.com and wire it directly to your horn.Buy a decent horn from J.C.Whitney too.Get a LOUDDDDDD horn. cuhulin cuhulin@webtv.net wrote in article <23931-468BCC42-93@storefull-3251.bay.webtv.net>... > Get one of those strap on horn buttons from www.jcwhitney.com and > wire it directly to your horn.Buy a decent horn from J.C.Whitney too.Get > a LOUDDDDDD horn. > cuhulin If the short was in the horn actuating mechanism, your suggestion would make sense......I haven't yet diagnosed it. You can't - or shouldn't - wire a horn button directly to the horn. The horn draws a large amount of amperage - which is why the automotive engineers originally designed things with a horn relay......... .........meaning a complete re-wire would call for wire, a button, a relay and horn assembly along with miscellaneous clips. If it did, indeed, need an auxiliary horn button, I would go to my FLAPS before ordering it mail order.......especially from JC Gyp-me! I suspect that the former owner simply ripped out a car phone, and left as exposed wire inside the console. I'll get around to it some day. Steve <no@spam.thanks> wrote in article <jKSdnVa_jpMEXhbbnZ2dnUVZ_j6dnZ2d@texas.net>... > \ > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Then its illegal to operate and should be off the road. You just proved > my point. Having been around, inside, and under as many cars as I have been in the last 40+ years, I would bet that I could walk through ANY shopping center parking lot and find somewhere between 25 and 50 percent of the cars with legitimate inspection stickers that have at least one item wrong with them - according to state regulations - that could be interpreted as a cause for rejection. Do you believe they should ALL be off the road? Do you actually believe that ALL cars have one front and one rear wheel pulled for inspection in states requiring it? If you do, then I have some oceanfront property in Kentucky that you'll be interested in. Park outside an "Official Inspection Station" in ANY state for an afternoon, and see how quickly stickers are issued.....much quicker than the prescribed complete inspection would suggest. ALL STATE INSPECTION PROGRAMS ARE A FARCE - BASED ON POLITICS AND MONEY.......PERIOD. "Advisory boards" are composed of the very people who will benefit financially - independent repair shops. When I said buy a loud horn and wire it directley, of course I meant the relay should always be used.I have bought some things (including a 1960s four cylinder Mercedes Benz diesel engine) from J.C.Whitney company before over the years.I don't think J.C.Whitney company ever gyped me.I reccomend J.C.Whitney company to everybody. cuhulin > Steve <no@spam.thanks> wrote in article > <jKSdnVa_jpMEXhbbnZ2dnUVZ_j6dnZ2d@texas.net>... [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Do you believe they should ALL be off the road? There should be a mechanism to systematically REMOVE them from the road if not repaired. IE, an inspection process. > Do you actually believe that ALL cars have one front and one rear wheel > pulled for inspection in states requiring it? Dumb requirement. But I've seen cars failed for excessive pull during the stopping test, and that's a VERY good thing. I've seen cars failed for non-op parking brakes, and that's a very good thing. I've seen cars failed for non-operative wipers, and that's a very good thing. > Park outside an "Official Inspection Station" in ANY state for an > afternoon, and see how quickly stickers are issued..... You act like I don't sit through 4 vehicle inspections (I own 4 roadworthy cars) every year. I know exactly what goes on. > ALL STATE INSPECTION PROGRAMS ARE A FARCE Not all of them, and there should be one in every state. Steve <no@spam.thanks> wrote in article <x6SdncRP3Ki8sBDbnZ2dnUVZ_u6rnZ2d@texas.net>... > > Steve <no@spam.thanks> wrote in article > > <jKSdnVa_jpMEXhbbnZ2dnUVZ_j6dnZ2d@texas.net>... > > > >>\ > > ALL STATE INSPECTION PROGRAMS ARE A FARCE > > Not all of them, and there should be one in every state. Which brings us back to the original challenge I posed..... Show me documentable evidence that the 18 remaining states that have PMVI have better safety records - fewer crashes attributable to faulty equipment - than the other 32 states that DO NOT have PMVI programs. You can't do it, because there is no substance to it....... That fact in itself is one reason why many states dropped their PMVI programs to begin with. There was no proof that they actually DID decrease accidents attributable to defective equipment. >> Steve <no@spam.thanks> wrote in article >> <jKSdnVa_jpMEXhbbnZ2dnUVZ_j6dnZ2d@texas.net>... [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >There should be a mechanism to systematically REMOVE them from the road >if not repaired. IE, an inspection process. Why? So far you have not demonstrated the that kinds of things inspections "fix" are responsible for any accidents in the real world anymore then just random things breaking on cars that were inspected and passed. >> Do you actually believe that ALL cars have one front and one rear wheel >> pulled for inspection in states requiring it? [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >Not all of them, and there should be one in every state. >\ >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Then its illegal to operate and should be off the road. You just proved >my point. No, you just disproved your point. If it's safe, which it is, to operate, but is illegal because of the law, then it's a stupid law. >No, you just disproved your point. If it's safe, which it is, to >operate, but is illegal because of the law, then it's a stupid law. It is not safe. There are many situations where being able to blast a horn will prevent an accident. I guess you'd rather just have the accident. > >No, you just disproved your point. If it's safe, which it is, to > >operate, but is illegal because of the law, then it's a stupid law. > > It is not safe. There are many situations where being able to blast a horn > will prevent an accident. I guess you'd rather just have the accident. yup, after reading that post, I remember using my horn twice that same day, to warn off vehicles drifting into my lane. Maybe AC lives somewhere where the drivers aren't as completely f.cking moronic and oblivious as here... nate N8N <njnagel@hotmail.com> wrote in article <1183985962.516063.134790@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>... > yup, after reading that post, I remember using my horn twice that same > day, to warn off vehicles drifting into my lane. Maybe AC lives > somewhere where the drivers aren't as completely f.cking moronic and > oblivious as here... You COULD have simply backed off a bit to allow for any possibilities...... It's called "Defensive Driving"......and it works anywhere in the world. The ONLY time I can remember wishing the horn in the Camaro worked was at a stoplight where the guy in front of me was engrossed in reading a road map, dialing a cell phone, or some such thing when the light turned green....... ......and, I cannot remember the last time I used the working horn in my truck - other than to tap it to say "Hi !" to someone. >N8N <njnagel@hotmail.com> wrote in article ><1183985962.516063.134790@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>... [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> somewhere where the drivers aren't as completely f.cking moronic and >> oblivious as here... >You COULD have simply backed off a bit to allow for any possibilities...... >It's called "Defensive Driving"......and it works anywhere in the world. It's not always possible. Example: bus in front of the car in front of me stops to pick up passengers. Lady in the car in front of me gets the brilliant idea of backing up so she could pull around the bus. I hit the horn. She hits the brakes and avoids hitting me. What would you have done? Put your car in reverse too? Driven into a parked car to the right, or into the path of cars doing 45 in the lane to the left? Just let her hit you? Sometimes the best tactic is to shout "WAKE THE f.ck UP!" and a horn is the only way unless you have an amazing set of lungs. AZ Nomad <aznomad.2@PremoveOBthisOX.COM> wrote in article <slrnf95jgl.mc6.aznomad.2@ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net>... > >It's called "Defensive Driving"......and it works anywhere in the world. > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Sometimes the best tactic is to shout "WAKE THE f.ck UP!" and a horn is the > only way unless you have an amazing set of lungs. First of all, I don't drive in a city environment more than a couple of times per year, but I think you're REALLY reaching on that one. You have described a very unlikely situation. If there are parked cars on one side, and traffic approaching at 45 MPH on the other precluding ME from pulling out and going around her, exactly HOW would SHE expect to "...pull around the bus..."? If she's THAT dumb, let her hit me. I can fix my own car for a fraction of what her insurance company would need to pay me. What would YOU do in a city that has outlawed the use of horns as a form of "noise pollution"? >>No, you just disproved your point. If it's safe, which it is, to >>operate, but is illegal because of the law, then it's a stupid law. > >It is not safe. There are many situations where being able to blast a horn >will prevent an accident. I guess you'd rather just have the accident. I use my horn about once a decade and that's just to wake up someone in front of me. To worry about whether one is working before registering a vehicle is just stupid. >> scott21230@gmail.com wrote in article >> <1183059013.419374.23400@u2g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>... [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >the floorboards, spring-mounts broken, and one headlamp, but if the >exhaust is clean enough, you can drive it in California. :-/ There is no evidence that inspection programs accomplish anything other then lining the pockets of politicians and repair shop owners. >A day after I used the Fix-a-flat to drive home, I took the tire to >Costco (where I bought) to have it patched. After the clerk prepared [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >nowhere it mentions a tire becoming unpatchable after using the >product. The other issue is that many of the fix-a-flat products are explosive, and have a tendency to blow up and kill people who are working on tires. As a result, most folks won't even TOUCH tires that have that stuff in them. --scott  Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." > The other issue is that many of the fix-a-flat products are explosive, > and have a tendency to blow up and kill people who are working on tires. > As a result, most folks won't even TOUCH tires that have that stuff in > them. > --scott The gases are not toxic, but the propane (or mixed) ones are potentially flammable. This poses NO problem, so long as the goober who is demounting the tire takes adequate precautions...mainly, do not smoke or have an open ignition source when demounting such a tire. Remove the freaking valve core and let the pressure out. If you are paranoid, flush it a couple of times with compressor air. DO NOT SMOKE as if the ACS and common work protocols would not have already addressed this issue. The chances that you would have a problem even if you didnt follow the protocol are small, but it is total BS that the use of Fix A Flat makes a tire unpatchable... >>The other issue is that many of the fix-a-flat products are explosive, >>and have a tendency to blow up and kill people who are working on tires. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > the protocol are small, but it is total BS that the use of Fix A Flat makes > a tire unpatchable... It does, however, piss off the tire guys, because to do a proper repair they need to clean all the goo out of the inside of the tire so a) the patch will adhere correctly and b) the tire will balance correctly. nate Signaturereplace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel > It does, however, piss off the tire guys, because to do a proper repair > they need to clean all the goo out of the inside of the tire so a) the > patch will adhere correctly and b) the tire will balance correctly. > > nate Im sure it does piss them off, Nate... Having to report to an unemployment office, and apply for food stamps, might piss them off more. It is not a technological problem. It is an attitude problem. >>It does, however, piss off the tire guys, because to do a proper repair >>they need to clean all the goo out of the inside of the tire so a) the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > It is not a technological problem. It is an attitude problem. I guess my point was I wouldn't get all bent out of shape if a tire guy suggested not to use fix-a-flat except in dire emergencies because of the above. And they might charge you 2-3x the normal rate if you do, because of the extra time involved. That's not an attitude problem, that's just the economics of the situation. nate Signaturereplace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel > I guess my point was I wouldn't get all bent out of shape if a tire guy > suggested not to use fix-a-flat except in dire emergencies because of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > nate I understand. A tire guy might prefer that you not use such a product but if you dont like green apples, you'd better not shake the tree. The economics also say that, if your wife or daughter come out into a parking lot and find a flat tire, it is probably cheap to use Fix A Flat and drive to a competent tire repair center than to stay there and call a wrecker, or a tire service, etc. It is simple BS that a tire that has been inflated with Fix A Flat is not patchable. Some tires, regardless, are not patchable, but the use of a temperary inflation product does not make them unrepairable. What did Costco want? To sell a new tire? If so, that is blatant fraud. Nothing against you, Nate, and I understand your point of view. > Some tires, regardless, are not patchable, but the use of a temperary OOPS.. please correct that to be "temporary"....a typo Blame that typo on your keyboard like I always do. Costco is a Chinese commie based outfit. Many years ago some cars came equiped from the factoy with an air compressor mounted somewhere down by the transmission/clutch assembly and there was a length of air hose stored in the trunk of the cars.There was another little shift lever on the transmission/clutch assembly.Simply have the engine running and the transmission in neutral gear, attatch the air hose and flip that little lever and Presto, air up the tires. cuhulin > The economics also say that, if your wife or daughter come > out into a parking lot and find a flat tire, it is probably cheap to use Fix > A Flat and drive to a competent tire repair center than to stay there and call a > wrecker, or a tire service, etc. I would think that simple economics would dictate that you use the spare tire. Aww what's that guy's name, Granville? Granville and Dawg.I used to read his articles in auto magazines years ago.I think he isn't around anymore.He used to go way out in the boonies with his vehicles.He told some really good stories about how to fix things. cuhulin > > The economics also say that, if your wife or daughter come > > out into a parking lot and find a flat tire, it is probably cheap to use Fix [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I would think that simple economics would dictate that you use the > spare tire. You have a wife or daughter, and suggest that;>) On Jun 29, 10:37 am, <H...@nospam.nix> wrote: > <scott21...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > You have a wife or daughter, and suggest that;>) My girlfriend knows how to change a tire, and has done so by herself. she also knows how to check oil and also will turn on the heater when the temp. gauge gets too close to "H." I don't know that she's ever had to do it, but I would assume that she knows that when the oil light comes on it's time to stop the engine, NOW. In fact, other than her habit of abusing tires, clutches, and motor mounts (apparently she watched me a little too closely when I was teaching her how to drive a stickshift,) she's a pretty good driver. Perhaps I should remind myself of this thread the next time she really pisses me off. nate >> > The economics also say that, if your wife or daughter come >> > out into a parking lot and find a flat tire, it is probably cheap to use [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >You have a wife or daughter, and suggest that;>) My 70 year old mother can change a flat tire, why can't your wife?? My wife can rebuild engines and transmissions, again, why can't your wife?? No big secret for working on cars, just have to get them interested in not being taken when they're getting the oil changed... SteveL On Jun 29, 5:56 pm, pak...@not.a.real.address.com wrote: > ><scott21...@gmail.com> wrote in message > >news:1183123958.736507.138910@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com... [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Good for your mother but not every woman (or even man) have enough strength to apply 125 Newton-meters of torque with a 10" wrench, and that's assuming the locknuts were properly torqued and no rust. Removing a wheel and placing it into a trunk is also a challenge for some. Rebuilding an engine in a properly equipped shop may not require as much muscle strength. Teach them how to change a flat tire.Get them to their car, or your car, and let them remove and then replace one of the wheels/tires.Nothing beats OJT. cuhulin > On Jun 29, 5:56 pm, pak...@not.a.real.address.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > some. Rebuilding an engine in a properly equipped shop may not require > as much muscle strength. No excuse. If they can't turn the wrench when they practice-change a tire (EVERYONE does that when they get a new car, right???), they can buy a longer wrench or a cross wrench at WalMart and throw it in the trunk. With a cross wrench, I can put more torque on a lugnut than an impact wrench can, and I'm no bodybuilder. I use a 4 way/cross wrench and I keep a long cheater pipe in my van.Sometimes the tire shops put the lug nuts on too tight with their air impact tools.I only use the cheater pipe to remove lug nuts that are too tight, never to tighten them back up. cuhulin >No excuse. If they can't turn the wrench when they practice-change a >tire (EVERYONE does that when they get a new car, right???), they can >buy a longer wrench or a cross wrench at WalMart and throw it in the >trunk. With a cross wrench, I can put more torque on a lugnut than an >impact wrench can, and I'm no bodybuilder. THAT is the real solution. Rather than buying a can of Fix-A-Flat, buy a decent cross-wrench. It is MUCH easier to change tires with a decent wrench than with the crappy things that come free with the car. A better jack wouldn't hurt to have in the trunk either. --scott Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." >>I guess my point was I wouldn't get all bent out of shape if a tire guy >>suggested not to use fix-a-flat except in dire emergencies because of [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > wrecker, > or a tire service, etc. Really? Both my wife and daughter know how to use a SPARE TIRE. > It is simple BS that a tire that has been inflated with Fix A Flat is not > patchable. It may be patchable with a lot of extra cleaning, but it will never balance correctly again. Fix-A-Flat is a decent "dire emergency" tool, but I wouldn't ever plan on using that tire again, at least not long-term. Some fix-a-flat formulas tend to corrode rims pretty badly, too. > It may be patchable with a lot of extra cleaning, but it will never > balance correctly again. Fix-A-Flat is a decent "dire emergency" tool, > but I wouldn't ever plan on using that tire again, at least not long-term. > > Some fix-a-flat formulas tend to corrode rims pretty badly, too. Fix A Flat formulas that have water in them can corrode rims if you dont demount the tire and dry them out. Otherwise, there is nothing corrosive in Fix A Flat. These tires CAN be balanced. The degree of damage to the steel belts can affect the ability to achieve smooth operation, but this has nothing at all to do with Fix A Flat. It is a function of the damage, and the subsequent patch. There is no big deal in patching tires where these temporary inflatants have been used. They are not intended to be put into the tire and left forever. >>A day after I used the Fix-a-flat to drive home, I took the tire to >>Costco (where I bought) to have it patched. After the clerk prepared [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >The other issue is that many of the fix-a-flat products are explosive, Those formulas were outlawed years ago. now they are all water-based. Don www.donsautomotive.com >and have a tendency to blow up and kill people who are working on tires. >As a result, most folks won't even TOUCH tires that have that stuff in >them. >--scott > >>A day after I used the Fix-a-flat to drive home, I took the tire to > >>Costco (where I bought) to have it patched. After the clerk prepared [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Don > www.donsautomotive.com Correct, as usual, Don. The present formulation of Fix A Flat claims to be non flammable but contains fluorocarbons and aromatic solvents. Earlier versions did contain propane, I think, and maybe even earlier versions might have contained Freon type chlorofluorocarbons. I can't really remember the sequence, if I ever knew. The warning on the can says "Advise the professional of product use. Deflate tires containing Fix A Flat in well ventilated areas". So while there are potential hazards, fire and explosion are apparently not among them. >>The other issue is that many of the fix-a-flat products are explosive, > > Those formulas were outlawed years ago. now they are all water-based. Hence the rim corrosion they cause, which often results in a rim that you can't mount ANY tire on again because the air leaks out the corrded bead-sealing surface. > >>The other issue is that many of the fix-a-flat products are explosive, > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > you can't mount ANY tire on again because the air leaks out the corrded > bead-sealing surface. You are not supposed to leave that crap in the tire forever. Blow up the tire with a temporary inflatant and get it serviced as soon as possible. Water in the rim, whether by Fix A Flat or by air compressor belchover, WILL in time corrode the rim. If you use Fix A Flat, it is to get you to a tire repair enterprise; it is not intended as a permanent repair. My ex wife and my daughter couldnt fix anything,nor could either of them jack up a car and mount a spare. If yours can, you are blessed. I was cursed with *unts who could tear up more than I could ever keep fixed. >>>>The other issue is that many of the fix-a-flat products are explosive, >>> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > You are not supposed to leave that crap in the tire forever. Of course not, but people do wait longer than they should. Well, anyone who cares about maintenance wouldn't use the crap at all, but that just kinda proves the point, doesn't it? The very people that use the crap are the least likely to remove it immediately. Blow up the > tire > with a temporary inflatant and get it serviced as soon as possible. But if I were running a tire store, you could be DAMN sure I'd a) charge extra for the labor of trying to properly clean out a slimed tire/wheel assembly, and b) would NOT warranty a patch to adhere properly. > My ex wife and my daughter couldnt fix anything,nor could either of them > jack up a car and mount a spare. Then WHAT are they doing behind the wheel? Sorry, but there are certain very basic skills that ANY driver MUST have, and IMO installing a spare is one of them. Its not particularly difficult. |
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