Very little.  While someone with your intelligence and determination
could easily master A/C service with a little study/practice, someone
with your intelligence would also know not to mess with A/C work
without any prior learning or experience.  The "kit" has a charging
hose.  That's it.  Well, maybe a crappy low side gauge on the "high
end" kit.  Let someone with $500 invested in a proper pump, good
gauges, and the experience to do it right and safely charge your
system.  You will probably pay about one hour of labor (sorry,
labour).  That sounds worth it to me, unless you want to really take
the time to learn A/C safety and theory, then buy a minimum of decent
equipment.  Another thing to look for -- there are probably kits out
there with some BS combination of dye, oil, and sealer in the
refrigerant.

This miracle A/C kit can't create a vacuum on your system.  It won't
display system pressures. What's the kit manufacturer's stance on
those issues?

I don't know all of the details in your case, but simply put, just
replacing a condenser and drier, then evacuating and charging the
system (labour only) should not cost $700 US, Can, or Euro.

Toyota MDT in MO

I'm not a big fan of those cans as you can't see the high and low side
pressures but they are bought everyday by people I can guarantee have
a lot less common sense than you and they don't screw it up....  

Depending on how bad the leak is I'm sure you can find a shop that
will just top it off for you if you are worried about doing it
yourself.

               Steve B.

In this heat you'll have a very hard time over charging it.  I would
certainly try the do it yourself route for at least on can and see how
long it lasts.  Also, Chevy has for years said you can't charge a
system based on pressure but should do it by feeling the temperatures
of the inlet and outlet pipes of the evaporator.  You can do the same
on the Tercel most likely, they should both be about the same temp and
the temp should be cool to cold feeling.  But realistically, just buy
a DIY kit and put as much of the can in as you can and see how it
works.  If you have noticed it's stopped working well it's almost
guaranteed that it's a can low and you'll be pretty safe giving it a
shot.

And like the other poster said, it's not illegal to recharged a system
with a small leak.  The shops tell you it is because they want to do
as much $work$ as they can drum up and they make a lot more selling
you part$s and labor then they do just selling labor for a recharge.

Good luck on Monday.  Sounds like you might have found a better shop.
I can't hear his side of the story so I hate to think poorly of that
mechanic but it sounds like he is trying to separate you from your
money.

All car a/c systems leak to a certain extent.  On an enclosed
electrical a/c system all the connections are soldered and the motor
is an integral part of the compressor so there is no reason for them
to leak.  I have a friend who is still running a window unit a/c that
was installed in 1964 and it still works as well today as it did the
day it was installed.  On a car system you have to have rubber hoses
so that things can move and the individual pieces are sealed with
double o-ring fittings so they can easily be disassembled for service.
The mobile a/c compressor has a drive shaft running through the case
because it has to be driven via the engine drive belt.  All these
places leak a teeeny tiny bit of refrigerant so it isn't unrealistic
to think that a 7 or 8 year old car needs half a can of refrigerant

                Steve B.

I'll update Monday. I sure hope the dealer tech was wrong. That would
make things so much easier.

Hello Tegger,

Sorry to hear that you are having all these problems with your AC.

I actually don't even own/drive a car, so all my knowledge about AC
systems is rather peripheral. However, I do know a little bit about
the refrigerant regulation in Canada and in Ontario.

First of all there are two types of refrigerants that OEMs used in
automotive systems:

R12 (CFC) this is ozone depleting stuff and is regulated in Canada
(and in the US) on the federal level. Since 1994 all new AC systems no
longer use R12. In Ontario refilling a R12 system is prohibited even
if it is leak free.

R134a (HFC) is non-ozone depleting gas but has a high green house
potential (GWP) and in Canada it is regulated on the Provincial level.

In Ontario, Ministry of Environment regulates the use of R134a --
there are VERY steep fines involved in violating their regulations.

You can see a summary of their regulations on their website at:

http://www.ene.gov.on.ca/envision/Ozone/faq.htm

As you can see from their FAQ a shop is under NO OBLIGATION and SHOULD
NOT remove refrigerant from a leaking system. However, they are
forbiden from refilling or topping off a system that they suspect is
leaking.

However, they are fully allowed to refill the system for the purposes
of testing -- that is covered in the FAQ. If you want to dive into the
legaleeze of all the applicable regulations you can see the actual
regulation on the e-laws website.

In Ontario there are certain flammable alternative refrigerants that
are available for purchase over-the-counter in some automotive stores
(PartsSource, etc)

You can see info about these types of refrigerants on:

http://www.duracool.com/
http://www.redtek.com/

I would strongly urge you NOT to use any of these refrigerants because
they are highly flammable (i.e. basically a mixture of propane and/or
butane). Thus if you have a leak in the evaporator and there is a
spark you may have an explosion in the passenger compartment.

Though, R134a is available for sale over-the-counter in most US states
including NY for a nominal cost, but I would not advise it bringing it
to Canada as it would expose you to environmental fines which can be
quite substantial.

the system, repair it yourself, and then have the shop leak test it
and refill it.

Again, I do not have first hand knowledge of any of these matters,
just some info I came across years ago.

Regards,

Tom

I'll just have to wait until Monday, I guess.

I did NOT authorize anybody to evacuate the system, and nobody told me this
was being done.

The tech and the Service Advisor both told me that, according to Canadian
law, if a car is brought in and there is even the suspicion of a leak, the
system must be evacuated before the car is taken back by the customer. I find
that hard to believe, considering the independent was quite willing to do his
own diagnostics, with dye and all.

It probably won't tell you much, but I took some photos of the area in
question:
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/tercel_ac/

The grunge buildup on the condenser is only on the left side. The grunge
buildup on everything else is all over the place. That's 3 years of
indiscriminate "drippy" rustproofing.