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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / July 2007Ping Comboverfish--A/C on Corolla Wagon, and horn...
Apropos of Toyota MDT in MO's previous help in my A/C-electric Qs, here's an update (and how I spent July 4th) <g>: The car is in fact a 91 toyota corolla DX wagon, altho the windshield sticker says "SUBN". Solved, but did not fix, the A/C problem. It's indeed the low pressure switch, and indeed, the compressor is blowing warm air. Clearly low on refrigerant. :( Was hoping for a loose wire. :( :( But your help made sleuthing this out very quick! Bless you! I'm assuming a shop will evacuate whatever refrigerant is in there, and replace it with whatever is in use today. After checking for leaks? Take it to Toyota, or a decent local mechanic? Assuming an easy fix on any leaks (hose mebbe), what should this cost, $-wise, time-wise? Remember the dangling wire from the non-working horn?? That's actually a small drain hose!!!! Go figger..... And here's the kicker: The horn itself is good. Found the horn/hazard fuse--good. Found the horn relay (right next to this fuse): no voltage in *any* of the 4 prong-slots for the relay. Checked and rechecked, with someone leaning on the horn at the steering wheel. This suggests either a bad horn switch in the steering wheel, or a loose wire somewhere. Do horn switches in the steering wheel ever go bad? Never heard of that happening. How would I continue sleuthing this problem?? If I knew what the color code was of the wires at the horn switch, I might be able to see them under dash/wheel, check for voltage in, and then jump the switch and check for voltage back to the relay, to at least rule out a broken/burnt wire in the harness. Or mebbe just find a disconnected wire somewhere at the wheel? Any "quick fixes"--alternate horn switch?? Oh, one more thing about both of these problems: It's been a while, but the owner says that one of these problems occurred after a minor fender bender (not even a bent fender) OR visit to a shop, and one after the car was towed to a shop for some other problem. Not etched in stone, of course. Another shop after that couldn't find the horn problem--probably did what I did, and went no further. Possible sabotage? Hey, Sears was caught doing this... :) Thanks again  Signature------ Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message: Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican. Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way* to Materially Improve Your Family's Life. The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive! entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie, all d'numbuhs On Jul 5, 7:42 am, "Proctologically Violated??" <entropic3.14de...@optonline2.718.net> wrote: > The car is in fact a 91 toyota corolla DX wagon, altho the windshield > sticker says "SUBN". I didn't know that vehicles were ID'ed by their window stickers :^] > Solved, but did not fix, the A/C problem. > It's indeed the low pressure switch, and indeed, the compressor is blowing > warm air. Dual pressure switch. > Clearly low on refrigerant. :( Well, that's far and away the most likely cause of no compressor engagement. > Was hoping for a loose wire. :( :( Get favorable odds if you are going to bet on loose wire A/C failures in the future. > But your help made sleuthing this out very quick! Bless you! No problem. > I'm assuming a shop will evacuate whatever refrigerant is in there, and > replace it with whatever is in use today. You can have them convert to R134a as the refrigerant is less expensive than R-12, although the cost to retrofit will more than offset the first time savings. Future leaks will provide a "return on investment". Corollas of that era cool well after conversion - with all original components (except drier). A system flush aimed at oil removal followed by replacement with Poly Ester oil would be recommended. > After checking for leaks? There's no other correct way. > Take it to Toyota, or a decent local mechanic? Whom ever you feel comfortable with. Ask friends and family. > Assuming an easy fix on any leaks (hose mebbe), what should this cost, > $-wise, time-wise? Between $.01 and $infinity. I find that A/C repair costs rarely exceed three hours labor on those cars. The only really expensive part is the compressor. They are really cheap to keep cool. > Remember the dangling wire from the non-working horn?? > That's actually a small drain hose!!!! Ok. > And here's the kicker: > The horn itself is good. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > This suggests either a bad horn switch in the steering wheel, or a loose > wire somewhere. To me it suggests that there is a broken or corroded contact point inside the underhood fusebox. If you truly don't have power at any of the horn relay terminals, then you have found the place to start looking. The 15 A Horn/Hazard fuse powers two of those four terminals. It's literally within two inches of the relay. I'd look somewhere in those two inches. Unbolt the fuse box, turn it over as best as possible and remove the back cover. Follow the wires inside. Maybe test those terminals once more to make sure they really are dead before doing all of this. Maybe test the fuse once more. > Do horn switches in the steering wheel ever go bad? Never heard of that > happening. Everything goes bad. > Any "quick fixes"--alternate horn switch?? Nope, but I could fix it quickly. > Another shop after that couldn't find the horn problem--probably did what I > did, and went no further. They either weren't paid to complete the job or they are incompetent. > Possible sabotage? Listen, all y'all, it's a sabotage! Like that kind of sabotage? > Hey, Sears was caught doing this... :) Speaking of incompetent... Sears Automotive, that is. Toyota MDT in MO OK, my next visit, I'll check that fuse block wiring--certainly easier than trying to negotiate under the dash. But if the fuse block don't yield results, I guess the dash/horn switch would be the next effort. Is the color coding for the wires going to the horn switch information that is readily available? Btw, Sears got caught doing this sh.t in *multiple states*, NY and NJ for sure, and I think further west, mebbe CA. Amazingly, doesn't seem to have hurt their business, at least not for long, judging from the people I talk to who don't hesitate to bring their cars to Sears. Thanks again for your great help. It was actually fun sleuthing the A/C problem, watching that center hub come on when I jumped the pressure switch. Almost felt like I knew what I was doing! :) Signature------ Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message: Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican. Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way* to Materially Improve Your Family's Life. The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive! entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie, all d'numbuhs On Jul 5, 7:42 am, "Proctologically Violated©®" <entropic3.14de...@optonline2.718.net> wrote: > The car is in fact a 91 toyota corolla DX wagon, altho the windshield > sticker says "SUBN". I didn't know that vehicles were ID'ed by their window stickers :^] > Solved, but did not fix, the A/C problem. > It's indeed the low pressure switch, and indeed, the compressor is blowing > warm air. Dual pressure switch. > Clearly low on refrigerant. :( Well, that's far and away the most likely cause of no compressor engagement. > Was hoping for a loose wire. :( :( Get favorable odds if you are going to bet on loose wire A/C failures in the future. > But your help made sleuthing this out very quick! Bless you! No problem. > I'm assuming a shop will evacuate whatever refrigerant is in there, and > replace it with whatever is in use today. You can have them convert to R134a as the refrigerant is less expensive than R-12, although the cost to retrofit will more than offset the first time savings. Future leaks will provide a "return on investment". Corollas of that era cool well after conversion - with all original components (except drier). A system flush aimed at oil removal followed by replacement with Poly Ester oil would be recommended. > After checking for leaks? There's no other correct way. > Take it to Toyota, or a decent local mechanic? Whom ever you feel comfortable with. Ask friends and family. > Assuming an easy fix on any leaks (hose mebbe), what should this cost, > $-wise, time-wise? Between $.01 and $infinity. I find that A/C repair costs rarely exceed three hours labor on those cars. The only really expensive part is the compressor. They are really cheap to keep cool. > Remember the dangling wire from the non-working horn?? > That's actually a small drain hose!!!! Ok. > And here's the kicker: > The horn itself is good. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > This suggests either a bad horn switch in the steering wheel, or a loose > wire somewhere. To me it suggests that there is a broken or corroded contact point inside the underhood fusebox. If you truly don't have power at any of the horn relay terminals, then you have found the place to start looking. The 15 A Horn/Hazard fuse powers two of those four terminals. It's literally within two inches of the relay. I'd look somewhere in those two inches. Unbolt the fuse box, turn it over as best as possible and remove the back cover. Follow the wires inside. Maybe test those terminals once more to make sure they really are dead before doing all of this. Maybe test the fuse once more. > Do horn switches in the steering wheel ever go bad? Never heard of that > happening. Everything goes bad. > Any "quick fixes"--alternate horn switch?? Nope, but I could fix it quickly. > Another shop after that couldn't find the horn problem--probably did what > I > did, and went no further. They either weren't paid to complete the job or they are incompetent. > Possible sabotage? Listen, all y'all, it's a sabotage! Like that kind of sabotage? > Hey, Sears was caught doing this... :) Speaking of incompetent... Sears Automotive, that is. Toyota MDT in MO On Jul 6, 8:32 am, "Proctologically Violated??" <entropic3.14de...@optonline2.718.net> wrote: > OK, my next visit, I'll check that fuse block wiring--certainly easier than > trying to negotiate under the dash. > But if the fuse block don't yield results, I guess the dash/horn switch > would be the next effort. The fuse box / horn relay area is right at the center of the circuit. Test from there and you will find out the most the fastest. > Is the color coding for the wires going to the horn switch information that > is readily available? Wiring diagrams are available as previously detailed in response to your last A/C thread. They may not indicate the color of the wires inside the fuse box, but they will show wiring colors for any connector to connector in the car. Looking into the fuse box and figuring out which wires are a continuation of the circuit in question is rather easy. Any given internal wire is almost always the same color as the rest of its circuit anyway. The only time the color is a nonfactor is in the case of metal buss strips used in the center of the box. You probably won't have to worry about that, and frankly shouldn't take the box *that* far apart because it won't go together easily. Again, you know exactly where the fuse and relay socket are. Just look "underneath" them from inside the box. Toyota MDT in MO |
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