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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / July 2007Big problems locating replacement "Fan Control Module" (cooling fan module/variable speed) for 96 Escort LX 1.9L
If anyone can assist in this parts search, I would be very grateful! I've tried to provide full info, so please pardon the length of this post. Been grappling w/this for about a month in the desert southwest summer heat. Car being serviced by a NAPA certified shop, however, no one can seem to provide my mechanic w/the correct "FCM" (aka 'relay' of sorts). I have spent days searching the Net and all possible part sources, locating only one possibility. His phone calls to Ford entities resulted the claim that the FCM needed "has been discontinued" and they refused to even give my mechanic the OEM part number for us to reference in our continued search. The FCM that is fried was mfg by Imasen (oriental company), and the identifying number "H271" is no longer applicable; now pertains to a different type of module for totally different model & year of Ford vehicle(s), as well NON-cooling fan purposes . FCM is also marked DC12V10A, followed by 6A 11. It is a "5-blade" (aka prongs - much like the prongs of a household device one plugs into a wall socket, only smaller) , w/the blades arranged in a set of two rows: bottom row has three blades left to right, and top row has one blade each in the left and right corners, with NO prong in the center position. It is POSSIBLE that the following applies, however, the image on the parts supplier site comes directly from SMP according to the supplier's c-serv person, and I cannot determine from the online image whether the "blade" alignment is correct -> http://catalog.autopartsgiant.com/item.wws?sku=RY-452&mfr=STANDARD%20MOTOR%20PRO DUCTS&weight=1&cookieID=24F0WHK9X24F0WIQLB&clientid=autopartsgiant "Description: Radiator Fan Relay Manufacturer: STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS Product Details For:RY-452 Additional Description: 5 Blade Terminal ; w/Low Eng temp ; w/OEM# F1CZ-8B658C; Years:1991-1996" The only other possible candidate is also listed on that site, " D1709C ACDELCO US Miscellaneous Accessories Relay; Radiator Fan Relay; AC Cooling Fan ; 5 Blade Terminal ; w/OEM# F0CZ-2C013-A; Years: 1991-1996. There is no online image, no price, and apparently it is not available on demand is the site indicates to contact them for a price and such. I have submitted "contact forms" w/the requested info on various parts supply sites, including Standard Motor Products itself and their "distributors" to no avail thus far. I have digital close-up pics of the FCM that we need to replace, but website 'contact forms' have no provision for including those images as an attachment. I have searched through probably 60-70 google search result sites over several days, but the above parts on the autopartsgiant.com site is the only potential successful result. Even then, their c-serv was unable to confirm whether their part RY-452 has the correct blade placement, and directed me to SMP itself. If at all possible, I would rather locate the actual, new/unused FCM needed instead of dredging one or two up from an auto salvage yard - as the reliability of a salvaged electrical/electronic part on an 11- year old car is likely problematic. When this FCM fails, the radiator cooling fan motor itself of course stops running & the engine quickly overheats. In desert summer heat is a bad thing all the way around and I'd rather not risk melting the motor by having the fan quit in traffic. If I could even locate or confirm the correct OEM part number - that would be helpful as well! TIA! > If anyone can assist in this parts search, I would be very grateful! > I've tried to provide full info, so please pardon the length of this [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > > TIA! Are the pins numbered, i.e. 86, 87 etc, or maybe 30, 31 etc.? If so Bosch more than likely makes an equivalent, probably better, substitute. Maybe here?: http://replacement.autopartswarehouse.com/parts/autopartswarehouse/wizard.jsp?ye ar=1996&make=FO&model=ESCO-LX-006&category=All&part=Relay&dp=true  SignatureSteve Walker Fusion640@verizonwallet.net (remove wallet to reply) > Are the pins numbered, i.e. 86, 87 etc, or maybe 30, 31 etc.? If so > Bosch more than likely makes an equivalent, probably better, substitute. I did find and search a Bosch site, but found nothing that came close. There were some "relay" entries, but none were similar, and I found no "Fan Control Module" entries. I did try searching for just "module", but didn't find anything there that way. I could not find any numbers on the pins/prongs themselves, at all. There are no *numbers* at the base of the blue plastic inner housing into which the prongs/pins themselves are inserted/attached, but there are some alpha characters I can barely make out. This is the best I can make out the alphas, as there is some defamation of the plastic probably due to the burnout heat: NO COM COIL NO (no prong/no ltrs) COIL The "NO" may be "MO" or something similar, but it's fairly well obscured by damage. > Maybe here?: > http://replacement.autopartswarehouse.com/parts/autopartswarehouse/wi... Darn it, I wish this was it. This site lists this part as a true "relay", and IMU my fried part is termed a 'radiator cooling fan' "Fan Control Module." These should be functional photobucket links to the digital closeups I took of mine. The first is the whole unit, the 2nd is the prong/blades & alignment, and the last two are the front and back of the unit w/the black outter plastic housing removed. http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r39/J-MB/Escort/3712a247.jpg http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r39/J-MB/Escort/7667b2de.jpg http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r39/J-MB/Escort/fe25087a.jpg http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r39/J-MB/Escort/a6ea6768.jpg You can see from the 4 shots on photobucket, the below "RY-452" is pretty close, but I can't determine from that image what the prong/ blade alignment is. http://images.wrenchead.com/smartpages/partinfo_resize/STA/ry452.jpg (From >http://catalog.autopartsgiant.com) I appreciate your help!! >> Are the pins numbered, i.e. 86, 87 etc, or maybe 30, 31 etc.? If so >> Bosch more than likely makes an equivalent, probably better, substitute. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >The "NO" may be "MO" or something similar, but it's fairly well >obscured by damage. That's NO as in NORMALLY OPEN. You have two SPST switches with one leg of each connected to common, and a 12V coil. You can use any relay of this configuration with a little rewiring. In a pinch you could use two SPST relays. --scott Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." Does http://info.rockauto.com/SMP/SMPDetail2.html?RY225.jpg look familar? Ed > If anyone can assist in this parts search, I would be very grateful! > I've tried to provide full info, so please pardon the length of this [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > > TIA! > Doeshttp://info.rockauto.com/SMP/SMPDetail2.html?RY225.jpglook familar? > > Ed<check79...@mypacks.net> wrote in message I did locate that during searching. Got all excited at first, too even though it's listed as "RELAY - HEADLIGHT" but it did not look right. I can't bring up item via the link again now for some reason, and I get a msg, "Specific information for this part not available from Rockauto." I thought I might be getting close with "RY375 {RELAY - HVAC BLOWER MOTOR}" but the prong/blade alignment is off by one. In that one the 'blank spot' where there is no pin is shown at the far left, top stack. In my fried one, the 'blank spot' in in the center of its row, w/blades to the far left and right of the blankspot/center of the row. The also listed a "RY225T {TRU-TECH} Air Conditioning Cooling Fan; 2 Blade Terminal", but of course I need a 5-blade terminal and not a "2 Blade". It's becoming quite maddening, I'm afraid. I DO appreciate you help! Try http://www.smpcorp.com/web_app/catalog/publiccatalog.asp Ed > If anyone can assist in this parts search, I would be very grateful! > I've tried to provide full info, so please pardon the length of this [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > > TIA! > Tryhttp://www.smpcorp.com/web_app/catalog/publiccatalog.asp > > Ed I've been trying that site for it's catalog most of the day, but I keep getting a "The server at www.smpcorp.com is taking too long to respond." msg in Firefox. I had figured for sure that could very well be the only source - but darn if I can get to their actual online catalog. On Jul 9, 7:55 pm, check79...@mypacks.net wrote: >http://www.smpcorp.com/web_app/catalog/publiccatalog.asp Browser error resolved. Searching now. Part RY375 is not the correct blade/prong alignment. And it's the only part shown that otherwise appears to be a potential replacement for my fried one. RY602 is one of the only other 2 applicable for the 1.9L engine, but it is listed as a 4-blade terminal. RY225, is a 2-blade terminal. RY227 is for a 1.8L and even so, it isn't close and doesn't appear to be an alternative. *sigh* I could just kick Ford in the shins...... Found this in a forum for you. Lynde 09-21-2005, 11:45 PM The engine cooling fan in a 96 Ford Escort LX 1.9 liter is not turning on. Does anyone know how or where to verify if it is the cooling fan or the relay that is bad ? Where can I place a jumper to test cooling fan motor? Any help would be greatly appreciated!!! I think your vehicle has an intergrated relay system also known as the CCRM (constant control relay module) located under the battery/ air filter area. You might have to replace it. ( Black rectangle flat metal box. With one connector going to it with about 50 wires. I believe the bolt size is a 5.5mm.that hold the CCRM down (4)and the corrector bolt to release the harness is a 7mm. ) If you can verify that the Fan itself is not the fault. Just run some wires directly to the battery from the connector on the fan. hag 10-03-2005, 02:22 PM The 96 Escort uses a relay in the underhood fuse block (marked "Ignition") to power up the low and high speed coolant fan relays, which are mounted to the driver's side fender behind the air cleaner box. Remove the air cleaner box, and there they are hiding in their rubber boots. Any one or all three relays can be bad, and usually you can see signs of melted connectors when they fail. They are all rated for 20 amps. I have replaced mine with 30 amp relays, which didn't plug into the stock connectors. I had to custom wire them. Hag Lynde 10-04-2005, 09:17 PM The 96 Escort uses a relay in the underhood fuse block (marked "Ignition") to power up the low and high speed coolant fan relays, which are mounted to the driver's side fender behind the air cleaner box. Remove the air cleaner box, and there they are hiding in their rubber boots. Any one or all three relays can be bad, and usually you can see signs of melted connectors when they fail. They are all rated for 20 amps. I have replaced mine with 30 amp relays, which didn't plug into the stock connectors. I had to custom wire them. Hag Another way to see if the fan is bad is just turn on the A/C. The fan should come on. It can run off of three different relays, the high speed, the low speed or the A/C relay. SignatureSteve Walker Fusion640@verizonwallet.net (remove wallet to reply) > Found this in a forum for you. Thanks! The thread(s) do bring up some very relevant points. (And I should mention this saga actually began ~4 wks. ago when the AC stopped producing cooled air, despite the compressor being noticeably active and so on. After AC system service, all was right w/the world for a week or so, then the car overheated - which I learned was due to the fan control module/relay having failed. Since no replacement 'relay' could be quickly located, shop 'jump wired' the fan to run whenever the engine was running. Which was so-so ok a temporary resolution.....until the wire dislodged. Rinse...repeat ;) 1) CCRM and verify fan motor/fan itself not at fault. * I believe they did this at the NAPA shop. The fan motor does 'run', and we know this because they did 'jump wire' it so I can at least get around in this heat while they/we search for this #$&#% part. ;) (As you might guess from inferring my 'bad luck', the first & temp fix w/to wire it directly - and of course, a few days later in the height day's heat & on the freeway, the dumb wire dislodged. Once things were cool enough to touch under the hood, the first thing I did was ensure that the fan blades were not frozen up, that no fluid leaks had appeared in the area of the water pump, etc.) As for failure in other parts or components: the compressor does kick in/on, and remains kicked in even though the cooled air now ceases after 2 miles of daytime driving. This is while the fan motor itself is still operating the 'jump wired' fan, as well. I can both hear the compressor doing its thing when I depress the AC selector pushknob, and I can feel the effect on the motor & see RPM changes. 2) underhood fuse block .... Yep. That's exactly where this stupid part came from, underneath that, beneath the air filter box, down exactly as that post described including the location of the fuse block w/in the engine compartment. Interesting, tho, the post states "they are all 20 amps" relays. According the markings on my fried part, it is a 10 amp? ("DC12V10A"). Yep, "stock connectors" may very well be something that shop w/end up having to modify, in order to use any compatible part we can find - since it seems that one w/correctly aligned blades/prongs may not exist! 3) fan speeds..... yes, despite the cooling fan running now on the temporary 'jump wiring', it supposedly does have variable speeds. I don't know if it's at all related, but the variable speed/volume "fan" that blows air into the passenger compartment is still working properly and w/variable speeds via the hand selector on the console. I continue to REALLY appreciate your help!!! >Found this in a forum for you. >Lynde >09-21-2005, 11:45 PM >The engine cooling fan in a 96 Ford Escort LX 1.9 liter is not turning >on. Does anyone know how or where to verify if it is the cooling fan or >the relay that is bad ? Where can I place a jumper to test cooling fan >motor? >Any help would be greatly appreciated!!! Get a schematic. Otherwise, you have no business messing around with the electrical system. To test it, put a voltmeter from ground to the contact going to the fuse/battery. There should be 12v there. Move the voltmeter to the other contact. It should read 12V when the coil is energized. Put a voltmeter across the coil to check wether or not it is energized. > Get a schematic. Otherwise, you have no business messing around with the > electrical system. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > contact. It should read 12V when the coil is energized. Put a voltmeter > across the coil to check wether or not it is energized. Thank you for the testing procedure info, but I should point out that the portion of text you quoted was not authored by either me or Steve Walker - it is text from a thread elsewhere Mr. Walker located as related in subject matter to my original inquiry (which is the opening post in this thread). Neither of us the "Lynde," the author of the text you quoted. I believe the NAPA-certified shop mechanic(s) that have been working on my Escort and who located the specific radiator cooling fan "module"/relay which I am trying to locate an appropriate replacement for, have tested as you instructed and more so. Because it has been weeks and the proper replacement part has not been located, I told the shop I would try to find it or a source for it online - as they do not have or use the Internet at the shop. Thank you again for your information and concern. On Jul 10, 4:42 am, check79...@mypacks.net wrote: > > Get a schematic. Otherwise, you have no business messing around with the > > electrical system. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Thank you again for your information and concern. I have glanced at my version of your car's wiring diagram, and it calls this part the 'cooling fan high speed relay'. Like at least one other poster mentioned, this 5 pin relay is a simple, albeit high current capacity part. With a knowledge of what is necessary to properly select and wire up a generic replacement relay safely, you could be on the road in about one hour. I also could see rearranging the wire terminals at the fan motor so that the 'cooling fan low speed relay' would turn the fan on high anytime the A/C was on or coolant temp exceeded 220*F (if you wanted to drop the bad relay all together). I do not see reference to a CCRM (Command Control Relay Module) as other(s) have suggested. Some Fords do not use a CCRM, so this comes as no shock. Toyota MDT in MO > Been grappling w/this for about a month in the desert southwest summer > heat. Car being serviced by a NAPA certified shop, however, no one can [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > discontinued" and they refused to even give my mechanic the OEM part > number for us to reference in our continued search. Without putting down your quest for a new part, have you checked any local wrecking yards to see if you could find a working relay there? It would appear ford is giving you the "Why don't you just buy a new car, dammit.." shoulder, and if they won't sell you the part new then going used from the wrecker may be your only option. Chris > Without putting down your quest for a new part, have you checked any > local wrecking yards to see if you could find a working relay there? > It would appear ford is giving you the "Why don't you just buy a new > car, dammit.." shoulder, and if they won't sell you the part new then > going used from the wrecker may be your only option. Getting a used one from a wrecking/salvage yard may end up being the only alternative, but I'm giving it the 'ol college try first. Mechanic's shop has ongoing relationship with one or more in the area, so if that's what we have to do I'm going to let him handle it - and ask him to get 2 or 3 while he's at it so at least we'd have them on hand. Ford can take a flying leap as far as I'm concerned.... it's not like they've learned to wire a car yet! :D > If I could even locate or confirm the correct OEM part number - that > would be helpful as well! > > TIA! I am in Toronto Canada. A local Ford Dealer to me can have the part in 24 hours. Their name is Yonge-Steels Ford Lincoln Sales Ltd. Phone # 905-889-7343. It costs $30.00 Canadian. The part number is DY 865. I was bored, one phone call had it..... Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile... Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) >> If I could even locate or confirm the correct OEM part number - that >> would be helpful as well! [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590 > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) Check here also: > http://www.tsetruckstuff.com/page/tsetruck/PROD/DY865 US $14.65 plus shipping. SignatureSteve Walker Fusion640@verizonwallet.net (remove wallet to reply) Scott Dorsey wrote: >That's NO as in NORMALLY OPEN. You have two SPST switches with one leg >of each connected to common, and a 12V coil. >You can use any relay of this configuration with a little rewiring. >In a pinch you could use two SPST relays. SPST - ("Single Pole Single Throw"), right? I had to look that up ;) (Never hear it before, and don't understand squat about how electricity works.) "Rewiring" is exactly what I'm going to propose to the mechanic Wednesday as a part of the remedial fix. ----- ---- Mike Romain wrote: >A local Ford Dealer to me can have the part in 24 hours. >Their name is Yonge-Steels Ford Lincoln Sales Ltd. >Phone # 905-889-7343. >It costs $30.00 Canadian. >The part number is DY 865. Thanks! I appreciate that info. We've had so much trouble matching the reality of which relay came out of the car, with what the various parts books have indicated was "the right one" - only to find w/ repeated tries that the ones specified in the books actually would not fit and/or didn't work. With that in mind, I googled up part DY-865. Alas, based on the specs I found for it and the online images, it may well not be the right one after all. The GSRPs indicated several things, including that DY-865 and DY-864 are for Ford disels; it's also a 4-blade "relay, electronic engine control (Assembly) DY-865 Universal Relay" for " FORD (202) yrs. 1983-1994 and AEROSTAR (9) 1986-1992"; and rockauto.com lists DY-864 as "1987 LINCOLN CONTINENTAL 5.0L 302 cubic inch V8 MFI (F) Electrical- Switch & Relay". "Multi Purpose Relay Auto Parts" are listed as part numbers DY-864 to DY-867. But I sure appreciate your time in checking it out! -- ----- Comboverfish wrote: >I have glanced at my version of your car's wiring diagram, and it >calls this part the 'cooling fan high speed relay'. Like at least one >other poster mentioned, this 5 pin relay is a simple, albeit high >current capacity part. With a knowledge of what is necessary to >properly select and wire up a generic replacement relay safely, you >could be on the road in about one hour. Thank you!!! This is going to be my plan and I'm going to have to insist that the shop tell me whether they can accomplish this work- around or not. After much online searching, the relay that seems to come the closest is at autopartsgiant.com - their "Standard Motor RY-452 Radiator Fan Relay 5 Blade Terminal ; W/low Eng Temp ; W/oem# F1cz-8b658c; Years:1991-1996". The reason I was hesitant to go for this one initially was due to blade alignment descrepancies between the fried one here in my hand and the image the site displays for this part. The image *appears* to depict only 3 blades - which directly contradicts the product description. So.... I got to thinking: it's the same in all other respects (best as I can determine) *except* for the picture showing only 3 blades. When I called their C-serv, the young man I spoke with told me they get all their info from the mfg/supplier - including the part's image. That being the case, it seems likely that the pic simply doesn't match exactly and I should rely on the actual product description. If the mechanic tells me to 'go for it', either he or I can order that one and if need be I'll ask the shop to PLEASE just re-do whatever wiring is necessary in the car to accomodate the RY-452. >I also could see rearranging the wire terminals at the fan motor so >that the 'cooling fan low speed relay' would turn the fan on high >anytime the A/C was on or coolant temp exceeded 220*F (if you wanted >to drop the bad relay all together). That also sounds like a good alternative, especially if RY-452 and any necessary rewiring of what it connects to won't work out. >I do not see reference to a CCRM (Command Control Relay Module) as >other(s) have suggested. Some Fords do not use a CCRM, so this comes >as no shock. Good to know! I was sure I'd read this, but figured it would be something else to ask the shop to check out just in case. Now I don't have to sound like an idiot :) ------- Steve wrote: I checked out the DY-865 shown at the link. My browser didn't pick up an image for that, and the description is just "Relay" - but it's likely the same DY-865 the Canadian Ford dealer specified to Mike Romain. I dredged up info about that one, and it doesn't seen like it applies. Thanks again for your continued help and interest, though!! So..... the plan is to Wednesday (a) call C-serv for autopartsgiant.com for availability on RY-452 (no location info on website beyond 800 phone number, but whois comes back to an address not far out of Los Angeles proper - so hopefully shipping won't take too long), and (b) call shop again (they were too busy today to spend time on the phone w/me) and propose RY-452 plus any rewiring as required. Thank you very much to everyone for all your help, info and time! > Mike Romain wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > But I sure appreciate your time in checking it out! > -- ----- He had to cross reference the out of service part by the commentary I was hearing. It took him a while to do. I would suspect it's the right part, .... DY 865 is the right description as a 5 pin relay. It can have many use, relays are common. Mike > He had to cross reference the out of service part by the commentary I > was hearing. It took him a while to do. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Mike A time-consuming task I would guess, and very much appreciated! Everyone contributing in this thread has really gone above and beyond and I am very, very appreciative!! m |
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