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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / July 2007Petition to bring the Electric Car back to the Retail Market.
Sign this petition to bring the electric car, which they are keeping from us, back to the retail market. Take a minute and read, then sign it and email it to any and everyone you know. Together we can bring change, and it is time we stand tall and let our voice be heard. http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/ElectricCarDemand The Imperial Shark On Jul 21, 1:45 am, ImperialSh...@gmail.com wrote: > Sign this petition to bring the electric car, which they are keeping > from us, back to the retail market. Take a minute and read, then sign [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > The Imperial Shark Who is they? I think it is the same people who you are trying to get to sign the petition. Auto mfgs are not sure enough people will buy electric cars to make it worth their while to pay the development non- recurring costs. You would be surprised how much effort these companies put into determining what customers want. People are afraid Ecars will leave them stranded or inconvenienced with the state-of-the-art of current battery cars. Hybrids are something else, but again most customers these days are into more performance, so MOST of the new hybrids use the technology to increase performance, not cut down on fuel usage or emissions. Until you can convince the buying public that current cars have more than enough performance, you won't get anywhere. Cars are more than transportation, and symbolic of POWER. People want more POWER. Find a way to change the buying public on that issue and you will be doing a worthwhile thing. Forcing mfgs to produce things the consumer will not buy risks damaging our economy. Personally my ten year old car has MORE than enough performance but I know so many friends just have to have more POWER/PERFORMANCE! >Sign this petition to bring the electric car, which they are keeping >from us, back to the retail market. Take a minute and read, then sign >it and email it to any and everyone you know. Together we can bring >change, and it is time we stand tall and let our voice be heard. > >http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/ElectricCarDemand Where's the electricity to power all these cars going to come from? >> Sign this petition to bring the electric car, which they are keeping >>from us, back to the retail market. Take a minute and read, then sign [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Where's the electricity to power all these cars going to come from? You can recharge them with a gas powered generator. >>Sign this petition to bring the electric car, which they are keeping >>from us, back to the retail market. Take a minute and read, then sign [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Where's the electricity to power all these cars going to come from? Most people will be doing their charging at night when we have an excess of generating capacity. It's very unlikely to be a problem. > On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 16:42:29 GMT, "robxr...@nowhere.com" > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Most people will be doing their charging at night when we have an > excess of generating capacity. It's very unlikely to be a problem. Day or night, still pumps out same amount of CO2, uses same amount of fuel oil. >> On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 16:42:29 GMT, "robxr...@nowhere.com" >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >Day or night, still pumps out same amount of CO2, uses same amount of >fuel oil. So? The fuel that those electric cars DON"T burn will be available for those power plants. And because they are stationary plants that won't be starting and stopping at every stop light they should be able to put out less pollution then the same amount of fuel burned in a car would have put out. > On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 10:26:39 -0700, Don Stauffer in Minnesota > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > put out less pollution then the same amount of fuel burned in a car > would have put out. Only if it has regenerative braking. >> <stauf...@usfamily.net> wrote: >> >> On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 16:42:29 GMT, "robxr...@nowhere.com" [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > >Only if it has regenerative braking. That pretty much goes without saying for an electric car. >>Only if it has regenerative braking. > > That pretty much goes without saying for an electric car. Not all electric cars have regenerative braking. >>>Only if it has regenerative braking. >> >> That pretty much goes without saying for an electric car. > >Not all electric cars have regenerative braking. I guess you're right. Things like golf carts and the NEVs don't. But anything that is going to be marketed as a "real" car I believe will have to have regenerative braking to maximize it's range since range, with current batteries, is the overall problem right now. >>>Sign this petition to bring the electric car, which they are keeping >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Most people will be doing their charging at night when we have an > excess of generating capacity. It's very unlikely to be a problem. So we just pollute more at night than we do currently. Yeah, that's great. >>>>Sign this petition to bring the electric car, which they are keeping >>> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >So we just pollute more at night than we do currently. Yeah, that's great. There should be less pollution overall since the electrics will be more efficient and what pollution there is will often be away from where we are living so at least it won't all be in the air we breath. Nothings perfect. Ashton Crusher <demi@moore.net> wrote in article <id5ba39i12argl54n1s7q13vdkm0t3rapa@4ax.com>... > >>>>Sign this petition to bring the electric car, which they are keeping > >>> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > where we are living so at least it won't all be in the air we breath. > Nothings perfect. What an a.s! That's exactly what is happening with the coal-fired pollution from the mid-west.....It ALL ends up on the East coast and permeates pristine environments such as the Maine wilderness with acid rain. You're NOT a noble fighter against pollution because you support electric cars. You're just another NIMBY.......... >Ashton Crusher <demi@moore.net> wrote in article ><id5ba39i12argl54n1s7q13vdkm0t3rapa@4ax.com>... [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >mid-west.....It ALL ends up on the East coast and permeates pristine >environments such as the Maine wilderness with acid rain. Different issue. >You're NOT a noble fighter against pollution because you support electric >cars. Never said I was. >You're just another NIMBY.......... You read way too much into things. Cut down on the coffee. > There should be less pollution overall since the electrics will be > more efficient Specifically how will an electric be more efficient than, say, a hybrid? Will it be more aerodynamic? Will it have thinner higher-pressure tires? No, you can't arbitrarily say that electric cars are "more efficient." There are electric cars out there that are pretty damn primitive (no regen braking, for example), but are getting some sales traction because people believe "its electric, it must be efficient!" > and what pollution there is will often be away from > where we are living I say all the pollution IN the cities, rather than pumping it out in rural areas. That way the people causing it are the ones to suffer from it, not vice-versa. >> There should be less pollution overall since the electrics will be >> more efficient > >Specifically how will an electric be more efficient than, say, a hybrid? Electric conversion is about 90% efficient. Gas engines are way less. All other things being equal, a full electric should be more efficient when you compare the energy IN to the distance covered. >Will it be more aerodynamic? Will it have thinner higher-pressure tires? >No, you can't arbitrarily say that electric cars are "more efficient." >There are electric cars out there that are pretty damn primitive (no >regen braking, for example), but are getting some sales traction because >people believe "its electric, it must be efficient!" It's silly to bring that kind of stuff into this. Of course a CRAPPY electric will be worse then a world class Hybrid. >> and what pollution there is will often be away from >> where we are living > >I say all the pollution IN the cities, rather than pumping it out in >rural areas. That way the people causing it are the ones to suffer from >it, not vice-versa. I suppose there is a certain logic to that but I suspect that many of those rural people are getting their electric from power plants FAR removed from their little slice of heaven. Should someone ship the pollution over to them? >>>There should be less pollution overall since the electrics will be >>>more efficient >> >>Specifically how will an electric be more efficient than, say, a hybrid? > > Electric conversion is about 90% efficient. That's certainly true for electric input to an electric motor compared to mechanical power out. But batteries throw a big SNAFU in the mix. Battery CHARGING efficiency is relatively poor, meaning that a pretty big chunk of the power that comes out of the wall plug is never going to get to the wheels of the car. I don't remember the latest efficiencies for different battery technologies, but charging efficiency is not all that far off from the peak efficiency of a good internal-combustion engine, particularly a constant speed turbo-diesel. You can easily prove this- feel your laptop battery or your cell phone battery after it's been charging for a while- they get hot because not all the input power gets stored, a lot is lost to heat. IMO, and I could be wrong but I don't think I am, the overall most efficient vehicle package would be a hybrid electric vehicle with a small constant-speed (or two-speed ala Toyota Hybrid Synergy Drive) common-rail injected turbo diesel. And this still neglects manufacturing energy- when you factor THAT in, a direct-to-wheels (ie conventional!) small diesel or gas engine probably wins when you look at the total raw material-to-the-crusher energy budget of a vehicle. > Gas engines are way less. > All other things being equal, a full electric should be more efficient > when you compare the energy IN to the distance covered. That depnds on what your definition of "in" is..... >Battery CHARGING efficiency is relatively poor, meaning that a pretty >big chunk of the power that comes out of the wall plug is never going to [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >been charging for a while- they get hot because not all the input power >gets stored, a lot is lost to heat. Charging efficiency depends a lot on the speed of charging. If you are willing to put up with a slow trickle charge for a couple days, you can get nice high efficiencies even with lead-acid cells. If you want to charge quickly, and everyone does, you will have to put up with badly reduced charging efficiency. Ultracapacitors (which are secretly batteries in disguise) help this situation a bit, but not miraculously. > IMO, and I could be wrong but I don't think I am, the overall most >efficient vehicle package would be a hybrid electric vehicle with a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >small diesel or gas engine probably wins when you look at the total raw >material-to-the-crusher energy budget of a vehicle. The thing about gasoline is the energy density is so damn high. With a pure electric vehicle, you lose so much energy just lugging the batteries around wherever you go. It's getting better, though. --scott  Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." > The thing about gasoline is the energy density is so damn high. With > a pure electric vehicle, you lose so much energy just lugging the batteries > around wherever you go. It's getting better, though. > --scott When you strip everything else away, that is indeed the crux. NOTHING is better than hydrocarbons at packing huge amounts of energy into a tiny volume and light weight, and doing so rather safely. In fact, diesel has more energy density than gasoline and you can practially put out a fire with a bucket of #2 diesel (OK, thats an exaggeration, but its not explosive like gasoline.) >> The thing about gasoline is the energy density is so damn high. With >> a pure electric vehicle, you lose so much energy just lugging the batteries [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >with a bucket of #2 diesel (OK, thats an exaggeration, but its not >explosive like gasoline.) Well, that's the advantage of the whole hydrogen car thing. You take your electricity, use it to produce hydrogen which is easier to store and ligher than comparably-powered batteries, and use that. Of course, hydrogen isn't half as easy to store as gasoline... but it took auto manufacturers a long time to figure out how to store gasoline safely as it is. --scott Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." How about the Air Car? May I Quote one of the PM Letters in my Popular Mechanics magazine for August 2007? I Quote: HOT AIR.The Article about the compressed-air car (''Driving on Thin Air,'' June '07) was so amazing and revoluntionary that I can't believe that you didn't feature it on your cover.A car with a range of 125 miles, up to 68 miles per hour, using nothing but air as it's on-board fuel source? If true, the implicatins for gasoline and pollution reduction, not to mention the national security and economic ramifications, are earth-shattering.Don Koplen Boulder,Colorado. Curry Holden, in Lexington,Texas says,,, I have a general dislike for paying so much at the pump, which is why it makes me so mad no American automaker the Air Car to U.S.markets. UnQuote. Here is the way it T'IS,,,, (My cuhulin's Quote) U.S.fed gove is Never going to do anything that benefits America and Americans. cuhulin CATTLE RAID of COOLEY On Jul 26, 10:24 am, cuhu...@webtv.net wrote: > I have a general dislike for paying so much at the pump, which is why it > makes me so mad no American automaker the Air Car to U.S.markets. I don't like paying those prices either, but I blame American drivers more than the automakers. As the price of gas has been going up, so has the consumption! No one is even TRYING to use less gas. No one is slowing down, no one is avoiding heavy braking, or doing any coasting. When I drive a few mph slower, or coast when a light way ahead turns red, all I get is tailgating and nasty looks! One doesn't need to stop driving (a sour grapes statement). You don't even need to drive fewer miles. Just use less gas when you do drive by driving in economy mode. > No one is even TRYING to use less gas. No one is slowing down, no one > is avoiding heavy braking, or doing any coasting. When I drive a few > mph slower, or coast when a light way ahead turns red, all I get is > tailgating and nasty looks! When you coast, yours is the only car on the road that coasts at that speed. That means every single person behind you has to work at riding their brakes for as long as you are having fun coasting. If you're driving a few MPH slower than traffic, and you're in the right lane, then those who are hassling you are bozos. If you're going slower in any but the right lane, you're basically going out of your way to be rude and obnoxious, and in some states you're breaking the law as well. Kudos to you for trying to conserve. But remember that the traffic lights alone in many places will waste more gasoline than just about anything else. Signature"Liberals used to be the ones who argued that sending U.S. troops abroad was a small price to pay to stop genocide; now they argue that genocide is a small price to pay to bring U.S. troops home." -- Jonah Goldberg >>>>There should be less pollution overall since the electrics will be >>>>more efficient [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > >That depnds on what your definition of "in" is..... You make a lot of good points. If I only had one car the hybrid would make the most sense. If I had a second car it would sure be nice to have a pure electric for the simplicity and to use for daily commutes. > You make a lot of good points. If I only had one car the hybrid would > make the most sense. If I had a second car it would sure be nice to > have a pure electric for the simplicity and to use for daily commutes. That's very true, and would be even more so if you had a plug-in station at BOTH ENDS of your commute. That way, the car's battery pack could be even smaller and lighter and less energy would be wasted in hauling around battery instead of payload. >>Sign this petition to bring the electric car, which they are keeping >>from us, back to the retail market. Take a minute and read, then sign [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Where's the electricity to power all these cars going to come from? From THEM. > Sign this petition to bring the electric car, which they are keeping > from us, back to the retail market. Take a minute and read, then sign [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > The Imperial Shark "THEY?" How about YOU? YOU are the ones that didn't buy enough of them to make them viable in the marketplace, you have only yourself to blame. Signatures on petitions don't mean anything if they don't turn into SALES of the vehicles. On Jul 21, 2:45 am, ImperialSh...@gmail.com wrote: > Sign this petition to bring the electric car, which they Precisely who are the "they" that are keeping the electric car from us. Since the EV1 was leased and not sold you never owned it so there is nothing to return to you. GM was under no obligation to sell your car to you. I can understand why GM would not want to shoulder the ongoing maintenance of a car they had no intention of selling in the long term. Do you really believe nonsense like: "Once it appeared that it was going to be a success, GM recalled all of the vehicles, and then shredded all of them." Do you really believe a company like GM with all of their financial troubles would invest the billions of dollars to tool up a new car only to kill it because it was successful? > are keeping > from us, And who are the "us" who want to drive low powered limited range electric cars. > back to the retail market. Take a minute and read, then sign > it and email it to any and everyone you know. Together we can bring > change, and it is time we stand tall and let our voice be heard. And why would I want to burn coal to power my car. Effectively that is what you would be doing. > http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/ElectricCarDemand > > The Imperial Shark >On Jul 21, 2:45 am, ImperialSh...@gmail.com wrote: >> Sign this petition to bring the electric car, which they > >Precisely who are the "they" that are keeping the electric car from >us. It's the government done it. See, since the government was taken over by the General Motors division of Sony, they have been pressuring everyone to use more and more gasoline. For example, the Texaco Division of Sony (formerly owned by the Vatican Division of the International Communist Conspiracy) has been showing record profits in the last couple of years. This is because the Federal Trade Commission (now a division of Sony) has been encouraging advertising of larger and larger vehicles to get the American Population to use larger gasoline. That's why every car manufacturer from Toyota (which is secretly controlled by the John Birch Society Division of Sony) on up to BMW (actually a division of the Bavarian Illuminati and Hanseatic League divisions of Sony) are producing huge SUVs. ALL of this is the result of the Anti-Catholic League. See, the Anti-Catholic league division of Sony wants to encourage the use of birth control. Higher gas prices, combined with much larger average car sizes, means teenagers are much more apt to go out on parking dates where birth control is used, rather than taking dates on long drives. --scott Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." > >On Jul 21, 2:45 am, ImperialSh...@gmail.com wrote: > >> Sign this petition to bring the electric car, which they [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > -- > "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." Ah, yes it's the big conspiracy. Likely it's run by former commies who as we all know have been secretly gathering in Mexico for an invasion of the U.S. |
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