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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / August 2007Water in gas
I have a '96 Blazer with water in the tank. My jet ski had water in the gas tank and I drained it into a gas can intending to dispose of it properly. Before I could drain it one of my kids put it into his Blazer. I'm not sure how much water was in the gas but I suspect that there was a significant amount. My question is this - if I fill the tank with "good" gas and drive it, will the water slush around in the tank and get sucked in to the carbs and be expelled? Or, will the water settle to the bottom of the tank and just accumulate until the vehicle stalls or fails to start? (yes, I know the best solution is to drain the tank, but the Blazer is not at my location right now.) Thanks. Water will not mix with gas. You can get drygas or some such product (mostly alcohol) that will allow the water to mix with the gas and prevent the problem of stalling when water alone is sucked in. > I have a '96 Blazer with water in the tank. My jet ski had water in the gas > tank and I drained it into a gas can intending to dispose of it properly. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Thanks.  SignatureMike Walsh West Palm Beach, Florida, U.S.A. Mike Walsh <spamscks@netrox.net> wrote in article <46AB5E89.3960715C@netrox.net>... >>> Water will not mix with gas. Your first statement is absolutely correct. >>> You can get drygas or some such product (mostly alcohol) that will allow the water to mix with the gas and prevent the problem of stalling when water alone is sucked in. Besides being incorrect, your second statement is in direct contradiction with your first - which WAS correct....... Water will NOT mix with gasoline - even when mixed with some other chemical such as alcohol. Water remains heavier than gasoline and does NOT mix with it. >Mike Walsh <spamscks@netrox.net> wrote in article ><46AB5E89.3960715C@netrox.net>... [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >Water remains heavier than gasoline and does NOT mix with it. Water, methanol (known as a "co-solvent") and gasoline form a three-way emulsion. That is why methanol (dry gas) can be used to purge a fuel tank of a limited amount of water, thus allowing a car with water contaminated fuel to run -- albeit roughly -- until the water is gone. Without the methanol, or a similar co-solvent from the alcohol family, the car will die whenever a slug of pure water comes through the fuel line. Anybody who doubts the properties of methanol, gasoline and water can pour the above substances into a mason jar and see for himself. Or ask a chemist. Don www.donsautomotive.com Scotch on the Rocks? ''shaken, not stirred''. If you have a glass of water and pour some alcohol into the water, the water level will barely rise up at all. Another old ''trick'' when there is water in the gas is to pour a bottle of Whiskey into the gas.Seems like a waste of good Whiskey to me.I bet a bottle of Everclear would ''cut'' that water real good. cuhulin Don <don@NO-SPAMdonsautomotive.com> wrote in article <6tg2b351rb9jp07vtf8nml2io71g0l0o4q@4ax.com>... > >Mike Walsh <spamscks@netrox.net> wrote in article > ><46AB5E89.3960715C@netrox.net>... [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > Don > www.donsautomotive.com You've obviously had far too many automotive chemical/snake oil salesmen stopping by your shop lately. Do they STILL put the "collectible prize rings" inside the snake oil cans as an incentive for you to sell them? What can you swap them for these days? Actually, if you mix alcohol and gasoline, then add a miniscule amount of water, you can actually see the water/alcohol mix precipitate from the gasoline to the bottom of the container. It is an easy-enough experiment for you to try on your own. > I have a '96 Blazer with water in the tank. My jet ski had water in the gas > tank and I drained it into a gas can intending to dispose of it properly. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Thanks. They sell stuff called gas line antifreeze or dry gas which takes car of it so it will burn through. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile... Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in article <46ab6a9b$0$5187$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com>... > They sell stuff called gas line antifreeze or dry gas which takes car of > it so it will burn through. Actually, all "gas line antifreeze" does is to keep the water in the tank and fuel lines from freezing in the gas line - thus the name, "gas line antifreeze." Nothing will make the water "burn through" the engine. Water does NOT burn. > Mike Romain <roma...@sympatico.ca> wrote in article > <46ab6a9b$0$5187$9a6e1...@unlimited.newshosting.com>... [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Nothing will make the water "burn through" the engine. Water does NOT burn. You really should do your research. All gasoline, even brand-new fuel, has a small amount of dissolved water. Small amounts of alcohol in the fuel keeps it that way and it passes through. Adding some form of alcohol will allow a little more to dissolve in it. See http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/fuels/rfg/waterphs.pdf You are right that water doesn't burn, but neither does nitrogen, which makes up 78% of the atmosphere. But it still goes through the engine. Dan When I owned a 1970 Volkswagen van, somehow I got some water in the gas tank.It made my van sputter to a stop and the engine wouldn't start back up and run.I wound up draining the gas/water out of the gas tank. But try some of that dry gas stuff, it might work for you. How about that cheap rubbing alcohol (wood alcohol) available at Wal Mart stores? Last time I bought a plastic bottle of that stuff at a Wal Mart store, it was priced at 44 cents.32 fluid ounces,70% Isoroply Alcohol. PS, don't ever drink any wood alcohol.I once read somewhere one quart of it can kill. cuhulin On Aug 1, 2:23 pm, cuhu...@webtv.net wrote: > When I owned a 1970 Volkswagen van, somehow I got some water in the gas > tank.It made my van sputter to a stop and the engine wouldn't start back [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > it can kill. > cuhulin Rubbing alcohol is approximately 70% alcohol and 30% water, with some glycering thrown in. Don't use it in your tank. Get methyl hydrate. Dan > Rubbing alcohol is approximately 70% alcohol and 30% water, And its isopropyl alcohol, not methanol or ethanol on top of that. cuhulin@webtv.net wrote in article <866-46B0EBB3-726@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net>... > When I owned a 1970 Volkswagen van, somehow I got some water in the gas > tank.It made my van sputter to a stop and the engine wouldn't start back [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > it can kill. > cuhulin Check your labels. MOST rubbing alcohols are 70% - plus water. Dan_Thomas_nospam@yahoo.com wrote in article <1185997463.118490.235360@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>... > > Mike Romain <roma...@sympatico.ca> wrote in article > > <46ab6a9b$0$5187$9a6e1...@unlimited.newshosting.com>... [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > nitrogen, which makes up 78% of the atmosphere. But it still goes > through the engine. The term I was questioning was that the water would "burn through" the engine. Small amounts of water will, indeed, pass through a fuel system. Alcohol-based gas line antifreeze simply keeps the water from freezing in the lines, thus blocking them completely. I drive 50,000 miles per year, and I have not bought a single can of "dry gas" in more than 40 years of driving in New England. > Dan_Thomas_nos...@yahoo.com wrote in article > <1185997463.118490.235...@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>... [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > I drive 50,000 miles per year, and I have not bought a single can of "dry > gas" in more than 40 years of driving in New England.- Hide quoted text - The temperature of fuel is a major determinant of the amount of water it will carry in solution. Straight gasoline will absorb .02% water at 60?F, and less than half that at 20?F. As your fuel cools, water drops out of solution and shows up either as entrained water (tiny droplets in suspension) or as free water in the bottom of the tank. It's that free water that causes fuel line freezing. Adding alcohol to the fuel isn't intended to keep that free water from freezing; it's to keep the water in solution at low temperatures. See the graph (Fig. 2) here: http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/fuels/rfg/waterphs.pdf Then look at Fig. 1 and see how much more water gasoline with 10% ethanol will hold. I quote from that paper: "Water can enter gasoline engines in two ways: in solution with the fuel or as a separate phase from the gasoline." The term "solution" is critical: it means that the water is dissolved in the fuel, like sugar dissolved in water. Invisible, dispersed, homogenous. In our aviation textbooks, water dissolved in fuel is discussed, since it can get a lot more inconvenient in an airplane when the amount of water becomes a tad too high. Dan Dan_Thomas_nospam@yahoo.com wrote in article <1186082419.793240.47640@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com>... >>> The temperature of fuel is a major determinant of the amount of water it will carry in solution. Straight gasoline will absorb .02% water at 60°F, and less than half that at 20°F. You are talking "two, one-hundredths" of a percentage point here. Using your figures, that's approximately one-half ounce of water in a standard 20 gallon automotive gasoline tank at 60°F or one-quarter ounce at 20°F. Most of the freezeups occur with substantially more than that, and that is the range of water/alcohol/fuel mix we are talking. I have drained quarts of water out of customer fuel tanks. No amount of "dry gas" is going to blend that with 20 gallons of gasoline. >>> It's that free water that causes fuel line freezing. Adding alcohol to the fuel isn't intended to keep that free water from freezing; it's to keep the water in solution at low temperatures. See above..... In the case of the average automobile, "dry gas" IS, simply, "gas line antifreeze". > I have a '96 Blazer with water in the tank. My jet ski had water in the gas > tank and I drained it into a gas can intending to dispose of it properly. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Thanks. Water rolls around on the bottom of the tank. The fuel pump will suck it up and it should end up in your fuel filter if it's not too much. Take your fuel filter off and drain or replace it often for a while. Put a can of methanol or gas dryer in the tank. So you didn't say how much water we're talking about. SignatureBroderick Crawford Highway Patrol . . . > I have a '96 Blazer with water in the tank. My jet ski had water in the gas > tank and I drained it into a gas can intending to dispose of it properly. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Thanks. ======= ======= what Mike & Mike stated....... ditto.......use "Dry Gas" additive. ~:~ MarshMonster ~:~ "Marsh Monster" <MarshMonster2624@aol.com> wrote in message > what Mike & Mike stated....... > ditto.......use "Dry Gas" additive. Actually, methanol (Dry Gas, maybe) is a pretty marginal additive. It will work for minor contamination. Better is isopropanol, butanol blends, etc., with surfactants. Avoid the cheap blends. If you really have water contamination, you need major help. If you have lot of water in the tank, chemicals WONT cure it. You will have to drain the tank, refill with clean gas, add the best additives, and see what happens. I have been there, done that, and have researched it on the laboratory basis. > "Marsh Monster" <MarshMonster2...@aol.com> wrote in message > > what Mike & Mike stated....... [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > I have been there, done that, and have researched it on the laboratory > basis. ======== ======== yeah......there's always that too....... ~:~ mm ~takes a toke....defers to the expert on the topic~ ~:~ >I have a '96 Blazer with water in the tank. My jet ski had water in the gas >tank and I drained it into a gas can intending to dispose of it properly. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >best solution is to drain the tank, but the Blazer is not at my location >right now.) The water will settle out because it does not mix with gasoline. Adding some dry gas (methanol) will help it mix in, though. The bad news is that the water probably contains all kinds of crap as well. Which means even if you DO manage to burn all that gas up, you will want to change your fuel filter immediately afterward. Or make your kid change the fuel filter. --scott Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote in article <f8nejn$fo3$1@panix2.panix.com>... > The water will settle out because it does not mix with gasoline. Adding > some dry gas (methanol) will help it mix in, though. The water/alcohol (methanol, isopropyl, etc.) mix will ALWAYS be heavier than the gaoline, will sit on the bottom of the tank, and will never "mix" with the gasoline.....NEVER! > Scott Dorsey <klu...@panix.com> wrote in article > <f8nejn$fo...@panix2.panix.com>... [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > than the gaoline, will sit on the bottom of the tank, and will never "mix" > with the gasoline.....NEVER! ====== ====== yep, and there's that also........ ~:~ marsh ~takes another toke....and again, defers to the expert~ ~:~ >> The water/alcohol (methanol, isopropyl, etc.) mix will ALWAYS be heavier >> than the gaoline, will sit on the bottom of the tank, and will never "mix" >> with the gasoline.....NEVER! That's the job of a an emulsifier. You'll notice that part of the additive package of your gasoline is an emulsifier to try and keep small amounts of water in solution. Many of the gasoline additives (the Lucas stuff at least) contain added surfactants and emulsifiers. --scott Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." >>Scott Dorsey <klu...@panix.com> wrote in article >><f8nejn$fo...@panix2.panix.com>... [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > yep, and there's that also........ Not true. Water by itself will never mix with gasoline. Alcohol readily mixes with water. Alcohol (ethyl and methyl, at least) also readly mix with gasoline (and engine oil- a problem with running an engine on straight methanol or ethanol). Alcohol added to a water/gasoline combination allows the water to emulsify into the gasoline, which is why "dry gas" works to remove separated water from fuel lines and fuel tanks. Steve <no@spam.thanks> wrote in article <fYednUBp4pS9xS_bnZ2dnUVZ_qninZ2d@texas.net>... > >>Scott Dorsey <klu...@panix.com> wrote in article > >><f8nejn$fo...@panix2.panix.com>... [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > emulsify into the gasoline, which is why "dry gas" works to remove > separated water from fuel lines and fuel tanks. Again, "dry gas" only keeps the water in the tank and lines from freezing - much like the old alcohol anti-freezes used in post-war automotive cooling systems. I know you believe what the snakeoil salesman told you to tell your customers about "dry gas", but I would suggest you simply try mixing the various ingredients mentioned in a glass jar, and observe the results for yourself. You will neded less than a half-gallon of gasoline, so the entire experiment/learning experience shouldn't cost you $5.00USD.....a fairly inexpensive learning experience. Mix ANY two together, add the third, and the water/alcohol will precipitate to the bottom of the container.......period. Gas/alcohol......then water. Gas/water......then alcohol Water/alcohol......then gas ALL result in a water/alcohol mix sitting on the bottom of the container with the lighter-weight gasoline on top. I've done the testing. It's your turn to prove it to yourself, and to observe it with your own eyes. It's obvious that you're not going to believe anybody else, so p[rove it to yourself. > Steve <no@spam.thanks> wrote in article > <fYednUBp4pS9xS_bnZ2dnUVZ_qninZ2d@texas.net>... [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > various ingredients mentioned in a glass jar, and observe the results for > yourself. I've never in my life bought "dry gas." I live in central Texas. I don't care what sales literature for the stuff says in the least, and I don't have any stake in the debate. However, I did take chemistry. Sure, when you mix big slugs of water and alcohol and gasoline, you VERY QUICKLY reach the point where the water will not stay mixed. However, we're not talking about trying to dissolve 1/2 cup of water in a gallon of gasoline, of COURSE that will never happen. If you've got a few tablespoons of water in 25 gallons of gasoline, adding alcohol WILL ALLOW the water to dissolve into the gasoline and be carried harmlessly away. Without the alcohol, much less of the water will enter suspension. >> Steve <no@spam.thanks> wrote in article >> <fYednUBp4pS9xS_bnZ2dnUVZ_qninZ2d@texas.net>... [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] >gasoline and be carried harmlessly away. Without the alcohol, much less >of the water will enter suspension. Steve you are exactly right. And a member of my pit crew who is a chemist has also explained it to me in exactly the same way. It has nothing to do with snake oil salesmen and their literature. I am no more receptive to snake oil salemen than you are. Don www.donsautomotive.com > > Steve <n...@spam.thanks> wrote in article > > <fYednUBp4pS9xS_bnZ2dnUVZ_qnin...@texas.net>... [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > gasoline and be carried harmlessly away. Without the alcohol, much less > of the water will enter suspension. Right. The charts show what amount of water will stay in solution, and that's what we were referring to. The argument from some guys is that NO water will dissolve in fuel, which is the error. If the OP has much water in his tank he needs to drain the whole tank, and that might mean removing it. The fuel pump or pickup doesn't get the last bit of fuel out, so the water will remain there and cause corrosion sooner or later. And free water in the lines that is kept liquid by gas line antifreeze is sooner or later going to give trouble, too, and it's also unlikely that it will just lay there. It ends up in the filters, where its surface tension prevents normally prevents fuel flow through the filter and kills the engine. The gas line antifreeze is supposed to disperse it through the fuel to get rid of it. Dan > I have a '96 Blazer with water in the tank. My jet ski had water in the gas > tank and I drained it into a gas can intending to dispose of it properly. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Thanks. How about buying a length of hose and syphine all the fuel out let it sit till fuel and water seperate then syphine all the good gas out of the can and dump it back in. Pete |
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