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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / August 2007Top ten all american sports cars
Top ten all american sports cars http://mailone.blogspot.com/2007/08/ten-all-american-sports-cars.html > Top ten all american sports cars > http://mailone.blogspot.com/2007/08/ten-all-american-sports-cars.html 1) where's the list? 2) I can't think of ten American sports cars. There's the Corvette, the Solstice/Sky, and then you have to get real obscure... Muntz Jet, Kaiser Darrin, that's all I can think of off the top of my head. Unless you count specials like Old Yaller. nate  Signaturereplace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel > > Top ten all american sports cars > >http://mailone.blogspot.com/2007/08/ten-all-american-sports-cars.html [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > -- > replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel One of the first- at least the first postwar, American sports cars was the Crosley Hotshot/Supersport. It won Sebring one year. At least it won on the formula, which considered milage during the race AND displacement of the engine. The Hotshot only had 740cc (45 ci) so that gave it a BIG handicap advantage. I lusted over them when I was a kid, kind of forgot about them, and now I can't afford one 'cause they are so expensive! >> Top ten all american sports cars >> http://mailone.blogspot.com/2007/08/ten-all-american-sports-cars.html [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > nate Viper, Solstice, Fiero (justly deserved insults notwithstanding), Shelby Cobra (and its only half American.) I'm stuck after that. Back around 1952 (When I was a kid, about ten years old) I was riding with my dad and we stopped at a gas station.There was a Crosley station wagon car at the gas station.I asked my dad if he would buy that car for me. There really is ''something'' about quirky little cars. cuhulin > Back around 1952 (When I was a kid, about ten years old) I was riding > with my dad and we stopped at a gas station.There was a Crosley station > wagon car at the gas station.I asked my dad if he would buy that car for Don't forget the Crosley Hotshot sports car! To stretch the definition a bit you might also include the King Midget. A more conventional design but still rare would be the AMX two-seater built by AMC from 1968 to 1970. SignatureRoger Blake (Subtract 10s for email.) > >> Top ten all american sports cars > >>http://mailone.blogspot.com/2007/08/ten-all-american-sports-cars.html [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Viper, Solstice, Fiero (justly deserved insults notwithstanding), Shelby > Cobra (and its only half American.) I'm stuck after that. Ya got me on Viper (guess it didn't appeal to me so I didn't think of it,) but I'd exclude the Fiero (and also the Crossfire - pre-emptive strike there) due to the lack of a removable top. nate >>>>Top ten all american sports cars >>>>http://mailone.blogspot.com/2007/08/ten-all-american-sports-cars.html [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Ya got me on Viper (guess it didn't appeal to me so I didn't think of > it,) I almost excluded it because of sheer performance. Its more in the "exotic" class. but I'd exclude the Fiero (and also the Crossfire - pre-emptive > strike there) due to the lack of a removable top. Point taken. >> Solstice/Sky, and then you have to get real obscure... Muntz Jet, >> Kaiser Darrin, that's all I can think of off the top of my head. Unless >> you count specials like Old Yaller. > >Viper, Solstice, Fiero (justly deserved insults notwithstanding), Shelby >Cobra (and its only half American.) I'm stuck after that. Sheesh, you guys are BOTH missing the best product that Studebaker ever made... --scott Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." >>>Solstice/Sky, and then you have to get real obscure... Muntz Jet, >>>Kaiser Darrin, that's all I can think of off the top of my head. Unless [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Sheesh, you guys are BOTH missing the best product that Studebaker ever made... > --scott The Avanti? It kicks arse, but it's not a real sports car. Same could be said for the Golden Hawk, Speedster, Super Hawk etc. Studebaker never made a car after 1953 that wasn't based on either their generic sedan chassis (including the Lark and Avanti) or the C/K body chassis (coupe/hardtop, Speedster, Hawk, GT Hawk etc.) nate Signaturereplace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel >>> Solstice/Sky, and then you have to get real obscure... Muntz Jet, >>> Kaiser Darrin, that's all I can think of off the top of my head. Unless [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Sheesh, you guys are BOTH missing the best product that Studebaker ever made... The Hawk? <g,d&r> SignatureSpammer gets 30 years in the slammer Suddenly wishes Viagra was harder to come by <http://www.theregister.com/2007/08/02/spammer_gets_30_years/> >>> Top ten all american sports cars >>> http://mailone.blogspot.com/2007/08/ten-all-american-sports-cars.html [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Viper, Solstice, Fiero (justly deserved insults notwithstanding), Shelby > Cobra (and its only half American.) I'm stuck after that. I'm using wikipedia's definition of a sports car: "A sports car is an automobile designed for performance driving. Most sports cars are rear-wheel drive, have two seats, two doors, and are designed for precise handling, acceleration, and aesthetics. A sports car's dominant considerations can be superior road handling, braking, maneuverability, low weight, and high power, rather than passenger space, comfort, and fuel economy." And thus, in no particular order, here are the American Sporty Cars I can think of. Vette Viper Solstice/Sky Mustang Cougar Thunderbird Camaro/Firebird Fiero Dodge Charger Plymouth Laser/Eagle Talon (although they're half Japanese) Ford Probe Saleen S7 Vector Delorean Moser Raptor Panoz Note that not all versions of the above cars are that sporty, but I'm not getting that specific. I'm willing to give a half point to performance editions of certain other cars too, most of them being "sport coupes" such as the Beretta GTZ, Monte Carlo SS, and stuff, but they're not really sports cars. > I'm using wikipedia's definition of a sports car: Well that was a mistake... > "A sports car is an automobile designed for performance driving. Most > sports cars are rear-wheel drive, have two seats, two doors, and are > designed for precise handling, acceleration, and aesthetics. A sports > car's dominant considerations can be superior road handling, braking, > maneuverability, low weight, and high power, rather than passenger > space, comfort, and fuel economy." Two seat. NO rear seat. > Vette > Viper > Solstice/Sky Agreed... > Mustang > Cougar Nope, no way. > Thunderbird 1955 thru 1957 ONLY- but good catch, the rest of us forgot it completely. > Camaro/Firebird See Mustang (and Barracuda and Challenger are similarly disallowed, unfortunately. > Fiero I say yes, but "sports car" does connote a removable top most of the time. > Dodge Charger My personal favorite vehicle of all time particularly the 66/67 Fastbacks and the 68-70 "Coke Bottle" bodies), but not a sports car. I mean, all the Chargers can carry at least 4 people in reasonable comfort, if not 5 or even 6 (bench/bench seat versions). > Plymouth Laser/Eagle Talon (although they're half Japanese) > Ford Probe Nope. Two big strikes- front drive (although the Talon was available in AWD) and they've got a back seat. > Saleen S7 > Vector I'll have to look those up. > Delorean Hmmm. Qualifies on most things. Except that "performance" bit.... > Moser Raptor Do ONE-seaters count? :-) > Panoz > I'm willing to give a half point to performance editions of certain > other cars too, most of them being "sport coupes" such as the Beretta > GTZ, Monte Carlo SS, and stuff, but they're not really sports cars. Front-drive vehicles need not apply, even if they have 350 horsepower! Did anyone mention the AMX yet? If we allow non-convertibles then its gotta qualify. Strictly a 2-seater, plenty of performance. >> Delorean >Hmmm. Qualifies on most things. Except that "performance" bit.... I thought this was actually a British car. American engine, though, so the oil leak rule may not apply. --scott Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." Would Muntz qualify? www.americansportscars.com/muntz.html I wouldn't mind if I owned a Muntz car, I think they look tough.Muntz also built some tv sets for sale. cuhulin >>>Delorean >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > so the oil leak rule may not apply. > --scott I don't actually remember where the car was assembled nor where the body and chassis were built. But I do remember that the powerplant was the godforsaken PRV (Pugeot-Renault-Volvo) v6 that later went into the Eagle Premier. No power AND no reliability. The best of French engineering.... :-/ Steve Wrote: > >>>Delorean > >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Premier. No power AND no reliability. The best of French > engineering.... :-/ I'm glad nobody reads any of my posts. The Delorean was built in Belfast, Northern Ireland. SignatureHudson http://www.automotiveforums.com Sporty Cars. http://oldcarandtruckpictures.com/EarlyAmericanSportyCars cuhulin >>> Delorean >>Hmmm. Qualifies on most things. Except that "performance" bit.... > > I thought this was actually a British car. American engine, though, > so the oil leak rule may not apply. It was made in Northern Ireland and had a PRV (Peugeot/Renault/Volvo) V6 (Yuk!) > --scott Steve Wrote: > Front-drive vehicles need not apply, even if they have 350 horsepower! > > Did anyone mention the AMX yet? If we allow non-convertibles then its > gotta qualify. Strictly a 2-seater, plenty of performance. Sports cars can have more than 2 seats. Who's going to say that a Porsche 911 isn't a sports car? And sports cars can have front-wheel drive. The Ford Probe fits into this category as does the Lotus Elan (not fitting in this category because it's English). Scott Dorsey Wrote: > >Plymouth Laser/Eagle Talon (although they're half Japanese) > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Plymouth > name. The Chrysler Laser was different from the Plymouth Laser. The Chrysler Laser was entirely Chrysler Corporation designed while the Plymouth Laser was primarily a Mitsubishi design. I do have a problem with the Delorean being added to this list, since it's Irish with a French engine. The Bricklin was Canadian, which is far more American than the Delorean, but nobody's mentioned it. SignatureHudson http://www.automotiveforums.com > Steve Wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Sports cars can have more than 2 seats. Who's going to say that a > Porsche 911 isn't a sports car? Me, if it has a back seat. :-) Heck, I'm still wary of allowing fixed tops into the definition. > And sports cars can have front-wheel drive. No, they can't. No way, no how. There's no such animal. >> I'm using wikipedia's definition of a sports car: > > Well that was a mistake... lol, no it's not. :) dictionary.com: "sports car –noun a small, high-powered automobile with long, low lines, usually seating two persons." IMO, "sports car" is a fairly liberal definition that depending on how you look at it, can include stuff like Mustangs, or does not. It's one of those "you know it when you see it" - a Honda Insight seats two people, yet it's sure no sports car. It's like defining "Muscle Car" - to some people, because a Trans Am is a "pony car", that means it's not a muscle car... even though it basically came with the same engines as a GTO and was often faster... It's partly why I changed it to "sportY" car - I have a 2001 Trans Am and yet do NOT consider it a sports car. I had a Fiero, it was no sports car either. If two seats is a serious criteria, you have to include the first Firehawks (available as a two seater) and the Cobra R Mustang from a few years ago - it also only came as a two seater. Ray > dictionary.com: > "sports car > –noun > a small, high-powered automobile with long, low lines, usually seating > two persons." That really doesn't fit everything, either. Would you consider an early '60s Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce a sports car? Or an MGB? Or an MG Midget? I sure would and in fact I'd consider cars like those to be nearly defninitive examples of the class. But they certainly aren't "high powered" by any stretch of the imagination, not even when compared to contemporary vehicles. > IMO, "sports car" is a fairly liberal definition that depending on how > you look at it, can include stuff like Mustangs, or does not. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > a "pony car", that means it's not a muscle car... even though it > basically came with the same engines as a GTO and was often faster... You're quite right, although I would argue that there is a more widely bounded and accepted definition of "sports car" than there is of "muscle car." And being a 2-seater is pretty central to the definition. >> dictionary.com: >> "sports car [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > bounded and accepted definition of "sports car" than there is of "muscle > car." And being a 2-seater is pretty central to the definition. ok, how about this list of American (GM, Ford, Chrysler, etc...) two seater sports cars? 1. Vette 2. Viper 3. Solstice/Sky 4. Thunderbird 5. Ford GT40 6. Saleen S7 http://www.saleen.com 7. Mosler http://www.moslerauto.com 8. Fiero 9. Firehawk http://www.yearone.com/enthusiast/articles/3rdn4thperformancearticle/3_4th_perfa rt.html 10. Cobra R http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Mustang_SVT_Cobra 11. Vector http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_W8 12. AMX http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMC_AMX 13. Panoz Esperante http://www.panozauto.com all of them are two seaters. If they MUST be without a fixed roof, the list shrinks... 1. Vette 2. Viper 3. Solstice/Sky 4. Thunderbird 5. Panoz Esperante http://www.panozauto.com Ray > ok, how about this list of American (GM, Ford, Chrysler, etc...) two > seater sports cars? [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Ray I like both versions of the list, but I'd add the Plymouth Prowler to both. Retro-rod styling aside, it meets all the other requirements of both lists. And if we're going back to add the '55-57 Thunderchickens, there are a few other oldies that could be added. I don't even want to start thinking pre-war, it gets way too complicated. :-) Steve Wrote: > You're quite right, although I would argue that there is a more widely > bounded and accepted definition of "sports car" than there is of > "muscle > car." And being a 2-seater is pretty central to the definition. Odd...but the definition listed above says USUALLY a 2-seater. That's not "central to the definition." A 2+2 can be a sports car as well. SignatureHudson http://www.automotiveforums.com >> Thunderbird > 1955 thru 1957 ONLY- but good catch, the rest of us forgot it > completely. How about 2002-2005? They were two seat convertibles with a V-8. I don't see either of the recent Cadillac 2 seaters in the list (Allante and XLR) How about the Buick Reatta? And the Chrylser TC? Ed >>>Thunderbird >> >>1955 thru 1957 ONLY- but good catch, the rest of us forgot it >>completely. > > How about 2002-2005? They were two seat convertibles with a V-8. D'oh. Yes, although for some reason I've never been able to think of them as "real" T-birds. And I don't know why, really. > How about the Buick Reatta? And the Chrylser TC? I still don't think front-drives should be included personally. > >>>Thunderbird > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > D'oh. Yes, although for some reason I've never been able to think of > them as "real" T-birds. And I don't know why, really. Because there was no stickshift option, and no high-performance options at all. True story; at the time the "new" bird was introduced, SWMBO was working for Ford as an internal auditor. She was invited to some roll- out presentation, apparently to pump up the enthusiasm of Ford employees for their new products. She apparently ended up chatting with some powertrain engineer type and asked him if there were any plans down the road to introduce a SVT version, she suggested maybe a supercharged version as a homage to the Paxton/McCulloch equipped '57s. The engineer deferred answering the first part of the question and expressed skepticism that Ford had ever made a supercharged T- bird. I hope that that wasn't a *senior* powertrain engineer... nate (woulda loved to have been there) As far back as 1957, Ford offered Supercharged Thundrbird cars for sale.McCulloch centrifical supercharger, 300 Horsepower.Even I knew that. Do you remember those old Jiggs and Maggie comic strips? Back in the 1950s, Ford used to have some great big Jiggs poster boards hanging around in their factories.The Jiggs poster boards said, Sure, And Quality Counts! cuhulin On Aug 8, 11:47 am, cuhu...@webtv.net wrote: > As far back as 1957, Ford offered Supercharged Thundrbird cars for > sale.McCulloch centrifical supercharger, 300 Horsepower.Even I knew > that. So did I, simply because I used to have a Studebaker Golden Hawk, so it was good to know what parts interchanged with more common makes, e.g. if I saw a good deal on a "Ford Thunderbird supercharger kit" I knew that I could use the blower on a Studebaker :) > Do you remember those old Jiggs and Maggie comic strips? Back in the > 1950s, Ford used to have some great big Jiggs poster boards hanging > around in their factories.The Jiggs poster boards said, Sure, And > Quality Counts! > cuhulin I may like old cars, but no, there's no chance in heck of me remembering that. The chronology doesn't work :) nate World War Two Jeeps are also sort of known as the All American Wonder.I nominate those Jeeps as ''Sports Cars''. There is (or used to be) a World War Two Jeep in the Smithsonian Museum. www.devilfinder.com Brian's Military Jeeps cuhulin The engineer deferred answering the first part of the question > and expressed skepticism that Ford had ever made a supercharged T- > bird. I hope that that wasn't a *senior* powertrain engineer... Oh geez. I could envision similar comments from engineers at Chrysler following the mass exodus after the Diamler fuc^H^H^H^ takeover. But I think a little pocket of old-timers (or at least interested and knowledgable new-timers) survived somewhere deep in there. The big question now will be whether Nardelli runs *them* away :-( Space Shuttle Endeavor lifted off this afternoon.Now, that's a Real ''Sports Car''. cuhulin > The engineer deferred answering the first part of the question >> and expressed skepticism that Ford had ever made a supercharged T- [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > knowledgable new-timers) survived somewhere deep in there. The big > question now will be whether Nardelli runs *them* away :-( hey, at least Chrysler brought out some RWD cars after MB took them over. I almost bought a Magnum or a Charger when I was family car shopping. I woulda even bought a V6. We ended up with the Subaru Legacy Wagon tho, mostly because of cost, and partly because it had a stick, and partly because it was the first family car we could both agree on. Ray > The engineer deferred answering the first part of the question > and expressed skepticism that Ford had ever made a supercharged T- > bird. I hope that that wasn't a *senior* powertrain engineer... Ever? He also forgot the Thunderbird Super Coupe 1989-1995? >Plymouth Laser/Eagle Talon (although they're half Japanese) The Laser was Chrysler-badged. The Dodge Daytona was of course the same body with a smaller engine. Dunno if they sold the thing under the Plymouth name. My experience with these cars is that everything on them that was made in Japan just keeps running and running, and everything made in America falls off or breaks. --scott Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." >>Plymouth Laser/Eagle Talon (although they're half Japanese) > > The Laser was Chrysler-badged. The Dodge Daytona was of course the same > body with a smaller engine. Dunno if they sold the thing under the Plymouth > name. Wrong "Laser." You're thinking of the Dodge Daytona / Chrysler Laser (which they may have spelled 'Lazer') from the 80s, which was 100% Detroit. 2.2 (or 2.5L) Chrysler 4-cylinder power, though later I think they weighted it down with the POS Mitsubishi 3.0 v6 like they did the LeBaron. Awsome little cars, the turbo versions went like stink. There was even an IROC R/T version of the Daytona with the 2.2L 220HP DOHC turbo, which was incredibly fast. Sub 12 second fast. Unfortunately, the lifespan of the timing belt on that Lotus-head version of the engine was about 10k miles. It was basically a demostration engine that was put in limited production for enthusiasts. Very collectable cars now. He was talkng about the Eagle Talon/PLYMOUTH Laser/ Mitsushitti Eclipse from the 1990s, which regardless of badge was 100% Mitsubishi junk. What about the Saleen S7 or the Ford GT? Both highly desirable cars in my book. > Top ten all american sports carshttp://mailone.blogspot.com/2007/08/ten-all-american-sports-cars.html Before we try to name 3, 5 or 10 american made sports cars, just what exactly is a sports car. Two seats and a rag top would mean an Auburn Boat Tail would be included with the Thunderbird but the Mustang would be excluded. Seats up front with a sort of a seat in back for a few sacks of groceries, not really a front and rear seat car though.How about a rumble seat roadster car? cuhulin |
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