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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / October 2007electric window problem
Vehicle: 2000 Pontiac Grand Am 2-door Just recently my driver's window stopped working. Luckily it was in the up position. The driver's side window switch for the passenger's side works just fine. The dual switch is about $85 at the dealership and is non-returnable if it's not the problem. The question is can I ground any of the pin-outs on the connector to activate the window to make sure the switch is the problem? The last time this happened the window operated sporadically, and I knew it was the switch, this time the window will not open at all. Thanks MB > Vehicle: 2000 Pontiac Grand Am 2-door > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > MB Assuming sedan with V6 due to lack of info. Remove the switch but keep it connected at both connectors. Locate the 8 wire connector and the gray and dark blue wires within it. Turn the key to "run". Apply a positive jumper wire with some sort of narrow point to the gray wire (through the back of the connector) to lower the window. Apply jumper to dark blue wire in the same manner to raise the window. On those same two wires, you can check for continuity to ground to verify the ground side of the circuits. Use a DVOM or powered test light between the bare metal door striker on the body and each of these wires; expect to see near zero ohms (with switch plugged in, NOT pressing any buttons). Toyota MDT in MO > > Vehicle: 2000 Pontiac Grand Am 2-door > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Assuming sedan with V6 due to lack of info. It's the coupe, as I listed "2-door" at the top of my previous post, so I think the configuration could be different. MB> > Remove the switch but keep it connected at both connectors. Locate > the 8 wire connector and the gray and dark blue wires within it. Turn [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Toyota MDT in MO > > > Vehicle: 2000 Pontiac Grand Am 2-door > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > MB> ...that explains what engine you have. Well, thanks then, I guess. Toyota MDT in MO 3.4 V6. I thought you needed to know if it was a 2 door or 4 door, because obviously the electric window configuration is different. > 3.4 V6. I thought you needed to know if it was a 2 door or 4 door, > because > obviously the electric window configuration is different. All information is better than some information. I knew from experience that going beyond engine type would not matter, but the basics should always be a requirement if one is asking for help. And yes, I missed the two door part in the message header. The tests I outlined are the same except that there is only one connector to the master window switch on the coupe. You'll still find your gray and dark blue wires in the single connector, and they operate the exact same way. Toyota MDT in MO Thanks, I'm seeing a light blue and dark blue and a couple of hard to describe colors, but I'm not sure which would be gray. Also which would be the positive? They are labeled A-H when I look at the side of the harness. "A" is actaully a dual wire--two very thin wires in the same recepticle. With all the schematics that Haynes has, I'm surprised that they don't have one for the window connectors. Thanks MB > > 3.4 V6. I thought you needed to know if it was a 2 door or 4 door, > > because [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Toyota MDT in MO > I'm seeing a light blue and dark blue and a couple of hard to describe > colors, but I'm not sure which would be gray. Also which would be the > positive? See below. RE: positive -- each wire is either B+ or ground depending on the position of the switch. Again, just follow my diagnostic instructions to the letter. > They are labeled A-H when I look at the side of the > harness. "A" is actaully a dual wire--two very thin wires in the same > recepticle. D is dark blue, E is gray. These two wires should be as thick or thicker than any other wires in the connector since they supply motor current. The way it looks to me on Alldata is that terminals A-G each have a wire while H does not. So it is an 8 cavity conector with only 7 wires. I can't verify this without *seeing* it in person. Diagrams are sometimes inaccurate. The "double wires" at A are used to control the light inside the switch. You don't need to worry about that set of wires; they are considered one circuit for all practical purposes anyway. > With all the schematics that Haynes has, I'm surprised that they don't > have one for the window connectors. Speaking of inaccurate diagrams... Toyota MDT in MO It does have only 7 wires. Here's a rather poor cell phone pic, but should give some idea. http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j202/mkepalmer/connector.jpg I understand that the gray is down and blue is back up, but which wire do I jump these with to supply power? One of those has to be 12V or 5V in. Thanks MB > It does have only 7 wires. Here's a rather poor cell phone pic, but > should give some idea. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I jump these with to supply power? One of those has to be 12V or 5V > in. 12 volts. Motors operate on 12 volts in any car you are ever likely to see. The B+ feed from the 25A Power Window circuit breaker is a brown wire (G) at that connector. You may want to invest in a test light or DVOM to better help you help yourself. Toyota MDT in MO Thanks Combover. I've got a fairly good MM, so I guess I could have used that since when plugged in the connector is grounded. I'm just a little squeemish because I want to get 2 more years out of this car w/o smoking the electrical system. Thanks MB > > It does have only 7 wires. Here's a rather poor cell phone pic, but > > should give some idea. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Toyota MDT in MO Yes I knew the electrical system operates on 12V but I thought some devices were actually 8 or 5. I could be/am wrong. I know that molex connectors on a computer mother board operate at 5V even though the rest of the board is at 12. > > It does have only 7 wires. Here's a rather poor cell phone pic, but > > should give some idea. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Toyota MDT in MO In article <1193167366.848697.217690@v29g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, > It does have only 7 wires. Here's a rather poor cell phone pic, but > should give some idea. > > http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j202/mkepalmer/connector.jpg The gray wire is the one in between the two blue ones. From left to right they are a) gray=lights b) black=ground c) tan=right window d) dk blue=left window e) gray=left window f) lt blue=right window g) brown=12 volt positive > I understand that the gray is down and blue is back up, No, no, no... When the gray wire is positive and the blue wire negative, the motor runs in one direction. When the gray wire is negative and the blue wire is positive, the motor runs in the other direction. The motor itself is electrically isolated, there is no up or down wire, the motor runs in a particular direction depending on which of the two wires (gray and dk blue) is connected to positive and which is connected to ground. > but which wire > do > I jump these with to supply power? One of those has to be 12V or 5V > in. The brown wire is 12 volts positive. The black wire is ground. If you connect a jumper between the brown and blue and a jumper between the black and gray, the motor will run in one direction. If you connect a jumper between brown and gray and a jumper between black and blue, the motor will run in the other direction. > In article > <1193167366.848697.217...@v29g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > When the gray wire is positive and the blue wire negative, the Well, I could not get either window to come down by using the metal contacts on the back of the box. I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong or there is a better way? MB > motor runs in one direction. > When the gray wire is negative and the blue wire is positive, the [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > If you connect a jumper between brown and gray and a jumper > between black and blue, the motor will run in the other direction. In article <1193277925.713316.218900@q3g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, > > The gray wire is the one in between the two blue ones. > > From left to right they are [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > the box. I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong or there is a > better way? What "back of the box?" Un-plug the switch, verify 12 volts available by connecting a test light between the brown and black wires, then jumper the wires as earlier stated. On the opposite side of where the connector connects there are corresponding contacts little metal plates or contacts that I thought were for diagnosing the switch. Am I wrong? MB > In article > <1193277925.713316.218...@q3g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > test light between the brown and black wires, then jumper the > wires as earlier stated. In article <1193291199.454872.144500@t8g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, > On the opposite side of where the connector connects there are > corresponding contacts little metal plates or contacts that I thought > were for diagnosing the switch. Am I wrong? Why don't you just unplug the switch, set it aside and jumper the wires at the plug to see if the window motor runs? Brown to dark blue and black to gray, window motor runs one direction Brown to gray and black to dark blue, window motor runs in opposite direction. If the window motor runs, then it's the switch. If the window motor runs but the window doesn't move, it's the regulator. If the window motor doesn't run, it's likely the motor. Thanks, That's what I'm going to do as soon as it stops raining! Unfortunately no garage or car port. Thanks again MB > In article > <1193291199.454872.144...@t8g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > regulator. > If the window motor doesn't run, it's likely the motor. I get nothing at all. Checked the passenger's side and I'm able to raise and lower by jumper. So I guess it's the motor..? MB > In article > <1193291199.454872.144...@t8g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > regulator. > If the window motor doesn't run, it's likely the motor. > I get nothing at all. Checked the passenger's side and I'm able to > raise and lower by jumper. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Assuming the test was done properly, the motor or wiring from the switch to the motor in the driver's door is the culprit. There's a . 000001% chance your switch just happens to concurrently be defective too, but if motor is not spinning when you apply power and ground to it's two terminals (in both directions) then the motor is bad. Are you sure power and ground was available at the jumper points? This is why, several posts ago, I outlined specific tests step by step that anyone could follow, so I wouldn't have to answer ambiguous followup questions. Toyota MDT in MO > I get nothing at all. Checked the passenger's side and I'm able to > raise and lower by jumper. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Regarding my last response: I guess its fair to assume that you used the identical jumper points for the right and left window, so if the right side worked, then disregard what I said about being sure that your jumper points have valid B+ and ground. Toyota MDT in MO |
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