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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / November 2007

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Determining Rim Size Without Measuring

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phaeton - 03 Nov 2007 20:53 GMT
I have a 99 Ranger 4x2 with the stock steel 15" wheels.  All four of
them became *mysteriously bent* one day when I purchased new tires >:
(   Bent in the sense that they are all now somewhat 'oval' in shape
instead of a perfect circle.

Anyways.... it's no fun to drive on bent wheels, so I will need to
replace them.  I would like to get the same size to avoid having to
buy tires all over again.  Looking at the rims, I'm guessing 15x7, but
it's just a guess.  The tires on them are 225/70/15, and those are the
stock dimensions.

Is it reasonable to assume that 225mm tread width == 22.5cm tread
width == 8.8 inch tread width, and that the tread width and rim width
will be the same?  Thus, they are 15x8.75 or so?

Also, I can purchase new wheels or used wheels.  Is it reasonable to
assume that used aluminum wheels are less likely to be bent than steel
ones?  I always thought that aluminum would crack instead of bend, so
if they're not cracked they should be perfectly round.

Otherwise, I spose I can pick up some new and relatively inexpensive
steels from the Summit catalog, maybe locally.

Thanks for suggestions.
Tegger - 03 Nov 2007 23:46 GMT
phaeton <blahbleh666@hotmail.com> wrote in news:1194119588.600784.198020@
57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com:

> I have a 99 Ranger 4x2 with the stock steel 15" wheels.  All four of
> them became *mysteriously bent* one day when I purchased new tires >:
> (   Bent in the sense that they are all now somewhat 'oval' in shape
> instead of a perfect circle.

How did you conculsively determine the wheels were "bent" instead of the
tires simply being ineptly mounted?

Signature

Tegger

phaeton - 04 Nov 2007 00:02 GMT
> How did you conculsively determine the wheels were "bent" instead of the
> tires simply being ineptly mounted?
>
> --
> Tegger

I took them back to the tire shop, thinking they were improperly
balanced.  Multiple times.  Eventually, a half deaf kid that gave a
sh.t took the time to figure out why I had been in there so often, and
when he found the reason, he brought me out to the balancer to show
me.  I saw first hand that the wheels weren't round, in turn, as they
spun on the balancer without a tire on them.
« Paul » - 04 Nov 2007 00:16 GMT
> > How did you conculsively determine the wheels were "bent" instead of the
> > tires simply being ineptly mounted?
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> me.  I saw first hand that the wheels weren't round, in turn, as they
> spun on the balancer without a tire on them.

How do you know the balancer is not out of round?
Tegger - 04 Nov 2007 00:28 GMT
phaeton <blahbleh666@hotmail.com> wrote in news:1194130958.833269.141130
@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com:

>> How did you conculsively determine the wheels were "bent" instead of the
>> tires simply being ineptly mounted?
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> me.  I saw first hand that the wheels weren't round, in turn, as they
> spun on the balancer without a tire on them.

Were the wheels true on the balancer's shaft? I bet not.

Jack up one corner of your car. Spin that wheel by hand with the tranny in
neutral (wheel cover off). Observe the action of the rim. I'll bet all four
"bounce" not at all.

Your tire monkeys are inept (deaf or not). This is so distressingly common
it's depressing.

Signature

Tegger

Mike Romain - 04 Nov 2007 00:33 GMT
I don't believe the diagnosis, I suspect equipment failure.

That said, the rim size should be stamped on the inside of the dish.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...

> I have a 99 Ranger 4x2 with the stock steel 15" wheels.  All four of
> them became *mysteriously bent* one day when I purchased new tires >:
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> Thanks for suggestions.
ray - 04 Nov 2007 04:02 GMT
>> Is it reasonable to assume that 225mm tread width == 22.5cm tread
>> width == 8.8 inch tread width, and that the tread width and rim width
>> will be the same?  Thus, they are 15x8.75 or so?

as others have said, it's probably not bent wheels.

that said, you need to know the rim width, the bolt spacing, and the
offset.  None of which you'll know for sure without a measuring tape.
You don't even have to take the tire off to that.

Ray
Dan  Beaton - 05 Nov 2007 00:45 GMT
> I have a 99 Ranger 4x2 with the stock steel 15" wheels.  All four of
> them became *mysteriously bent* one day when I purchased new tires >:
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> Thanks for suggestions.

The Wheel Collision Center has an on-line catalog. They show 99 Rangers
with 15x7 wheels (other diamaters have different widths).

An aluminum wheel is less likely to bend because it is stronger, but
they will definitely bend. However, a steel wheel can often be straightened
with a hammer, but special tools must be used to straighten an aluminum
wheel.

New steel wheels ae probably the least expensive bet, but a set of used
aluminum wheels might be a good bet. Make sure to inspect an used wheel
carefully, and spin it on a wheel balancer to verify it is true.
Dan

(This account is not used for email.)
conan - 05 Nov 2007 13:52 GMT
> I have a 99 Ranger 4x2 with the stock steel 15" wheels.  All four of
> them became *mysteriously bent* one day when I purchased new tires >:
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> Thanks for suggestions.

I suggest going to the junk yard and getting some good used wheels.
Take a piece of cardboard and marker. Put the card board on the inside
of the wheel. Trace the bolt patterns and center hub area. take tire
size info with you and there you are. Cant miss just put the tracing
behind the wheels at the junk yard and match them up. If you can try
and find a place that will let you take the wheels off the junk car.
This way you can make sure the car hasnt been hit in the wheel or
something. Hope that helps

Pete
/dev/phaeton - 06 Nov 2007 00:34 GMT
Thankyou for all the suggestions.

Regarding bent or not, each of the four wheels have a 'flat spot' on the
inside flange- when the tire guy stopped the wheel from turning, it was
pretty distinctive.  There's a big 1" bare scuff in the rim where it
looks like something metal exerted force on it and pushed it in ("in" as
in perpendicular to the axle).  There is also a corresponding mark on the
inside of the wheel itself (the part that is horizontal when on the
vehicle).  On all four, the outside flange is fine.

The truck rolled fine and smooth with the old Firestones on it (almost
100K miles on them, no less).  After getting 4 new tires put on, I
noticed a 'wobble' leaving the parking lot, but it was cold out, and I
figured the tires were stiff and misshapen from sitting.  It smoothed out
a little on the street (40mph).  That evening I found that at freeway
speeds it is like sitting on a washing machine during spin cycle.  In wet
road conditions the vehicle is actually unstable (like driving too fast
on a washboarded gravel road). I took it back to them three times to have
them rebalance the tires, and nothing changed.  

I took it to a different shop to be rebalanced (a local reputable place
that unfortunately no longer sells new tires, but the old guy that owns
it knows his stuff.).  They didn't notice the wheels being bent
(strangely), but instead claimed that one of the tires was defective.  
They also questioned the large weights that were put on by the other
shop.  It shook just the same after that.

I took it to the original shop a fourth time. I told them what the 2nd
shop had stated, and they replied by telling me that my warranty is now
void because someone else touched them.  In any event, they still brought
it in to look at it.  The tech said "yeah, this tire has a 'hop' in it.  
That will settle down in a few thousand miles".  I called bullshit, I
demanded to speak to a manager, and did, and he had the deaf kid look at
my tires.  He's the one that pulled the tires off and showed me the
damage on my wheels.

So there it is.  I haven't been back since.

-phaeton
Nate Nagel - 06 Nov 2007 00:48 GMT
> Thankyou for all the suggestions.
>
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>
> -phaeton

The bend you describe sounds like it may have been caused by someone
less than skilled dismounting the tire, and catching the rim with the
bead breaker.  It could probably be pounded out with a hammer by someone
who knew what they were doing, but you'd have to dismount the tire again
to do that.

If the first shop's balancer was out of true, that could result in the
appearance of a wheel being more severely bent, and also explain the
poor balancing job with lots of weight.

Whether you choose to make a big deal out of the one tire that is
apparently defective is up to you, I guess.

nate

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replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

/dev/phaeton - 06 Nov 2007 01:16 GMT
> The bend you describe sounds like it may have been caused by someone
> less than skilled dismounting the tire, and catching the rim with the
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> nate

Well, that is my guess too.  The best determination I've come up with is
that:

1) The wheels were bent by the tire machine operator when I bought the
new tires.
2) #1 is going to be impossible to prove one way or the other.
3) The 'defective' tire isn't actually defective, it was simply on the
worstly bent wheel.  The runout on that one was about 1/2".  Defective
tire or no, the wheels are certainly hosed, and I am not skilled enough
to hammer them true.
4) Any amount of my bitching and screaming about this will do no good.
5) The only way for me to resolve this is to purchase new wheels and have
them mounted by a different shop.
Nate Nagel - 06 Nov 2007 01:30 GMT
>>The bend you describe sounds like it may have been caused by someone
>>less than skilled dismounting the tire, and catching the rim with the
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> 5) The only way for me to resolve this is to purchase new wheels and have
> them mounted by a different shop.

Or just have your wheels trued by a shop that knows what they're doing.
 If you are in the DC/Baltimore area Ye Olde Wheel Shop in Elkridge can
probably handle it, as could an old school corner garage mechanic with a
three pound hammer and a tire machine.  It's really not that hard; steel
has a memory and it wants to go back to its proper shape, it just needs
a little help.  You won't be able to do it yourself simply because you
don't have your own tire machine.  (I have used one of those manual
Harbor Freight tire changers; it works OK for 70 or 75 series tires,
albeit with a lot of grunting; but try, say, a 60 series performance
tire, you just can't bust the bead on one.  I should know, I tried :)  I
don't think it'd even scare a true low profile tire.

One thing that I do that I don't know if it really makes any difference
or not, but I do it anyway - even on my cars with steel wheels (like my
old Stude) I try to keep the wheels spotless inside and out; if the
insides are starting to rust I'll clean them up and wave a spray bomb at
them.  Likewise with suspension parts and alignments.  Then when I take
my car in to have tires mounted it looks like I'm really anal retentive
about my vehicle and maybe they'll take extra care with it.

Of course, that didn't stop someone from using a pipe wrench on the tie
rods of the Porsche (before I got it; it hasn't needed an alignment yet
in my care) despite the prominent presence of wrench flats on them.
Which caused a nice sliver of metal to go into my thumb, which required
digging out with a pocketknife and lots of squeezing etc...  thanks,
mystery alignment guy!

I tend to patronize higher priced shops with a more upscale clientele,
they tend to be more tuned in to customer service, as opposed to "it
works, dunnit?"  The Porsche goes to a local Porsche-centric race shop
for most repairs, and another local shop that does a lot of work on
expensive imports for general tire/alignment work.  Silly for a $3000
beater 944?  not if you want to keep it forever, IMHO...

nate

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http://members.cox.net/njnagel

ChrisCoaster - 06 Nov 2007 18:30 GMT
> > The bend you describe sounds like it may have been caused by someone
> > less than skilled dismounting the tire, and catching the rim with the
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> 5) The only way for me to resolve this is to purchase new wheels and have
> them mounted by a different shop.
______________________
Phaeton:
You asked for the third degree just by posting this issue here, and
you got it.
Not that you deserve it - but I could have told you in plain English,
and w/o pinning you to the wall with "twenty questions":

GET

NEW

RIMS

Case closed.
phaeton - 07 Nov 2007 03:49 GMT
> Phaeton:
> You asked for the third degree just by posting this issue here, and
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Case closed.

That's precisely what I am going to do.  I was asking here how to make
sure I got the right width. ;-)

Third degree?  Where?

-ph
ChrisCoaster - 07 Nov 2007 19:55 GMT
> Third degree?  Where?
>
> -ph- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Third degree - detective talk for level of questioning in a crime
interrogation!  ;)

Which is what you got here regarding your out-of-round rims.

-CC
phaeton - 08 Nov 2007 00:00 GMT
> Third degree - detective talk for level of questioning in a crime
> interrogation!  ;)
>
> Which is what you got here regarding your out-of-round rims.
>
> -CC

Oh... that was nothing. ;-)

-ph
 
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