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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / November 2007

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Manual Transmission Oil Change

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stu - 10 Nov 2007 16:43 GMT
I have an 04 Eclipse 2.4 with manual transmission- 50k

It was bought during a promotion that provided 3 years free scheduled
maintenance and an extended warranty from Mitsu.  The dealer has
provided the "free" maintenance.

At the last 2 visits (one free and one for fee after the 3 years) the
dealer has put extreme pressure on me to purchase a $90+ transmission
service- "preventative- you can pay me $90 now or $1900 when the
transmission fails".  He claims that any "warranty" claim on the
transmission in the future will be denied unless I do the work "NOW!"
yet it was not done during the "free scheduled" period.

I have driven only stick shift cars since I was 16 and have NEVER
heard it necessary to change transmission oil as a preventative
measure.  I'm not grinding gears, and my previous Eclipse (2000) never
had this service.

Is the dealer just trying to rape me, or is there something I'm
missing here.

thanx
Stu
Mike Romain - 10 Nov 2007 17:01 GMT
> I have an 04 Eclipse 2.4 with manual transmission- 50k
>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> thanx
> Stu

You need to read the fine print in the Warranty.  If is says 'scheduled
service intervals' or anything like that in it, the $tealership is right.

You should be able to have a 3rd party do the work though if they are a
warranty approved shop and you save the receipt.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
'New' frame in the works for '08
boxing@sasktel.net - 10 Nov 2007 20:15 GMT
I have never heard of changing the transmission oil in a vehicle with
a standard transmission. I generally just make sure that the
transmission oil level is not low. What does your owners manual say
about transmission oil change intervals? I change to engine oil every
3,000 miles. I would think the transmission oil should last the life
of the vehicle.
Scott Dorsey - 11 Nov 2007 05:23 GMT
>I have never heard of changing the transmission oil in a vehicle with
>a standard transmission. I generally just make sure that the
>transmission oil level is not low. What does your owners manual say
>about transmission oil change intervals? I change to engine oil every
>3,000 miles. I would think the transmission oil should last the life
>of the vehicle.

That all depends on how long you want the life of the vehicle to be.
--scott
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"C'est un Nagra.  C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Nate Nagel - 11 Nov 2007 05:52 GMT
>>I have never heard of changing the transmission oil in a vehicle with
>>a standard transmission. I generally just make sure that the
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> That all depends on how long you want the life of the vehicle to be.
> --scott

Exactly.  I would say 50K miles is a good interval for changing any
transmission fluid (automatic or manual) unless a shorter interval is
recommended in your owner's manual.  Likewise with the differential (if
it is separate.)

NO FLUID will last the life of a vehicle, if you expect the life of the
vehicle to be 2-300K miles, which is easily achievable with most cars
with proper maintenance.  Besides, a good synthetic will really make a
difference in cold weather.

nate

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tylernt - 12 Nov 2007 16:25 GMT
Some manufacturers, like VW back in the 70s and 80s, say MTX fluid is
a lifetime fluid and never needs to be changed. Obviously if your car
has a specification you should follow it, but if there is no spec then
anywhere from 50K to 100K miles would be a reasonable interval -- if
the vehicle isn't towing trailers or drag racing then I wouldn't be
too nervous about going to 100K. I've also upgraded all my cars to
Redline synthetic fluid as well, it's great for winter shifting.

Doing it yourself isn't a bad job (well, I suppose that depends on the
location of the fill plug). I got one of those gravel vacuums from an
aquarium -- use it upside down and you can snake the tube into the
fill hole and pour from above (uh, don't use it in the aquarium after
that). Just make sure you can remove the fill plug BEFORE removing the
drain plug!! Getting fluid into the trans via the drain hole is a real
bear. ;)
Pete C. - 12 Nov 2007 18:09 GMT
> Some manufacturers, like VW back in the 70s and 80s, say MTX fluid is
> a lifetime fluid and never needs to be changed. Obviously if your car
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> drain plug!! Getting fluid into the trans via the drain hole is a real
> bear. ;)

The little plunger pump with extended hose that is sold under the
LubriMatic name works well. Just put the hose in the fill hole, put one
finger in the hole to feel for the oil level and just pump away until
it's at the correct level. Less chance of overdoing it and dumping oil
everywhere than the aquarium vac / long funnel method.
Nate Nagel - 10 Nov 2007 22:43 GMT
> I have an 04 Eclipse 2.4 with manual transmission- 50k
>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> thanx
> Stu

It sounds like he's pressuring you hard to do it; in reality the
transmission of your car isn't going to suddenly turn into scrap if you
don't change the fluid.  HOWEVER - if you plan on keeping this car a
long time, I'd definitely change it anyway.  IMHO there is no such thing
as a "lifetime" fluid, despite the fact that many mfgrs. have no
recommended service intervals for various important parts.  If the stock
fluid isn't synthetic, I'd suggest finding a good synthetic that meets
the mfgrs. specs.  (I am partial to Red Line, but there are other brands
of good synthetics out there.)  Since it's going to be in there for at
least another 3-4 years likely, might as well pay a little extra for the
good stuff.

nate

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Scott Dorsey - 10 Nov 2007 23:04 GMT
>I have an 04 Eclipse 2.4 with manual transmission- 50k

That sounds like it's about time to do the first fluid change.

>It was bought during a promotion that provided 3 years free scheduled
>maintenance and an extended warranty from Mitsu.  The dealer has
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>transmission in the future will be denied unless I do the work "NOW!"
>yet it was not done during the "free scheduled" period.

What does the manual say?  The owner's manual has a schedule in the back
that tells you when required maintenance is.  Odds are it says that
the first transmission fluid change is around 50kmi.

Incidentally, now that the car is yours and you don't have to deal with
the "free" maintenance, you should be using the "severe service" schedule
in the manual rather than the "regular service" one.  It is a bit more
conservative and following it will make your car last longer.

>I have driven only stick shift cars since I was 16 and have NEVER
>heard it necessary to change transmission oil as a preventative
>measure.  I'm not grinding gears, and my previous Eclipse (2000) never
>had this service.

You need to change transmission fluid now and then.  Every 50kmi seems
about right to me.  Doing it on the Eclipse is a bloody pain too, so you
probably want to get someone else to do it.  It drains out easily, but
getting the new fluid back up into the hole on the top is a pain.  Ask
a competent independant mechanic, who will almost certainly charge less
than the dealer.

>Is the dealer just trying to rape me, or is there something I'm
>missing here.

If you do it yourself, look at the fluid that comes out and the fluid
that goes in.  Feel it with your fingers.  You'll know right away why
transmission fluid changes are important.  
--scott
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"C'est un Nagra.  C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

C. E. White - 13 Nov 2007 21:58 GMT
>I have an 04 Eclipse 2.4 with manual transmission- 50k
>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> thanx
> Stu

Look at your maintenace schedule. The online version shows that you should
change the transmission fluid every 30,000 miles only under the severve
service maintenance schedule. There is no change interval for "normal"
service. See http://www.mitsubishicars.com/MMNA/jsp/owners/both.do.
Mitsubishi defines severve service as:

Select the schedule for Severe Maintenance if most of your driving is done
under one or more of the following conditions:
. 50% of driving is done in heavy city traffic during hot weather.
. Extensive idling and/or low speed operations (stop-and-go traffic).
. Extended use of brakes while driving (stop-and-go traffic).
. Repeated short trips with engine not fully warmed up, especially in
freezing temperatures.
. Dusty, rough, muddy, sandy, or salt-spread roads.
. Vehicle is used for towing.

Only the towing requirement really affects the transmission fluid. It seems
that all the Japanese manufacturers call for manual transmission fluid
replacement every 30 k miles under severe service conditions. The various
Japanese manufacturers have subtle variations in when/how the severe service
conditions apply. Toyota makes it clear that you only need to change the
manual transmission fluid every 30 k miles if you use the vehicle for
towing.

Personally I think changing the fluid every 30K miles is ridiculously
conservative. GL-5 Gear Oil (or ATF) is subjected to test equivalent to
250,000 miles of use in large trucks transmissions. There is little chance
the fluid will degrade solely as a result of driving 30K miles in a
reasonable period of time (3 or 4 years). A bigger concern is the build-up
of moisture in the fluid.  For this reason, I'd suggest changing the fluid
based on time, rather than mileage. Personally I would change manual
transmission fluid every 3 years or 50k miles which ever occurs first. There
is little chance that a good quality fluid will degrade in that time. And
realistically, you probably could go 6 years / 100k miles with little chance
of damage. And if you use synthetic fluids, then 150k miles is not
unreasonable, as long as moisture contamination is minimized.

Ed
 
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