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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / November 2007

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oil change on a standard transmission

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boxing@sasktel.net - 12 Nov 2007 11:33 GMT
I tried doing some searches to see what the manufacturers recommend.
The only one I could find was BMW recommended a standard transmission
oil change at 30,000 miles.
cavedweller - 12 Nov 2007 13:37 GMT
On Nov 12, 6:33 am, box...@sasktel.net wrote:
> I tried doing some searches to see what the manufacturers recommend.
> The only one I could find was BMW recommended a standard transmission
> oil change at 30,000 miles.

Usually covered in the FSM.  Example: Chrysler manual transaxle
vintage 1989 says lubed-for-life "under normal operating conditions".
Uses SAE5W-30 as fill.
Tegger - 12 Nov 2007 13:58 GMT
boxing@sasktel.net wrote in news:1194867211.722489.92460
@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com:

> I tried doing some searches to see what the manufacturers recommend.
> The only one I could find was BMW recommended a standard transmission
> oil change at 30,000 miles.

Honda and Toyota wants you to change the fluid every 30K or two years.

Signature

Tegger

C. E. White - 12 Nov 2007 14:16 GMT
> boxing@sasktel.net wrote in news:1194867211.722489.92460
> @i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Honda and Toyota wants you to change the fluid every 30K or two
> years.

Why do you say that? I just looked at the Toyota and Honda schedules -
They say to INSPECT the manual transmission oil every 30,000 miles
unless you are using the vehicle for towing, then you are to replace
it. If you aren't towing, apparently it is good for the life of the
vehicles. Personally, I'd change it every 30K to 50k even if I wasn't
towing.

I wonder, what happens to manual transmission fluid when towing that
is so hard on it? Manuals don't heat fluid to nearly the degree that
automatic do.

Ed
Tegger - 12 Nov 2007 20:38 GMT
"C. E. White" <cewhite3@removemindspring.com> wrote in news:473860c5$1
@kcnews01:

>> boxing@sasktel.net wrote in news:1194867211.722489.92460
>> @i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> unless you are using the vehicle for towing, then you are to replace
> it.

The Toyota schedule I'm looking at (Tercel) has an "R" in the fields for
the MT fluid service. "R" means "replace". There are numerous fields
that say "I" in them, but the MT fluid ones are not amoung them.

I just looked through a half-dozen Honda schedules. All of them also
say "R" every 30K. No "I"s in sight.

> If you aren't towing, apparently it is good for the life of the
> vehicles. Personally, I'd change it every 30K to 50k even if I wasn't
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> is so hard on it? Manuals don't heat fluid to nearly the degree that
> automatic do.

From my readings, it has to do with the polymer chains that are
responsible for the oil's viscosity and film strength. Gear action
literally chops up the chains, making them shorter. The shorter the
chains, the lower the oil's viscosity and lesser its film strength.

Signature

Tegger

cuhulin@webtv.net - 12 Nov 2007 22:39 GMT
I never have changed the transmission oil (manual shift transmissions)
in any of my vehicles before.Mostly because I used to buy a used car or
truck or van and drive it for a two or three years and when I got tired
of it, I would trade it in on some other old used car or truck or van I
wonder how many people change the differential oil/fluid in their
vehicles? I never have done that either, well, except for one vehicle
many years ago.1978 Dodge van is what I drive, it has a automatic
transmission. (I plan on hanging on to that van as long as I am able to
drive) Is 90 W oil/fluid what I should buy for the differential?
cuhulin
Nate Nagel - 12 Nov 2007 22:58 GMT
> I never have changed the transmission oil (manual shift transmissions)
> in any of my vehicles before.Mostly because I used to buy a used car or
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> drive) Is 90 W oil/fluid what I should buy for the differential?
> cuhulin

check your owner's manual, but probably.  If it has a limited slip rear,
make sure you buy the additive, or a fluid specifically labeled for
limited slips.

nate

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replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

cuhulin@webtv.net - 12 Nov 2007 23:15 GMT
I bought that 1978 Dodge van in late 1989.It didn't have the owners
manual with it.I don't know if it is a limited slip differential or
not.I think there is an easy way to find out by jacking up both of the
rear wheels.Seems to me I once read something about that many years
ago.If I change the old fluid out, would it make much difference if I
add some of that additive? What is a good brand name for the additive?
When I get under there, I will also check the vent on top of the housing
and make sure it isn't clogged up.
cuhulin
C. E. White - 13 Nov 2007 13:46 GMT
>> Why do you say that? I just looked at the Toyota and Honda
>> schedules -
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> the MT fluid service. "R" means "replace". There are numerous fields
> that say "I" in them, but the MT fluid ones are not amoung them.

<http://smg.toyotapartsandservice.com/>

Input 1997 Corolla, 30,000 miles. You get:

Replace engine oil and oil filter
Replace engine air filter
Replace engine coolant
Replace non-platinum spark plugs 1
Rotate tires
Inspect the following:
 Ball joints and dust covers
 Brake linings/drums and brake pads/discs
 Drive shaft boots (re-torque flange bolts)
 Exhaust pipes and mountings
 Fuel lines and connections, fuel tank band and fuel tank vapor vent
system hoses
 Fuel tank cap gasket
 Rack and pinion assy. for leakage
 Steering linkages
 Transmission and differential oil

They don't go back any further than 1997, so no Tercels :(

> I just looked through a half-dozen Honda schedules. All of them also
> say "R" every 30K. No "I"s in sight.

I did the same thing at the Honda Owners Site (it requires a log in).
For a 1997 Honda Civic, here is the 30,000 mile service:

30,000 miles/2 yrs Scheduled Maintenance
Recommended service for your 1997 Honda Civic:

Check valve clearance when the engine is cold. Do not check/adjust
them again unless they become noisy.
Replace engine oil.
Rotate tires. Follow the pattern shown in the Owner's Manual. Check
tire inflation and condition.
Replace engine oil filter.
Inspect front and rear brakes.
Check pads and discs for wear (thickness) and damage.
Check calipers for leaks and check tightness of mount bolts.
Check brake lining (or shoes) for cracking, glazing, wear and
contamination.
Check wheel cylinders for leaks.
Inspect tie-rod ends, steering gearbox and rack boots.
Check steering linkage for looseness.
Check fluid lines for damage and leaks.
Inspect suspension components.
Check bolts for tightness.
Check condition of ball joint boots for deterioration and damage.
Inspect driveshaft for cracks and check boot bands for tightness.
Check parking brake adjustment. Should be fully applied within 6 to 9
clicks.
Inspect brake hoses and lines (including ABS). Check the master
cylinder, proportioning controlvalve and ABS modulator for damage and
leakage.
Check all fluid levels, condition of fluids and check for leaks. If
needed, add transmission fluid, engine coolant, brake fluid, power
steering fluid, and windshield washer fluid.
Inspect cooling system hoses and connections.
Check for damage, leaks and deterioration.
Check for proper fan operation.
Inspect exhaust system. Check catalytic converter heat shield, exhaust
pipe, and muffler for damage, leaks, and tightness.
Inspect fuel lines and connections. Check for leaks.
Replace air cleaner element.
Inspect and adjust drive belts.
Replace spark plugs. (all models except SI model).
Replace CVT fluid (HX model with CVT); use Genuine Honda CVT fluid.

I got the same result for a 1998 Accord.

>> If you aren't towing, apparently it is good for the life of the
>> vehicles. Personally, I'd change it every 30K to 50k even if I
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> literally chops up the chains, making them shorter. The shorter the
> chains, the lower the oil's viscosity and lesser its film strength.

I have farm tractors that are running on 15 year old transmssion/rear
end/hydraulic system fluid. There is no way an automotive transmission
is stressing the fluid even close to what a farm tractor does.

Ed
Tegger - 13 Nov 2007 14:14 GMT
"C. E. White" <cewhite3@removemindspring.com> wrote in news:4739ab2f$1
@kcnews01:

>>> Why do you say that? I just looked at the Toyota and Honda
>>> schedules -
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Input 1997 Corolla, 30,000 miles. You get:

Or you can look at this:
http://www.camrymanuals.com/manuals/99/99_Scheduled_Maint_Guide.pdf

30K replacement is specifed for "Special Operating Conditions", defined
near the front of that document. My area (the North-east) is definitely
"Special Operating" territory.

> They don't go back any further than 1997, so no Tercels :(

Our Tercel is a 1999 model year, the last one. The US only got the
Tercel through '98.

I have the Toyota factory shop manual for that car, which was my source
for the 30K replacement assertion.

>> I just looked through a half-dozen Honda schedules. All of them also
>> say "R" every 30K. No "I"s in sight.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> 30,000 miles/2 yrs Scheduled Maintenance
> Recommended service for your 1997 Honda Civic:

I'm not using online resources. I'm looking at the Maintenance Schedule
as printed in actual Honda-published paper shop manuals. I looked
through six of them. Same thing in all.

>> From my readings, it has to do with the polymer chains that are
>> responsible for the oil's viscosity and film strength. Gear action
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> end/hydraulic system fluid. There is no way an automotive transmission
> is stressing the fluid even close to what a farm tractor does.

Your tractor breaks, you can use another one. I only have one car; I
like to err on the side of caution. I drive 24K per year, so the tranny
fluid gets replaced every year.

Signature

Tegger

C. E. White - 13 Nov 2007 14:50 GMT
> "C. E. White" <cewhite3@removemindspring.com> wrote in
> news:4739ab2f$1
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> definitely
> "Special Operating" territory.

Did you actually read the manual you linked me to? They have very
specific changes in the schedule listed for variuos special operating
conditions. Here is a list of the various "Special Operating
Conditions" and which maintenance items are affected for each special
operating condition (this is directly from your reference):

Driving on Rough, Muddy or Snow-Melted Roads
. Rotate tires
. Inspect ball joints and dust cover
. Inspect brake linings/drums and brake pads/discs
. Inspect drive shaft boots
. Inspect nuts and bolts on chassis and body
. Inspect steering linkage
. Re- torque drive shaft flange bolts*
. Lubricate propeller shaft and re- torque bolts*

Driving on Salt-Covered Roads
. Lubricate propeller shaft and re- torque bolts*

Driving on Unpaved or Dusty Roads
. Inspect brake linings/drums and brake pads/discs
. Inspect or change engine air filter
. Lubricate propeller shaft and re- torque bolts *

Extensive Idling or Low-Speed Driving for Long Distances
. Inspect brake linings/drums and brake pads/discs

Towing a Trailer or Using a Camper or Car-Top Carrier
. Inspect brake linings/drums and brake pads/discs
. Inspect nuts and bolts on chassis and body
. Replace differential oil
. Replace transmission fluid or oil
. Replace transfer oil*
. Lubricate propeller shaft and re- torque bolts*

So unless you are "Towing a Trailer or Using a Camper or Car-Top
Carrier" they don't require you to change the tranmssion fluid at 30k
miles. This is exactly the same as for the Toyota Site I linked to.

>> They don't go back any further than 1997, so no Tercels :(
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> source
> for the 30K replacement assertion.

I assume you are following the severe service schedule.

>>> I just looked through a half-dozen Honda schedules. All of them
>>> also
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>> 30,000 miles/2 yrs Scheduled Maintenance
>> Recommended service for your 1997 Honda Civic:

> I'm not using online resources. I'm looking at the Maintenance
> Schedule
> as printed in actual Honda-published paper shop manuals. I looked
> through six of them. Same thing in all.

And I bet you are looking at the "Special Operating Conditions"
schedule. Read what it says (all of it, not just the actual schedule).
The special operating condition that requires tranmssion fluid changes
at 30k miles is trailer towing,. This is exactly what the online
schedule calls for as well. But must people (probably including you)
are not operating there cars in a manner that requires the special
operating conditions (even if that is what Jiffy Lube wants you to
believe). Here is what Honda says:

Follow the "severe" schedule only if you drive in one or more of these
conditions most of the time:

Trips of less than 5 miles (less than 10 in freezing weather)
Extremely hot weather (over 90 degrees F)
Extensive idling or stop-and-go driving
Trailer towing, car-top carrier, or mountain driving
Muddy, dusty, or de-iced roads

Notice - MOST OF THE TIME.

>>> From my readings, it has to do with the polymer chains that are
>>> responsible for the oil's viscosity and film strength. Gear action
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>> transmission
>> is stressing the fluid even close to what a farm tractor does.

> Your tractor breaks, you can use another one. I only have one car; I
> like to err on the side of caution. I drive 24K per year, so the
> tranny
> fluid gets replaced every year.

LOL, I don't guess you know much about farming. .If my tractor breaks
during planting season, I can loose more money than your car is worth.
I only have one tractor that pulls my largest equipment, and getting
another one involves spending $100,000 or more.

Ed
Tegger - 20 Nov 2007 02:01 GMT
"C. E. White" <cewhite3@removemindspring.com> wrote in news:4739ba25$1
@kcnews01:

<snip, starting afresh...>

As far as Toyota goes, you appear to be right. Toyota is far more lenient
than Honda when it comes to manual transmission fluid changes. I'd like to
know why.

Honda, though, specifies manual tranny fluid changes at between 75 and 90K
for "regular" service, and 30K for "severe" service. "Severe" service
covers all of Canada plus much of the US northeast.
See here:
https://techinfo.honda.com/rjanisis/logon.asp
Choose "Owner's Manuals" from the nenu at left, then navigate to your car.
No login required.

Signature

Tegger

Scott Dorsey - 13 Nov 2007 18:57 GMT
>I tried doing some searches to see what the manufacturers recommend.
>The only one I could find was BMW recommended a standard transmission
>oil change at 30,000 miles.

Look in your owner's manual.  It's in there.
--scott
Signature

"C'est un Nagra.  C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

 
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