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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / December 2007Crankshaft Position Sensor replacement
2000 Silverado 5.3L, 4X4, 167K I need to replace the Crankshaft Position Sensor. The manual states that after replacement it must be connected to a scan tool for a "CKP System Variation Learn Procedure". Is this something that needs to be done at a dealership or can it be done with a generic scan tool? Is there a way to do it without a scan tool? Thanks for any advice, Al Bottoms Up Divers In article <6TX%i.28938$if6.3484@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, > 2000 Silverado 5.3L, 4X4, 167K > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Al > Bottoms Up Divers It doesn't have to be done at a dealership, most high end scan tools can perform the crank variation relearn. Auto Enginuity, Snap-On, OTC, Ease, etc. Thanks for your quick response, I have a friend with a high quality scan tool (don't know the brand) but he's away for a few days so I couldn't ask him. If I install the sensor at home would I be able to drive to his shop (about 6 miles) or do I need to do the learn procedure before I drive it.? Al Bottoms Up Divers > In article > <6TX%i.28938$if6.3484@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Auto Enginuity, Snap-On, OTC, Ease, etc. You can drive the truck without doing the learn procedure. > Thanks for your quick response, I have a friend with a high quality scan > tool (don't know the brand) but he's away for a few days so I couldn't ask > him. > > If I install the sensor at home would I be able to drive to his shop (about > 6 miles) or do I need to do the learn procedure before I drive it.?  SignatureMike Walsh I got the new sensor in today but we weren't able to do the learn procedure. It seems to run fine (only drove it about six miles home). Is it possible that I won't have to do it? I am going to the dealer Monday for an unrelated recall, should I ask them to do it even if it's still running fine? Al Bottoms Up Divers > You can drive the truck without doing the learn procedure. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> (about >> 6 miles) or do I need to do the learn procedure before I drive it.? >I got the new sensor in today but we weren't able to do the learn procedure. >It seems to run fine (only drove it about six miles home). Is it possible >that I won't have to do it? I am going to the dealer Monday for an unrelated >recall, should I ask them to do it even if it's still running fine? It is running fine, but it will run BETTER if you do the procedure. It will only take five minutes and save you hundreds of dollars in gasoline over the long run.... --scott Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." >> I got the new sensor in today but we weren't able to do the learn procedure. >> It seems to run fine (only drove it about six miles home). Is it possible [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > long run.... > --scott The crank relearn is for misfire diagnostics only. When I worked for used car lots I used to 'teach' GM's how to idle right on a regular basis after extended periods of no power connected up. The procedure was to drive for 5 miles staying 'under' 30 mph, then shut it down. Start up again and drive another 5 miles keeping under 30, then shut it down again. One more repeat of this and then bring it up to speed. After that they all just purred at idle. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 'New' frame in the works for '08 > I got the new sensor in today but we weren't able to do the learn procedure. > It seems to run fine (only drove it about six miles home). Is it possible [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >>> (about >>> 6 miles) or do I need to do the learn procedure before I drive it.? That is how my Beretta was. The older it got the more the sensors went out of range and it took several cold to warm cycles to get it back in calibration after disconnecting the battery. Many sensors e.g. throttle position and temperature that must output a signal that varies according to a varying input will gradually change there performance over time, but a crankshaft position sensor should not have this problem because all it does is put out a pulse when a metal piece goes by the sensor. > When I worked for used car lots I used to 'teach' GM's how to idle right > on a regular basis after extended periods of no power connected up. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > After that they all just purred at idle. SignatureMike Walsh In article <47445db1$0$20805$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com>, > When I worked for used car lots I used to 'teach' GM's how to idle right > on a regular basis after extended periods of no power connected up. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > 'New' frame in the works for '08 What does this have to do with the OPs vehicle? > In article > <47445db1$0$20805$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com>, [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > What does this have to do with the OPs vehicle? Umm, I thought a 'Silverado' was a GM, so I told him the GM Learn procedure. Sorry if I am off on that.... Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 'New' frame in the works for '08 In article <4745af3e$0$29223$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com>, > > What does this have to do with the OPs vehicle? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > 'New' frame in the works for '08 His question was about doing a crankshaft position sensor variation relearn, not an idle relearn. > In article > <4745af3e$0$29223$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com>, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > His question was about doing a crankshaft position sensor > variation relearn, not an idle relearn. When the power has been off for extended periods, 'everything' has reset and has to go through a learning process. All the ones I did just purred after on customer's test drives so it must have learned how to run everything during this 'learn' it would seem.... Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 'New' frame in the works for '08 > > His question was about doing a crankshaft position sensor > > variation relearn, not an idle relearn. > > When the power has been off for extended periods, 'everything' has reset > and has to go through a learning process. The power has been off on the OPs vehicle? To change a crankshaft position sensor? > All the ones I did just purred after on customer's test drives so it > must have learned how to run everything during this 'learn' it would > seem.... Different learn procedure, which is not necessary for the part replaced by the OP. >>> His question was about doing a crankshaft position sensor >>> variation relearn, not an idle relearn. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Different learn procedure, which is not necessary for the part > replaced by the OP. So you are saying he has to go to the $tealership and pay them big bucks just to reset the CPS? What happens to the OP's vehicle if it also loses all power like my example? He then has to be ripped off 'just' to reset the CPS vs just taking it for a controlled drive like I have done dozens of times to make them run right again????? You are not making much sense to me..... Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 'New' frame in the works for '08 In article <474615cd$0$24739$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com>, > > Different learn procedure, which is not necessary for the part > > replaced by the OP. > > So you are saying he has to go to the $tealership and pay them big bucks > just to reset the CPS? I think it was my first reply to the OP that stated otherwise. There are numerous scan tools that can initiate the crankshaft position sensor relearn procedure, and how do you know that the dealership will want "big bucks" to begin with? > What happens to the OP's vehicle if it also loses all power like my > example? Nothing other than he'd have to resolve and repair the loss of all power. Disconnecting the battery is not going to require a crank sensor relearn. > He then has to be ripped off "ripped off?" If you had to pay say $4000 for a tool and another $2000 per year to maintain it, at what dollar amount would you decide fair from rip off? > 'just' to reset the CPS vs just > taking it for a controlled drive like I have done dozens of times to > make them run right again????? A test drive will not initiate a crank sensor relearn, it is a command issued by the (a) scan tool, a REAL scan tool. > You are not making much sense to me..... Mike, exactly how many MY 2000 Chevy trucks have you replaced the crankshaft position sensor on? Better yet, take that down to MY 1996 and up to MY 2008 since that is the model year range of GM truck that requires a crank sensor relearn. The reason I'm (this) is not making any sense to you is because you more than likely don't understand the procedure and when and why it is required. Google is your friend. (but I'm glad to help any way I can) > In article > <474615cd$0$24739$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com>, [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > position sensor relearn procedure, and how do you know that the > dealership will want "big bucks" to begin with? The $tealership wants an hour labour to plug the suckers in up here which 'is' big bucks. (over a hundred these days, the cheapest plug in is something like $85.00) So the long and the short of it is that Chevy or GM has decided to pull a blatant rip off by not allowing a part which is a common failure be installed by the owner so it will function properly. That is a rip off of the worst kind! At least Jeep which has a massive number of CPS failures still allows one to just change the thing without having to fork out a hundred bucks! > "ripped off?" > If you had to pay say $4000 for a tool and another $2000 per year > to maintain it, at what dollar amount would you decide fair from > rip off? Creating 'fake' programming scenarios like 'having' to program a replacement CPS just to justify owning a tool 'is' a rip off of the worst kind. Sorry you have to carry such an overhead for the tool, but.... Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 'New' frame in the works for '08 In article <4746ec03$0$32387$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com>, > > In article > > <474615cd$0$24739$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com>, [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > which 'is' big bucks. (over a hundred these days, the cheapest plug in > is something like $85.00) Given the costs of processing the RO, labor and tooling, they're probably not making much for their trouble. > So the long and the short of it is that Chevy or GM has decided to pull > a blatant rip off by not allowing a part which is a common failure be > installed by the owner so it will function properly. Not necessarily a common failure part. > That is a rip off of the worst kind! It is what it is. > At least Jeep which has a massive number of CPS failures still allows > one to just change the thing without having to fork out a hundred bucks! Yeah, but they make up for it with their leaks like a sieve AC evaporators, failure prone blend door controllers, body computers that go tango uniform... > > "ripped off?" > > If you had to pay say $4000 for a tool and another $2000 per year [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > replacement CPS just to justify owning a tool 'is' a rip off of the > worst kind. What if it justifies the accuracy of the missfire monitors? > Sorry you have to carry such an overhead for the tool, but.... 'Tis just the tip of the iceberg... Power window switches will need programming, EPS (Electronic Power Steering) columns will need recalibration when front end alignments are done, etc. So I think the answer was "NO". You do not have to take this to the dealer! You just have to plug it in and make sure it is mounted correctly. It is a solid state device and if it is the exact same replacement, you should not have any issues. How many miles you have on it? In article <2d806bb4-38b2-42ef-8431-55f3eb391730@o6g2000hsd.googlegroups.com >, "geofreesparts@adelphia.net" <geofreesparts@adelphia.net> wrote: > So I think the answer was "NO". You do not have to take this to the > dealer! Correct, any shop with a Tech 2, Snap-On MT-2500/Solus/Solus Pro/Modis, OTC Genysis, Ease, Auto Enginuity or other scan tool with manufacturer enhanced capability can perform the relearn. > You just have to plug it in and make sure it is mounted > correctly. Kind of goes without saying, no? > It is a solid state device and if it is the exact same > replacement, you should not have any issues. Once the relearn is performed. > How many miles you have on it? Irrelevant. > In article > <2d806bb4-38b2-42ef-8431-55f3eb391...@o6g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Pro/Modis, OTC Genysis, Ease, Auto Enginuity or other scan tool > with manufacturer enhanced capability can perform the relearn. It is a magnetic pick up.... Nothing more! No learned process is necessary!!!! > > You just have to plug it in and make sure it is mounted > > correctly. > > Kind of goes without saying, no? If it were not mounted correctly they would probably have to pay you for a relearn process :) > > It is a solid state device and if it is the exact same > > replacement, you should not have any issues. > > Once the relearn is performed. Only if you mount it incorrectly :) > > How many miles you have on it? It is about failure times :) and may have escalated into something else. Thus teaching us to ask questions to get data and come up with a better understanding of one another. > Irrelevant. In article <d297379e-cac6-4ceb-8383-e465383d579e@l6g2000prm.googlegroups.com >, "geofreesparts@adelphia.net" <geofreesparts@adelphia.net> wrote: > > In article > > <2d806bb4-38b2-42ef-8431-55f3eb391...@o6g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > It is a magnetic pick up.... Nothing more! No learned process is > necessary!!!! GM service publications state otherwise. > > > You just have to plug it in and make sure it is mounted > > > correctly. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > If it were not mounted correctly they would probably have to pay you > for a relearn process :) Or; even if it is mounted correctly. > > > It is a solid state device and if it is the exact same > > > replacement, you should not have any issues. > > > > Once the relearn is performed. > > > Only if you mount it incorrectly :) Or if you merely replace it, or the timing cover. RTFM. > > > How many miles you have on it? > > It is about failure times :) and may have escalated into something > else. Thus teaching us to ask questions to get data and come up with a > better understanding of one another. Time better spent understanding the service procedure(s). > In article > <d297379e-cac6-4ceb-8383-e465383d5...@l6g2000prm.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > GM service publications state otherwise. What does the rest of the auto industry do when replacing magnetic pickups? > > > > You just have to plug it in and make sure it is mounted > > > > correctly. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Or; even if it is mounted correctly. Or if you want to pay for it, you of course can. > > > > It is a solid state device and if it is the exact same > > > > replacement, you should not have any issues. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Or if you merely replace it, or the timing cover. RTFM. What happens if you do not do the relearn? > > > > How many miles you have on it? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Time better spent understanding the service procedure(s). Won't argue knowledge is power :) In article <7dcdaac4-7713-4f9e-8552-f5bb681e4f5a@w56g2000hsf.googlegroups.co m>, "geofreesparts@adelphia.net" <geofreesparts@adelphia.net> wrote: > > In article > > <d297379e-cac6-4ceb-8383-e465383d5...@l6g2000prm.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > What does the rest of the auto industry do when replacing magnetic > pickups? Well, some follow the recommended procedures and some don't follow the recommended procedures. The ones in the latter choice are usually left wondering why the vehicle doesn't perform as it should/why parts failed. Then I make money off of them. > > > > > You just have to plug it in and make sure it is mounted > > > > > correctly. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Or if you want to pay for it, you of course can. Or; if you don't want to pay for it, you can pay even more money when the collateral damage occurs. > > > > > It is a solid state device and if it is the exact same > > > > > replacement, you should not have any issues. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > What happens if you do not do the relearn? Ignition timing will not necessarily be correct, misfire monitors will not be accurate. Possible bad results; broken piston rings and/or ring lands, worn or deformed rod bearings, clogged/melted/plugged catalytic converters, excessive emissions, emissions test failures, damaged spark plugs, phantom driveability problems/phantom trouble codes. (just to name a few) > > > > > How many miles you have on it? > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Won't argue knowledge is power :) If the service procedures call for a realearn or resynch: Professionals like us have the proper equipment and do it the way it is supposed to be done. Buy a scanner if you're going to give any advice, and I suggest you get some update information so you can learn for your self. 1970's books do not apply to modern cars. RK >> In article >> <d297379e-cac6-4ceb-8383-e465383d5...@l6g2000prm.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > > Won't argue knowledge is power :) The truck has 167K on it. I'm not complaining if I have to do a relearn after that many miles, I just wanted to know if it was really necessary. One of the other posters said I could drive it five miles under 30 mph restart and drive another five miles under 30 mph. I'm 60 years old and I still have trouble driving 30 mph 300 feet in a school zone. I'd rather pay for the relearn then drive 10 miles under 30 mph! Al Bottoms Up Divers > So I think the answer was "NO". You do not have to take this to the > dealer! You just have to plug it in and make sure it is mounted > correctly. It is a solid state device and if it is the exact same > replacement, you should not have any issues. > > How many miles you have on it? In article <SH22j.47980$if6.7875@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, > The truck has 167K on it. I'm not complaining if I have to do a relearn > after that many miles, I just wanted to know if it was really necessary. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Al > Bottoms Up Divers You won't have to drive 30 MPH Al, that poster had the crank relearn confused with an idle relearn. a good quility scan tool can do the relearn if the software is in it but a few drive cycles and you might get lucky > 2000 Silverado 5.3L, 4X4, 167K > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Al > Bottoms Up Divers 1997 Nissan Pathfinder 4WD, 3.3L Crankshaft Postion Sensor. Has anyone ever replaced this sensor on this model nissan. If so can you give me the basics. I need to know if I have to remove anything in order to access the sensor. Do I have to remove the upper intake riser? tranny? Which direction do I attempt to access the sensor? Underneath or from the top? Thanks for the reply, I was thinking of having AAA tow it for five miles. :) Al Bottoms Up Divers > 1997 Nissan Pathfinder 4WD, 3.3L Crankshaft Postion Sensor. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > riser? tranny? Which direction do I attempt to access the sensor? > Underneath or from the top? |
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