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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / November 2007

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Digital dash repair - 1988 Olds Toronado

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lgerhardx@hotmail.com - 21 Nov 2007 17:35 GMT
Ok, time for an update.

Per the discussion here prior, I tried resoldering all the connections
on my IPC.  Actually, I resoldered everything, but only on the circuit
board that didn't have the VFDs on it.

Still no change, but here's where it gets weirder, and makes me think
that the IPC is not my problem...

1) I've tried an IPC from both a 1986 and a 1989 Toronado.  Both of
them were 'working' pulls.  Especially the 1986 one--it was in my
other Toronado and I never had *any* IPC problems with it.  Both units
lit up, and the 1989 one complained of an 'electrical problem',
understandably so due to the year difference.  Anyway, both of them
worked initially, but when I tried them later after my original IPC
started failing more often, they both are dead too.

2) I was trying to isolate the connection between why my climate
control switches to '- - -' when the IPC goes black.  In doing so,
I've waited for the IPC to fail, then I shut off the car and pulled
the IPC entirely and started the car.  The display still read '- -
-'...so I am making the minorly-educated assumption that the IPC and
CC are being driven by a separate device that is failing...the BCM
perhaps?  Note: I've also pulled just the CC to see if it was shorting
and causing the problem with the IPC.  No effect.

3) My interior lights.  When the IPC and CC are functional, I can
slide the interior dimmer switch all the way up and the interior
lights all come on.  When the system is spazzed out (IPC and CC are
failing), this does not work, and no interior lights come on when I
slide it all the way up.  I have pulled the glove box and the relay
that is triggered by the switch is fine.

My thoughts: The BCM is failing.  I looked at the schematics for this
car, and all of the failing systems: the IPC, the CC, and the interior
light dimmer control run *THROUGH* the BCM (Body Control Module).
Other things that still function, such as turn signals, exterior
lights, seat adjustments, door locks, window adjustments, rely on
direct hardware and don't seem to be as dependant on the BCM.

So, my question now is: does my hypothesis seem valid?  Has anyone had
similar experience?  My worry is that I've tried three IPCs here, and
two of them should have worked fine.  BUT, when the system is spazzed,
none of them come up.  I can't just assume they are all flaky.

Do I have a valid idea in blaming the BCM and wanting to replace it,
or is there a glitch in my theory?

Thanks in advance!!  I really appreciate all the help!
lgerhardx@hotmail.com - 21 Nov 2007 17:38 GMT
Sorry, the original thread (which I thought I was joining) can be seen
at: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.tech/browse_thread/thread/d9f58ddc3e759
183/0f27a02c8f02d593?hl=en

Mike Romain - 21 Nov 2007 17:57 GMT
> Ok, time for an update.
>
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
>
> Thanks in advance!!  I really appreciate all the help!

I have seen the BCM's go nuts due to a failed body ground.  On the GM's
it it usually a mesh strap from a bell housing bolt to the firewall with
a small back up wire from the battery negative to the fender.  When the
mesh one dies, the small one will melt the insulation, then itself
eventually.  The body will try to steal grounds through other working
components causing odd failures like you describe.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
'New' frame in the works for '08
lgerhardx@hotmail.com - 21 Nov 2007 18:06 GMT
> lgerha...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > Ok, time for an update.
[quoted text clipped - 59 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

So, just to clarify, I should be able to find this under the
hood...will I need to remove anything to be able to find it?  I read
something about this mesh strap, but with just a superficial look I
didn't see anything that stood out as such.

Also, if that is the problem, it is something I can replace myself?

Thanks!!
Mike Romain - 21 Nov 2007 20:08 GMT
>> lgerha...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> Ok, time for an update.
[quoted text clipped - 58 lines]
>
> Thanks!!

It should be pretty obvious.  On the rear wheel drive GM's it is on the
passenger side usually.  They rot off so you might just be looking for a
loop connector under a bolt with a stub of mesh on it.

When the one on my Jeep went, I used a battery cable with two loop ends
to replace it.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
'New' frame in the works for '08
lgerhardx@hotmail.com - 21 Nov 2007 20:24 GMT
> lgerha...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >> lgerha...@hotmail.com wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 72 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

Cool.  Mine's a front wheel drive, but like you said it hopefully will
be quite obvious.  Worst-case, I have the repair manual.  Thanks for
the tip, I'll check it out tonight!
lgerhardx@hotmail.com - 21 Nov 2007 22:36 GMT
On Nov 21, 3:24 pm, lgerha...@hotmail.com wrote:

> > lgerha...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > >> lgerha...@hotmail.com wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 78 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

Okay...I am sooooo stuck here.  It's either so totally gone, or I just
don't see it at all.  I did a quick search online, and found something
that sounds like the part:
http://www.rockauto.com/dbphp/mak,OLDSMOBILE,1988,TORONADO,1226056,3.8L%2B231cid
%2BV6%2BMFI%2B%2528C%2529,Electrical,2716,Body%2BElectrical%2BGround%2BStrap


...is that it?  Then...where??  Here's a scan of the engine
compartment as shown in the repair manual (which does not mention
anything about where to find such a strap):
http://www.idcts.com/images/_newsgroup/EngineCompartment1.jpg

The picture looks mostly like my compartment, except the coil pack
unit is just to the left of what is labeled #9.  Can anyone draw me a
big red circle?  ;)  If needed, I can run out and take a photo of
mine.

I'm just not seeing it, or I don't have it clearly in mind.  I really
appreciate the help!
Pete C. - 21 Nov 2007 22:48 GMT
> On Nov 21, 3:24 pm, lgerha...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >
[quoted text clipped - 98 lines]
> I'm just not seeing it, or I don't have it clearly in mind.  I really
> appreciate the help!

No expert on this vehicle, but I'm pretty sure you should be looking
from underneath the vehicle. You're looking for what's left of a flat
braided copper strap, probably 1/2"-3/4" wide x 1/8" thick that would
connect between a bolt on the engine / trans and the vehicle frame. For
whatever idiotic reason they like to use braided copper ground straps
with no protection from corrosion, and then locate them under the
vehicle where they'll see the most water, salt and other chemicals to
destroy them. I second the idea of using a "normal" battery type cable
to replace it.
lgerhardx@hotmail.com - 21 Nov 2007 23:06 GMT
> lgerha...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 112 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

Awesome!  I never would have thought of that!!  :)  Thanks a ton!
I'll check it out!
Steve W. - 22 Nov 2007 04:07 GMT
> Okay...I am sooooo stuck here.  It's either so totally gone, or I just
> don't see it at all.  I did a quick search online, and found something
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> I'm just not seeing it, or I don't have it clearly in mind.  I really
> appreciate the help!

Here is an easy solution. Don't bother looking for the ground strap.
Just add a new strap and be done with it.
First find a nice handy bolt on the engine, One of the ones on the front
accessory brace would work (item just to the right of the #9) Or one on
the back of the rear head if it's got a spare. Then clean the area REAL
well, and bolt one end of the cable there. Then attach the other end to
a handy bolt on the chassis (one of the strut tower brace bolts would work)

Signature

Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York
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lgerhardx@hotmail.com - 22 Nov 2007 15:54 GMT
> > Okay...I am sooooo stuck here.  It's either so totally gone, or I just
> > don't see it at all.  I did a quick search online, and found something
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

That sounds like a decent idea.  I still have to see the strap...it's
just that I've tried to figure this problem out for so long, that I
would so much love to look under there and see this rotting vestige of
a strap there.  I guess I'd just like to have something concrete that
I can point at and say with confidence: 'there's my problem!'.

Although, I imagine that even if it appears to be perfectly intact, if
it has become loose at either end that could be just as bad.  Oh
well.  :)

Thanks for the great idea!
 
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