 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / November 2007Directional or NON directional tires? What to buy? Cooper?
Tech at a local garage advised me to ONLY buy NON directional tires so they can be properly rotated form side to side and front to back. He said that its impossible to do that with directional tires since they can only be rotated front to back. Is this good advice? To only buy NON directional tires solely? He also advised Cooper CS4 H/V as a VERY good non-directional tires. What you say? >Tech at a local garage advised me to ONLY buy NON >directional tires so they can be properly rotated form [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >He also advised Cooper CS4 H/V as a VERY good >non-directional tires. What you say? Oh forgot I have a 2000 Mazda Protege ES car if that matters. It was out of alignment and has worn my current tires improperly > Tech at a local garage advised me to ONLY buy NON > directional tires so they can be properly rotated form [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > He also advised Cooper CS4 H/V as a VERY good > non-directional tires. What you say? Personally, I'd agree with that. I won't be buying directionals again. It's easier to keep the tires wearing evenly if you can switch sides as part of the rotation. The blocks tend to develop a sharp edge at the lead edge and a rounded edge at the trail. Eventually the tread assumes a sort of "sawtooth" pattern, which is very evident when you run your hand each way on the tread. I believe this contributes to tire noise. Side-to-side rotation greatly minimizes the "sawtooth" tendency.  SignatureTegger >Personally, I'd agree with that. I won't be buying directionals again. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Side-to-side rotation greatly minimizes the "sawtooth" tendency. Yep....exactly what this auto tech said as well Hmm.... learn something new I guess my next set of tires will NOT be directional. Any advice on the Cooper tires he advises? > Tech at a local garage advised me to ONLY buy NON > directional tires so they can be properly rotated form [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > He also advised Cooper CS4 H/V as a VERY good > non-directional tires. What you say? What does your owners manual call for for rotation? Mine calls for a front to back rotation only so directional tires would make no matter. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 'New' frame in the works for '08 > m...@privacy.net wrote: > > Tech at a local garage advised me to ONLY buy NON [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > What does your owners manual call for for rotation? Mine calls for a > front to back rotation only so directional tires would make no matter. Yeah, I have heard from various sources that the direction of rotation shouldn't be changed on radial tires after they've been in service. nate >> What does your owners manual call for for rotation? Mine calls for a >> front to back rotation only so directional tires would make no matter. > >Yeah, I have heard from various sources that the direction of rotation >shouldn't be changed on radial tires after they've been in service. Radial tires have improved a lot, over the years since they were the brand-new concept. In the mid '70s, cord separations were a near-certainty within 1000 miles, if you reversed rotation by swapping side-to-side. Having worked in automotive service during the introduction and development of radials, I got in the habit of NEVER rotating tires across the car, only front/rear. That practice has served well enough: I have had multiple sets of Michelin X radials last 80,000 miles. "the fly" <tsetse51@swbell.net> wrote in message > Having worked in automotive service during the introduction > and development of radials, I got in the habit of NEVER rotating tires > across the car, only front/rear. That practice has served well > enough: I have had multiple sets of Michelin X radials last 80,000 > miles. Ive had the same luck, fly. But the Michelins DO need to be rotated. I got some unusual wear pattern when I got sloppy with the rotation interval.. But the tires are lasting, as you say, 60-80,000 miles. I have used Coopers, but not the ones the OP has cited. My luck with them is good, but I have found them to be noisier, in general, than my Michelins. N8N <njnagel@hotmail.com> wrote in news:bf93aa9a-08e2-47e4-879f- a373581a0b8c@b32g2000hsa.googlegroups.com: >> m...@privacy.net wrote: >> > Tech at a local garage advised me to ONLY buy NON [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Yeah, I have heard from various sources that the direction of rotation > shouldn't be changed on radial tires after they've been in service. That may have been true at one time, but it most certainly is not now. I think the "same side" concept persists because the cross-car myth allows the clueless tire monkey to blame that for the vibration resulting from his lousy mounting job. SignatureTegger > That may have been true at one time, but it most certainly is not now. > > ... The manual for my new CR-V says to cross-rotate except for directional tires or wheels... "M.M." <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in news:vni1j.21155$ck5.11288 @newsfe09.phx: >> That may have been true at one time, but it most certainly is not now. >> >> ... > > The manual for my new CR-V says to cross-rotate except for directional > tires or wheels... Our '99 Tercel factory manual also says to cross-rotate. SignatureTegger Cross rotating: Helps keep the belts from bunching. You can cross rotate directionals for about 50 miles, and that will help stop the pulling. RK PS Before you contest this, I recommend you read the Goodyear and Khumo tire service manuals, and the Bridgestone/Firestone store said they do that for pulling. > "M.M." <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in news:vni1j.21155$ck5.11288 > @newsfe09.phx: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Our '99 Tercel factory manual also says to cross-rotate. > > Cross rotating: [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > tire service manuals, and the Bridgestone/Firestone store said they do > that for pulling. I just did a quick check of www.goodyear.com and www.kumhotire.com and am unable to find any reference to the assertion you make. Have you got a URL handy? SignatureTegger Sorry: I just saw it in the manuals that my wholesalers had. One day, I might be able to swindle a photocopy and post it. Tire companies have a lot of non public information. I think it's all part of helping sell their sh.t.I used to be a Good Year, and nothing but Good Year seller, now whatever the customer wants is what I sell. RK >> Cross rotating: >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Have you got a URL handy? >> I just did a quick check of >> www.goodyear.com [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > One day, I might be able to swindle a photocopy and post it. If you are unable to easily "swindle" a copy of the manuals even though you're in the industry, why would you suggest a non-industry man attempt to obtain a copy online? > Tire companies have a lot of non public information. Including stuff you originally claimed was online but is actually not? > I think it's all part of helping sell their sh.t.I used to be a Good > Year, and nothing but Good Year seller, now whatever the customer > wants is what I sell. I'm afraid you're not very convincing. You appear to be backing and filling where you can't provide supporting evidence for your claims. SignatureTegger Excuse me but, I never made a claim that this information was online. As for your assumptions. I guess you keep yourself in that crack induced daze. RK >>> I just did a quick check of >>> www.goodyear.com [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > filling > where you can't provide supporting evidence for your claims. > Excuse me but, > > I never made a claim that this information was online. You are right and I apologize. But I find it kind of difficult to believe the belts could be "bunching". Seems to me if they were actually shifting like that every time the tire rotation was reversed that the tire would eventually fall apart. The only tire Service Manuals I've been able to find are for truck tires. And they make no mention of belt stability. I've found some mention of "bunching" in documents describing tire manufacturing, but these do not seem to relate to any sort of belt shift during use. SignatureTegger Hello: The main reason tires pull and wobble is that: 1- The belts tear, and you get a bulge in one area, no matter how small it is. It will cause pulling or a distinct bump, higher at higher MPH. 2- Belts separate, and again you'll have a lump on the tire, or a low spot. (Sort of the scenario where a tire always looks low, no matter how much air is in it.) 3- Cords bunch, and the tire actually becomes like a wavy lock washer. If you roll it, It will wobble more than roll. Sometimes these imperfections, are so small, that you can not really see it. So that's where your sense of feel comes in. Rotating removes these problem areas, or at least move the belts or cords to their appropriate areas. This happens to directional tires too. That's why the manufacturers say in their proprietary manuals to rotate. Hunter makes a balancer, which I think is called the: "Roadforce" and it tells you at least 4 different ways to set up the questionable tire. Even to mount a directional tire backwards on a rim, and reverse the rotation. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding, but I'm sure if you know a Good Year, or a Bridgestone/Firestone technician. They'll tell you what their factory manual says. RK >> Excuse me but, >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > manufacturing, but these do not seem to relate to any sort of belt shift > during use. > Hello: > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > 3- Cords bunch, and the tire actually becomes like a wavy lock washer. > If you roll it, It will wobble more than roll. It's been my personal and extensive experience that most tire vibration is due to poor mounting. Most tire "techs" seem to be poorly trained and use the wrong procedures (and materials) for mounting the tire. Many times I have seen condemned tires redeemed simply by remounting them properly. The definitive test: Raise car off the ground so the tires are in the air. Start the engine, put the transmission in gear, and allow the engine to idle. If one wheel does not spin, give it a push-start with your hand to get it going. If the tire tread does not spin *dead-true*, it has been badly mounted and will vibrate, either now or later. The tread on an improperly mounted tire can wobble side to side, hop up and down, or both. If you study the side of a wobbly/hoppy tire immediately adjacent to the rim, you can often see how the bead is unevenly seated, with some parts seated deeper into the rim than others. The worst part is that a newly-mounted tire that has been improperly mounted can seem OK at first, but will get worse over time as the tread wears unevenly. Unfortunately, the tire will get blamed, not the monkey who installed it. SignatureTegger >Tech at a local garage advised me to ONLY buy NON >directional tires so they can be properly rotated form [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >He also advised Cooper CS4 H/V as a VERY good >non-directional tires. What you say? That is kind of like asking which is right, democrats or republicans. Those that rotate front to back won't be dissuaded and those that rotate side to side still preach it from the street corners. Personally I only do the front back thing mostly because I'm to cheap to have it done and to lazy to do the side to side thing. I have had a couple sets of Cooper tires and have been happy with them. I don't have any experience with the model in question but the company as a whole seems to be ok. Steve B. |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2008 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.