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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / December 2007

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scifi channel movie scientifically impossible

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z - 11 Dec 2007 21:06 GMT
OK, I can accept that there might be 40 foot long freshwater giant
squid living in lakes. Might be.

I can accept that fishing boat engines will suddenly make horrible
clanking noises and send up clouds of smoke (like Jaws!) just when you
need them the most. Could be.

But I can't believe that after that, when the skipper goes below to
see if he can fix the engine, it's going to turn out to be "just the
fuel pump"
N8N - 11 Dec 2007 21:09 GMT
> OK, I can accept that there might be 40 foot long freshwater giant
> squid living in lakes. Might be.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> see if he can fix the engine, it's going to turn out to be "just the
> fuel pump"

you think that's bad, watch "My Cousin Vinny" sometime.  You'd think,
if the whole plot twist hinges on the girl being an expert on 60's
automobiles, they might actually have an automotive expert as a
consultant to fact-check...

nate

(in ur livinroom, screamin at ur TV)
Tegger - 12 Dec 2007 01:13 GMT
N8N <njnagel@hotmail.com> wrote in news:24886aa6-8221-45a5-8013-
7c81eafb0b58@q3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:

>> OK, I can accept that there might be 40 foot long freshwater giant
>> squid living in lakes. Might be.
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> automobiles, they might actually have an automotive expert as a
> consultant to fact-check...

What about that old Dukes of Hazzard episode where the guest star was Cale
Yarborough? At one point Bo says "throw on the turbocharger, Cale!", and
Cale says "OK" and ducks under the dash to do something.

Uh, yeah...

Signature

Tegger

mike_0_007@hotmail.com - 12 Dec 2007 13:11 GMT
> > OK, I can accept that there might be 40 foot long freshwater giant
> > squid living in lakes. Might be.
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> (in ur livinroom, screamin at ur TV)

ok nate, i'll bite... what's wrong with her testimony?
N8N - 12 Dec 2007 14:05 GMT
On Dec 12, 8:11 am, "mike_0_...@hotmail.com" <mike_0_...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

> > > OK, I can accept that there might be 40 foot long freshwater giant
> > > squid living in lakes. Might be.
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

from:

http://www.moviemistakes.com/film868

Factual error: They make it a fairly large point about the tire size
on the car, Michelin XGV size 75R14. This is actually not a real tire
size, it's an incomplete one. The real tire size would read something
like 205 75r15. Meaning the tire is 205 mm wide, 75 means it's 75%
tall as it is wide (153.75mm), the final number is the width of the
rim in inches. You'd need to know all three numbers to make any sort
of forensic judgement, any one of them missing would leave some major
measurements of the skid marks out. Surely the head of automotive
forensics for the FBI, would be aware of this.

this was the one that really stood out to me... I don't know if the
whole discussion about limited slip being available on some models but
not others was valid or not.

nate
Steve - 12 Dec 2007 15:15 GMT
> On Dec 12, 8:11 am, "mike_0_...@hotmail.com" <mike_0_...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
>
> nate

And if the movie had actually been set in the 60s, it would have been an
"F7815" tire anyway. P-metric sizes didn't start showing up until the
70s. :-)
N8N - 21 Dec 2007 19:43 GMT
> > On Dec 12, 8:11 am, "mike_0_...@hotmail.com" <mike_0_...@hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 46 lines]
> "F7815" tire anyway. P-metric sizes didn't start showing up until the
> 70s. :-)

Let's not even mention that if you DAGS for "Michelin XGV" you mostly
end up with transcripts from the movie...  might have been more
believable if they'd said "Michelin X Radial" or "Michelin XZX" or a
tire that I actually remember seeing on a car...

nate
z - 12 Dec 2007 16:58 GMT
> On Dec 12, 8:11 am, "mike_0_...@hotmail.com" <mike_0_...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 40 lines]
> whole discussion about limited slip being available on some models but
> not others was valid or not.

Well...

"We compared the tire marks outside the convenience store with the
rear tires of the Defendants' car. They are the same model and size
tire, Michelin model XGV, size 75r, 14 inch wheel."
http://www.law.indiana.edu/webinit/tanford/movies/mycousinvinny.htm

Hard to believe that they would try to identify the skid marks without
identifying the width, alright. Also hard to believe they could tell
the aspect ratio (75) from the skid marks. or maybe even the wheel
size.

"Q: Let me ask you this: What's the best selling single model tire
being sold in the United States today?
A: The Michelin XGV."

Really??

Now regarding the limited slip, Wikipedia repeats it without
contesting the statement, which I imagine somebody would
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_Tempest
On the other hand, Wikipedia points out that
1) Tempests had an unusual ***15 inch*** wheel
2) There were only 11 1963 Tempests built.

Anybody want to tackle whether the paint codes were the same for
Tempests and Skylarks?
* - 12 Dec 2007 10:47 GMT
It's fiction!   Science FICTION!

z <gzuckier@snail-mail.net> wrote in article
<50d58a2a-4426-43c0-9918-8e4d2cda0506@s8g2000prg.googlegroups.com>...
> OK, I can accept that there might be 40 foot long freshwater giant
> squid living in lakes. Might be.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> see if he can fix the engine, it's going to turn out to be "just the
> fuel pump"
C. E. White - 12 Dec 2007 15:45 GMT
> OK, I can accept that there might be 40 foot long freshwater giant
> squid living in lakes. Might be.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> see if he can fix the engine, it's going to turn out to be "just the
> fuel pump"

And this worries you compared to Transporters, Phasers, Warp Drive, Worm
Holes, etc.

Most science fiction requires readers/viewers to suspend disbelief at least
in a few areas to move the story along. If you can't handle this sort of
thing then you probably should avoid science fiction and maybe all fiction.
I am not sure I see much difference between science fiction and the sort of
stuff that happens on most popular TV programs (CSI, Bones, Chuck, House,
etc.....).

Ed
z - 12 Dec 2007 16:43 GMT
> > OK, I can accept that there might be 40 foot long freshwater giant
> > squid living in lakes. Might be.
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> Ed

Well, what about nonscience fiction: like the movie Speed, where
there's the bomb on the bus that will blow up if the bus slows down
below 50, so they have the bus jumping over gaps in the freeway ramps,
etc. I'm OK with that, but in the beginning Sandra Bullock misses the
bus and chases after it, and the driver stops to let her on? Come on,
have some realism.
z - 12 Dec 2007 17:06 GMT
> > OK, I can accept that there might be 40 foot long freshwater giant
> > squid living in lakes. Might be.
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> Ed

My favorite quibble is the one people made with "The League of
Extraordinary Gentlemen". We have a vampire, Mr. Hyde, the Invisible
Man, etc. all riding through Venice on Captain Nemo's Nautilus. And
what gets people skeptical? That the canals of Venice would be too
shallow for a boat that size.
Don Bruder - 12 Dec 2007 21:05 GMT
In article
<728319a9-0460-479c-ba86-9a74e99653a2@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,

> > > OK, I can accept that there might be 40 foot long freshwater giant
> > > squid living in lakes. Might be.
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> what gets people skeptical? That the canals of Venice would be too
> shallow for a boat that size.

It's the same thing as when horse-folks (like myself) watch a flick that
has to do with horses, and the glaring screwups leap off the screen
shouting "HEY! LOOK! I'M A MASSIVE SCREWUP!" - A character saying "Wow,
that horse has a nice trot", when the horse is cantering, for instance.
You or some other "John Q. Public" may not know the difference between a
trot and a canter, and you'll swallow it without question *BECAUSE* you
don't know. Those of us who work with horses know exactly what the
difference is, and frequently don't even need to *SEE* the horse to know
that he's cantering rather than trotting (That's how distinct the two
gaits are - You can literally hear the difference and know without
question which gait is in use)

Suspending disbelief is easy when it's a subject that isn't as familiar
as the back of your hand - I can swallow House and his medi-babble
because I'm not in a medical profession - The errors of what he says
aren't "obvious" to me. They may even be completely invisible to me.
*BECAUSE* I'm not medically trained. But I *CAN'T* swallow somebody
riding a competition reining pattern in an australian stock saddle - It
isn't something that's impossible, but it just isn't done. And to
someone like myself, with a literal lifetime of horse experience, it
stands out like a neon sign in a dark room.

Signature

Don Bruder - dakidd@sonic.net - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist,
or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow"
somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my
ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd> for more info

z - 13 Dec 2007 18:04 GMT
> In article
> <728319a9-0460-479c-ba86-9a74e9965...@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
[quoted text clipped - 61 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

The other week some show (I've mercifully blanked the memory out of my
mind) which ought to know better was talking about antibiotic
resistant bacteria, and managed to refer to the bacteria as a "virus"
at one point. Fer crissake, didn't anybody associated with the show
get through high school biology?
Steve - 12 Dec 2007 20:37 GMT
>>But I can't believe that after that, when the skipper goes below to
>>see if he can fix the engine, it's going to turn out to be "just the
>>fuel pump"
>
> And this worries you compared to Transporters, Phasers, Warp Drive, Worm
> Holes, etc.

Actually I understand the gripe COMPLETELY. Boat engines aren't fiction.
They're real, and they behave according to known prinicples. Making one
behave in an outlandish fashion is more of a distraction than something
like warp drive, which is a complete fabrication.

Believable sci-fi always gets the *known* science as good as possible,
and then builds with the imagined parts. Bad sci-fi (or any fiction) has
boat engines that spew smoke, oil, and internal parts... but then can be
resurrected with a new fuel pump.
z - 13 Dec 2007 18:06 GMT
> >>But I can't believe that after that, when the skipper goes below to
> >>see if he can fix the engine, it's going to turn out to be "just the
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> boat engines that spew smoke, oil, and internal parts... but then can be
> resurrected with a new fuel pump.

It's sort of a retroactive thing; if a star cruiser can have the crap
totally blown out of it in some sort of battle or something, then be
completely repaired within a few days with stocks carried on board,
there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to fix a boat engine
that's screeching and smoking from tortured metal with a new fuel pump.
Steve - 13 Dec 2007 19:02 GMT
>>>>But I can't believe that after that, when the skipper goes below to
>>>>see if he can fix the engine, it's going to turn out to be "just the
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to fix a boat engine
> that's screeching and smoking from tortured metal with a new fuel pump.

Uh, no.  The point is that a busted fuel pump won't cause screeching and
tortured metal. And while it is fantasy to imagine a star cruiser, it is
stupidity to imagine a world where a) IC engines are used but b) the
simple mechanical truth that "fuel pumps don't blow up the engine" is
not still valid.
z - 14 Dec 2007 17:46 GMT
> Uh, no.  The point is that a busted fuel pump won't cause screeching and
> tortured metal. And while it is fantasy to imagine a star cruiser, it is
> stupidity to imagine a world where a) IC engines are used but b) the
> simple mechanical truth that "fuel pumps don't blow up the engine" is
> not still valid.-

Ah, but what we don't know is that the fuel pump for the boat engine
is actually powered by a separate little IC engine, which threw a rod.
Scott Dorsey - 15 Dec 2007 14:39 GMT
>> Uh, no.  The point is that a busted fuel pump won't cause screeching and
>> tortured metal. And while it is fantasy to imagine a star cruiser, it is
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>Ah, but what we don't know is that the fuel pump for the boat engine
>is actually powered by a separate little IC engine, which threw a rod.

The way science fiction works is that you start out with the existing rules
of the world that we're in, and you add some technology that remains consistent
with it.

Now, there's a lot of technology that SF readers are generally familiar with.
If you read a story from the thirties about faster than light travel or
instantaneous communication, they'll explain it.  But today, the reader is
expected to understand a lot of that background, so the author can just wave
his hands and say "FTL" or "it's an ansible" and expect the audience to catch
on.  This is part of the problem with people just starting to read SF; they
don't have some of this background and aren't sure how to get it.

But when you DO introduce a new technology, you explain it, and you DO NOT
surprise the reader by changing all the rules on the fly (like suddenly
introducing something that changes all the rules we thought we knew).

This is distinguished from a fantasy story, in which the rules of the world
we live in do not exist, and are replaced with a different set of rules.  
In this case, you can get away with nearly anything as long as it is
consistent and you can suddenly change everything and explain "the magic
helmet did it" and get away with it.  You cannot do that in SF.

The problem with a lot of science fiction television and movies is that
they are written and produced by people who have no clue about the rules
mentioned above.  For a good discussion of how this sort of thing comes
about, read Harlan Ellison's description of the TV show _The Starlost_
in his book The Second Glass Teat.  It's hilarious.
--scott
Signature

"C'est un Nagra.  C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

z - 21 Dec 2007 19:26 GMT
> >> Uh, no.  The point is that a busted fuel pump won't cause screeching and
> >> tortured metal. And while it is fantasy to imagine a star cruiser, it is
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
> --
> "C'est un Nagra.  C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

And in this case, the existing rules, for anyone who saw Jaws, state
that fishing boat engines expire noisily and smokily as soon as a
monster appears; after the monster is dispatched, they are then easily
repaired with the tools available on the boat, allowing you to limp
into port.
z - 24 Dec 2007 18:45 GMT
> >> Uh, no.  The point is that a busted fuel pump won't cause screeching and
> >> tortured metal. And while it is fantasy to imagine a star cruiser, it is
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
> --
> "C'est un Nagra.  C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Oooh, ooh, got another one: from Interceptor Force II, I think it was,
on SciFi channel yesterday: General talking to the President or some
such:
"We hope that the reactor core will be vaporized before it is
dispersed into the atmosphere", in terms of the good guys hoping to
blow up the reactor, in order to prevent the bad guys from.... blowing
up the reactor? Huh? I imagine the head bad guy sitting there and
saying, oddly enough, "We hope that the reactor core will be vaporized
before it is dispersed into the atmosphere".
 
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