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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / December 2007Old school mechanic needs to catch up
Hi All, Please help me with this. My dad, a brilliant diesel mechanic, who is now in his 60s has needed to start his own auto and truck repair shop due to financial pressures. The problem he faces is that the way that cars and trucks are diagnosed and fixed is done through electronic sensors which I believe connect to a PC. He needs to get up to date with this latest technology. The second problem he faces is that he doesn't have the latest spec books. He asked me to look for repair manuals "all makes of vehicles" which I was unable to find online. I have three questions which I hope you may be able to help me with: 1. Which is the best correspondence or online course for him to get up to date with sensor technology 2. Which is the best electronic sensor kit for cars and trucks he should buy 3. Where can one buy the latest repair manuals. Thank you for your help. Gary > Hi All, > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Gary 1) "sensor technology"? I'm assuming you mean like, the way cars work now, with sensors feeding the computer data so it can properly adjust the a/f mixture? A good evening's worth of reading on wikipedia or some other online resource can certainly give him the basics of how it all works. Lincoln Tech is a pretty decent tech school, that many area mechanics come out of, they also seem to have some online stuff. http://www.lincolnedu.com/ 2) Well, if he's opening up a shop, he's probably going to have an account with a tool guy (snap-off, matco, etc), they'll have a code reader. 3) Chilton still makes decent repair manuals as they did 10,20 and probably 30 years ago. Although if you're going for a more high-tech solution, all-data does it all electronically. http://www.alldata.com/ Really, setting up your own shop is a pretty expensive endeavor. If I were your old man, I would do the following: 1) Get a job at a local mechanic, this will do the following: a) Get him back in to the swing, and up to speed on newer tech. b) Get him a working relationship with area vendors (parts, tools, etc) 2) After a while, if he's feeling like he's up to it, open his own shop. Good Luck Jason >> Hi All, >> [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > Good Luck > Jason That's good advice Jason. I will add that Mercedes has made many diesel powered cars. A job with a dealership will likely have some healthcare benefits. >>> Hi All, >>> [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > powered cars. A job with a dealership will likely have some healthcare > benefits. That's true Dealer's will have health benefits. They'll also (in many cases) pay for training. VW also has a quite a few diesel models out there. Additionally, The electronic stuff is only an overlay managing mechanical systems... The basic stuff is still the same, brakes work due to friction, wheels turn and engines need fuel, compression and spark to run. Jason >That's good advice Jason. I will add that Mercedes has made many diesel >powered cars. A job with a dealership will likely have some healthcare >benefits. Mercedes also has a _lot_ of older cars still on the road, and folks who can troubleshoot the old-style mechanical fuel injection systems may well still be in demand at a Mercedes shop. --scott  Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." > >That's good advice Jason. I will add that Mercedes has made many diesel > >powered cars. A job with a dealership will likely have some healthcare [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > -- > "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." Thanks Scott, I think this segment of older car users may be the one my dad should concentrate on > >> Hi All, > [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > powered cars. A job with a dealership will likely have some healthcare > benefits. Thanks Chas, that is definitely a possibility to look at. > 3) Chilton still makes decent repair manuals as they did 10,20 and > probably 30 years ago. Although if you're going for a more high-tech > solution, all-data does it all electronically. Where have you seen the decent ones? All the ones I've seen are worthless unless you're rebuilding your engine. Wrong pictures, wrong procedures, missing information, missing procedures, oversimplification, etc. etc. SignatureDec. 6 (Bloomberg) -- Government officials and activists flying to Bali, Indonesia, for the United Nations meeting on climate change will cause as much pollution as 20,000 cars in a year. >> 3) Chilton still makes decent repair manuals as they did 10,20 and >> probably 30 years ago. Although if you're going for a more high-tech [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > unless you're rebuilding your engine. Wrong pictures, wrong procedures, > missing information, missing procedures, oversimplification, etc. etc. I concur... Chilton and Haynes manuals aren't even quality enough to use for toilet paper these days. >>> 3) Chilton still makes decent repair manuals as they did 10,20 and >>> probably 30 years ago. Although if you're going for a more high-tech [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I concur... Chilton and Haynes manuals aren't even quality enough to use for > toilet paper these days. If that is indeed the case, I take back my recommendation. To be truthful I haven't looked at a new Chilton's manual in a few years....Come to think of it, the last Chilton manual I bought was about 10 years ago, however; it might as well have been a factory workshop manual it was so detailed and accurate... If their quality has suffered between then and now, I'll keep that in mind and stop recommending them. I would never recommend haynes to anyone. Jason >>>> 3) Chilton still makes decent repair manuals as they did 10,20 and >>>> probably 30 years ago. Although if you're going for a more high-tech [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > between then and now, I'll keep that in mind and stop recommending them. > I would never recommend haynes to anyone. I bought my first Chilton's manual when I owned my '72 Torino, which I bought new. I bought my last Chilton's manual when I owned my '72 Torino, which I bought new. It had what appeared to be a wonderful set of full instructions on how to rebuild my engine, but not a single useful fact about any other aspect of the car or servicing it. It had a lot of illustrations of parts that hadn't appeared on Fords in ten years, and a lot of useless procedures at a level of sophistication not unlike "1. Remove engine. 2. Replace crankshaft. 3. Reinstall engine." From spot checks in libraries since, it appears to me they've gone downhill from there. When I first saw a paper Mitchell manual, I thought I was in heaven. SignatureDec. 6 (Bloomberg) -- Government officials and activists flying to Bali, Indonesia, for the United Nations meeting on climate change will cause as much pollution as 20,000 cars in a year. >>>>> 3) Chilton still makes decent repair manuals as they did 10,20 and >>>>> probably 30 years ago. Although if you're going for a more high-tech [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > When I first saw a paper Mitchell manual, I thought I was in heaven. As I was x-mas shopping today, I decided to see for myself. I found a Chilton's manual for an '86 Cherokee. I was surprised to see the current manual for the xj chassis is about 1/5th the size of the one I have collecting dust somewhere (waiting for me to acquire another Cherokee)...very disappointing. Jason Jason Howe <jasonhowe@optonline.net> wrote in article <476dd6de$0$22388$607ed4bc@cv.net>... > >>>>> 3) Chilton still makes decent repair manuals as they did 10,20 and > >>>>> probably 30 years ago. Although if you're going for a more high-tech [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Jason FWIW - There are, actually, TWO different "Chilton Manuals". The one most discussed here is the small, car-specific manual that one buys in bookstores such as Borders and Barnes & Noble. It, like the Haynes manuals, is aimed at the DIY market, and it is about as useless as the Haynes books, too. The "other" Chilton's manual is similar to the "Motor's Manual" - a thick book used by professional mechanics that contains specifications and specialty information on various cars. The "professional" edition assumes a certain level of knowledge, and does not usually contain specific step-by-step information on routine operations such as R&R of components. There is a world of difference between the two types of "Chilton Manuals". > FWIW - There are, actually, TWO different "Chilton Manuals". > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > certain level of knowledge, and does not usually contain specific > step-by-step information on routine operations such as R&R of components. Never ever seen it or heard of a mechanic who knew about it. I can't say I have known a lot of mechanics, but I know a few really good ones. I never found Motor to be a big improvement over Chilton's bookstore manuals. SignatureDec. 6 (Bloomberg) -- Government officials and activists flying to Bali, Indonesia, for the United Nations meeting on climate change will cause as much pollution as 20,000 cars in a year. clifto <clifto@gmail.com> wrote in article > > FWIW - There are, actually, TWO different "Chilton Manuals". > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Never ever seen it or heard of a mechanic who knew about it. I can't say I > have known a lot of mechanics, but I know a few really good ones. Well, I guess the big green books with the yellow lettering on the shelf in my shop are a figment of my imagination...... ....after all, if YOU or your ".....lot of mechanics...." never heard of it, it must not exist.....eh? > clifto <clifto@gmail.com> wrote in article >> > FWIW - There are, actually, TWO different "Chilton Manuals". [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > ....after all, if YOU or your ".....lot of mechanics...." never heard of > it, it must not exist.....eh? I didn't say that. I would say that they're rare (at least comparatively speaking) and not widely desired, and considering this is the first time I've ever heard of them, not well publicized. SignatureDec. 6 (Bloomberg) -- Government officials and activists flying to Bali, Indonesia, for the United Nations meeting on climate change will cause as much pollution as 20,000 cars in a year. > I didn't say that. I would say that they're rare (at least comparatively > speaking) and not widely desired, and considering this is the first time > I've ever heard of them, not well publicized. Are you a professional mechanic? >> I didn't say that. I would say that they're rare (at least comparatively >> speaking) and not widely desired, and considering this is the first time >> I've ever heard of them, not well publicized. > > Are you a professional mechanic? As I said, I'm not, but I know a couple dozen. Whenever manuals come up, the only paper one named in a nice context is Mitchell. If I want to provoke or add humor, I mention Chilton's or Motor. SignatureDec. 6 (Bloomberg) -- Government officials and activists flying to Bali, Indonesia, for the United Nations meeting on climate change will cause as much pollution as 20,000 cars in a year. > >> I didn't say that. I would say that they're rare (at least comparatively > >> speaking) and not widely desired, and considering this is the first time [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > the only paper one named in a nice context is Mitchell. If I want to > provoke or add humor, I mention Chilton's or Motor. Paper Mitchell manuals provoke humor. >> >> I didn't say that. I would say that they're rare (at least comparatively >> >> speaking) and not widely desired, and considering this is the first time [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Paper Mitchell manuals provoke humor. Hey, whatever greases your creases. I find them accurate, complete and easy to work from. I can get them at the library, where the only Chilton's are the completely worthless ones. SignatureDec. 6 (Bloomberg) -- Government officials and activists flying to Bali, Indonesia, for the United Nations meeting on climate change will cause as much pollution as 20,000 cars in a year. > > Paper Mitchell manuals provoke humor. > > Hey, whatever greases your creases. I find them accurate, complete and > easy to work from. I can get them at the library, where the only Chilton's > are the completely worthless ones. I don't have a problem with Mitchell manuals such as they are, but bound paper manuals take up an awful lot of room. >> > Paper Mitchell manuals provoke humor. >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I don't have a problem with Mitchell manuals such as they are, > but bound paper manuals take up an awful lot of room. Now, there you'll get nothing but agreement from me. But there, Mitchell doesn't strike my fancy; I get better data from something my library has set up for at-home use called ARRC Auto Repair Reference Center. They supply Mitchell on line, but you have to go to the library to use it, and the data just aren't as good as either ARRC or Mitchell's own paper books. SignatureDec. 6 (Bloomberg) -- Government officials and activists flying to Bali, Indonesia, for the United Nations meeting on climate change will cause as much pollution as 20,000 cars in a year. > > Hi All, > [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > Good Luck > Jason Thank you very much for your advice Jason, I'll pass it on.
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