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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / February 2008Gasoline, not all the same
After talking with several drivers of gasoline delivery trucks I found some interesting opinions: 1. They all agree that each brand is unique as to additives and number of times its filtered before going into your tank. 2. Each had a preference of what brand of fuel they use in their car, and they will not use any other brand. 3. They said that BP Amoco has more than the stated octane in each grade. That BP has the highest rated premium 93 octane. 4. Conoco fuel is the darkest in color. BP Amoco premium is clear. 5. Each brand has its own additives. The top brands are automatically blended by a computer. For bargain brands, the driver pours additives in by hand. If the driver forgets, or doesn't care, the additives are not in the fuel. If the weather is rainy or snowing/ice they are less inclined to even go out to put the additives in. 6. All of them said there are differences in gasoline, and that it is not true to say all fuels are the same. 7. That places like Costco buys whatever is cheapest. Each delivery can be from a different supplier or blend . There is no consistency. 8. There are some individual stations that tell the drivers to put regular 87 octane in both the regular and mid grade tanks. All the gasoline comes through the same pipeline to a distribution center. But how it is blended and filtered after that is the difference. A few cars with (lawn mower) engineering can burn any lawn mower quality fuel, but most cars do better with better fuel. The main point: All gasolines are not the same. I realize this is just a limited number of drivers, in one area making these comments, but it gives you something to think about. > 8. There are some individual stations that tell the drivers to put > regular 87 octane in both the regular and mid grade tanks. In states that don't do random testing and enforcement with stiff fines (e.g. when I live in Maryland) it is common to get 87 octane gas from the 93 octane tank. After driving between Maryland and Florida many times I have found that you get 93 octane gas in Maryland, Virginia, and Georgia; but not in North Carolina, South Carolina, and Florida. I now live in Florida and buy gas from a station that always has higher octane in there 93 octane tank, but at most gas stations you get only low octane gas.  SignatureMike Walsh >> 8. There are some individual stations that tell the drivers to put >> regular 87 octane in both the regular and mid grade tanks. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > higher octane in there 93 octane tank, but at most gas stations > you get only low octane gas. North Carolina tests gasoline to verify it is of the proper octane. Of course they don't test every station every day (and neither does Florida), but there is a testing program. I've never had any trouble with getting lower octane gas than I expected, but then I've never bought gas at stations I didn't consider reputable. My Mustang would spark knock when pushed hard on regular (no knock sensor), but not on premium. I could definitely tell a difference in spark knock when I paid the extra $0.20 for premium, but it definitely was not worth the difference in cost. My Thunderbird required premium, but since it had a knock sensor, I doubt I could have told the difference between premium and regular. My Frontier "requires" regular, but the manual says for maximum power and fuel economy you can use premium. I tried premium for extended periods, and the fuel economy did improve slightly, but not enough to offset the higher cost of premium. I could detect no difference in performance. North Carolina has several statutes regarding gasoline. Here is the main one: " 119-27. Display of grade rating on pumps, etc.; sales from pumps or devices not labeled; sale of gasoline not meeting standard indicated on label. In the event that the Gasoline and Oil Inspection Board shall adopt standards for grades of gasoline, at all times there shall be firmly attached to or painted on each dispensing pump or other dispensing device used in the retailing of gasoline a label stating that the gasoline contained therein is North Carolina ______ grade. Any person, firm, partnership, or corporation who shall offer or expose for sale gasoline from any dispensing pump or other dispensing device which has not been labeled as required by this section, and/or offer and expose for sale any gasoline which does not meet the required standard for the grade indicated on the label attached to the dispensing pump or other dispensing device, shall be guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor, and the gasoline offered or exposed for sale shall be confiscated. The gasoline and oil inspectors shall have the authority to immediately seize and seal, to prevent further sales, any dispensing pump or other dispensing device from which gasoline is offered or exposed for sale in violation of or without complying with the provisions of this Article. Provided, however, that this section shall not be construed to permit the destruction of any gasoline which may be blended or rerefined or offered for sale as complying with the legal specifications of a lower grade except under order of the court in which an indictment is brought for violation of the provisions of this Article. Provided, further, that gasoline that has been confiscated and sealed by the gasoline and oil inspectors for violation of the provisions of this Article shall not be offered or exposed for sale until the Director of the Gasoline and Oil Inspection Division has been fully satisfied that the gasoline offered or exposed for sale has been blended or rerefined or properly labeled to meet the requirements of this Article and the owners of said gasoline have been notified in writing of this fact by said Director and, provided, further, that the permitting of blending, rerefining or properly labeling of confiscated gasoline shall not be construed to in any manner affect any indictment which may be brought for violation of this section." And the "rule" adopted is: " SECTION .0200 - QUALITY OF LIQUID FUEL PRODUCTS 02 NCAC 42 .0201 STANDARD SPECIFICATIONS (a) The Board hereby adopts by reference, including subsequent amendments and editions, ASTM D-4814, "Standard Specification for Automotive Spark-Ignition Engine Fuel" as standard specification for gasoline with the following modifications: (1) Applications for temporary exceptions to vapor pressure and vapor/liquid ratio specifications as provided in this Subparagraph may be made to the director. Said applications shall contain evidence satisfactory to the director that outlets marketing gasoline in North Carolina cannot feasibly be supplied from bulk terminals furnishing specified volatility level gasoline or that customary sources of supply have been temporarily interrupted by product shortage and alternate sources furnishing specified volatility level gasoline are not available. Such temporary exceptions granted shall apply only until the next meeting of the board at which time the board shall establish the duration of the exception; (2) The minimum lead content for gasoline registered or labeled as "leaded" or "regular" shall be as defined in Rule .0102 of this Chapter; (3) Vapor pressure and vapor/liquid ratio seasonal specifications as listed in this Subparagraph may be extended for a maximum period of 15 days to allow for the disbursement of old stocks. However, new stocks of a higher volatility classification shall not be offered for retail sale prior to the effective date of the higher volatility classification. (b) The Board hereby adopts by reference, including subsequent amendments and editions, ASTM D-4814, "Standard Specification for Automotive Spark-Ignition Engine Fuel" as standard specification for alcohol blends with the following modifications: (1) A vapor pressure tolerance not exceeding one pound per square inch; (2) Vapor pressure and vapor/liquid ratio seasonal specifications as listed in this Subparagraph may be extended for a maximum period of 15 days to allow for the disbursement of old stocks. However, new stocks of a higher volatility classification shall not be offered for retail sale prior to the effective date of the higher volatility classification; (3) Applications for temporary exceptions to vapor pressure and vapor/liquid ratio specifications as provided in this Subparagraph may be made to the director. Said applications shall contain evidence satisfactory to the director that outlets marketing gasoline in North Carolina cannot feasibly be supplied from bulk terminals furnishing specified volatility level gasoline or that customary sources of supply have been temporarily interrupted by product shortage and alternate sources furnishing specified volatility level gasoline are not available. Such temporary exceptions granted shall apply only until the next meeting of the board at which time the board shall establish the duration of the exception; (4) The minimum temperature at 50 percent evaporated shall be 158 degrees F. (70 degrees C.) as determined by ASTM Test Method D-86; (5) The minimum lead content for gasoline/oxygenate blends registered or labeled as "leaded" or "regular" shall be as defined in Rule .0102 of this Chapter; (6) Octane rating shall not be less than the octane index certified on the brand name registration as required by 2 NCAC 42 .0500; (7) All blends, both leaded and unleaded, shall be blended according to the EPA "Substantially Similar" rule or an EPA waiver for unleaded fuel; (8) Water tolerance shall be such that no phase separation occurs when subjected to a temperature equal to the temperatures specified in Table 4, ASTM D-4814. (c) The Board hereby adopts by reference, including subsequent amendments and editions, ASTM D-975, "Standard Specification for Diesel Fuel Oils" as standard specification for diesel motor fuels with the following modification: For diesel motor fuel grade 2-D, the minimum flash point as determined by ASTM Test Method D-56 shall be 115 degrees F. (46 degrees C.). (d) The Board hereby adopts by reference, including subsequent amendments and editions, ASTM D-396, "Standard Specification for Fuel Oils" as standard specification for fuel oils. (e) The Board hereby adopts by reference, including subsequent amendments and editions, ASTM D-3699, "Standard Specification for Kerosene" as standard specification for kerosenes with the following modification: For grade 2-K, the presence or absence of coloring matter shall in no way be determinative of whether a substance meets the requirements of this grade of kerosene. (f) In addition to meeting all specification requirements as set forth in this Rule, each fuel must be suitable for the intended use. (g) ASTM documents adopted by reference herein are available for inspection in the Office of the Director of the Standards Division and may be obtained from ASTM, 1916 Race Street, Philadelphia, PA 19103, at a cost determined by ASTM." Fuel testing NC is conducted by the NCDA&CS Division, Motor Fuels Section (see http://www.ncagr.com/standard/Fuels/ ) Ed 1-if you buy higher octane gasoline than your owners manual suggests then you are wasting your money. 2-it is a good idea to buy gasoline with ethanol added if you live in a location that gets freezing temperatures. otherwise you should add gas line anti-freeze. 3-it may be a good idea to add gasoline stabilizer to your lawn mower's fuel tank if the lawn mower is not going to used for an extended period of time. > After talking with several drivers of gasoline delivery trucks I found > some interesting opinions: > > 1. They all agree that each brand is unique as to additives and number > of times its filtered before going into your tank. Seems to be a reasonable belief. > 2. Each had a preference of what brand of fuel they use in their car, > and they will not use any other brand. Well you don't have to be a delivery driver to have this characteristic. > 3. They said that BP Amoco has more than the stated octane in each > grade. That BP has the highest rated premium 93 octane. This would surprise me. I suspect this belief is more urban lore than fact. I would expect that all manufacturers exceed the octane rating by a small margin in order to make sure they don't violate state laws. However, I would expect that they all (including BP) fluctuate somewhat. > 4. Conoco fuel is the darkest in color. BP Amoco premium is clear. I agree that Amoco premium is clear. As for Conoco being the darkest - I doubt this is generally true. ConocoPhillips gasoline is marketed under a number of brands Conoco, Phillips 66, Circle K, Union 7, etc. > 5. Each brand has its own additives. The top brands are automatically > blended by a computer. For bargain brands, the driver pours additives > in by hand. If the driver forgets, or doesn't care, the additives are > not in the fuel. If the weather is rainy or snowing/ice they are less > inclined to even go out to put the additives in. Hopefully none of the branded gasoline suppliers have such slack employees. > 6. All of them said there are differences in gasoline, and that it is > not true to say all fuels are the same. Well, since the EPA got involved in the business of requiring different gas formulations things are a lot more complicated (see http://www.exxon.com/USA-English/GFM/Files/US_Gasoline_Map.pdf . It is my opinion that regular unleaded gasoline is pretty much a regionally based commodity. This does not mean that all gasoline you buy is the same, but I do think for the most part the actual base gasoline is the same and is only differentiated by the additives (your point 1). The US EPA does require that all unleaded gasoline must include an effective level of fuel injection system cleaner. However not all cleaning systems are the same or as effective. Auto manufacturers have also gotten into the game of specifying gasoline. GM, BMW, and others recommend "top tier" gasoline. Ford recommends BP fuels. Back before the EPA started regulating gasoline, I felt there was a significant advantage to using "branded" fuels. Despite advertising claims, I think it is less important now. My Sister uses whatever gasoline is cheapest in her Honda. It is 11 years old, and the fuel filter has not been changed in the last 100k miles. The car runs fine (although it looks like crap). In my area Costco gas is routinely $0.10 to $0.20 cheaper than the branded stations. For the last few months I have used almost nothing but Costco gasoline. My records show no change in fuel economy, and I can't tell any difference in the performance of my vehicles. > 7. That places like Costco buys whatever is cheapest. Each delivery can > be from a different supplier or blend . There is no consistency. Given the EPA regulations, I think this is largely untrue. Certainly Costco buys gas from a variety of sources, but they all have to meet the EPA requirements in effect for a particular area. > 8. There are some individual stations that tell the drivers to put > regular 87 octane in both the regular and mid grade tanks. Crooks are crooks and mid grade gasoline is largely a rip off...BUT....there is no such thing as a mid grade tank (at least now). Mid grade is created at the pump by combining regular and premium. > All the gasoline comes through the same pipeline to a distribution > center. Just because it all comes down the same pipeline doesn't mean it is all the same gasoline. Products are separated in time so to speak with pigs and slugs of water in between. Still to a large degree, within a certain area, all unleaded regular gas is likely to be the same. There are more likely to be differences in the higher cost premium grades (like Amoco Super). However, unless you really need premium, it is probably a waste of money. > But how it is blended and filtered after that is the > difference. A few cars with (lawn mower) engineering can burn any lawn > mower quality fuel, but most cars do better with better fuel. Your car should run fine as long as you buy the appropriate grade of gasoline recommended by the vehicle manufacturer. For a given grade I doubt that the average consumer can detect any difference in performance related to gasoline that meets EPA requirements. If there is an advantage to a particular manufacturer's gasoline, it is likely to be related to long term usage. One of the goals of the "top tier" gasoline specification is to reduce impurities that can contaminate fuel injectors over a long period of time. > The main point: All gasolines are not the same. Possibly/probably true, but probably irrelevant unless you are consistently buying from crooked stations. > I realize this is just a limited number of drivers, in one area making > these comments, but it gives you something to think about. I wonder how much delivery truck drivers really know about what they are delivering. Ed "C. E. White" <cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote in message > I wonder how much delivery truck drivers really know about what they are > delivering. > > Ed Aha! I think this last sentence speaks volumes. I think this is a good time to bring up the Gasoline FAQ. Don't have the URL handy at the moment, but a google search will bring it up easily enough. I first heard of it through this group. It may have been created by members of the group. It is by far the best overall document on the web concerning gasoline, in my opinion. > > After talking with several drivers of gasoline delivery trucks I found > > some interesting opinions: [quoted text clipped - 103 lines] > > Ed Gasoline is blended differently at the refineries for different parts of America, also for the four different seasons of the year. cuhulin My company sells gasoline and diesel. I work with this stuff every day: > After talking with several drivers of gasoline delivery trucks I found > some interesting opinions: > > 1. They all agree that each brand is unique as to additives and number > of times its filtered before going into your tank. Additives yes, filtering no. > 2. Each had a preference of what brand of fuel they use in their car, > and they will not use any other brand. Lots of people do. > 3. They said that BP Amoco has more than the stated octane in each > grade. That BP has the highest rated premium 93 octane. It depends on the batch. > 4. Conoco fuel is the darkest in color. BP Amoco premium is clear. All gasoline starts out as clear. Colorants are added so that people don't mistake it for water and drink it. > 5. Each brand has its own additives. More or less true. > The top brands are automatically > blended by a computer. Yes. > For bargain brands, the driver pours additives > in by hand. If the driver forgets, or doesn't care, the additives are > not in the fuel. If the weather is rainy or snowing/ice they are less > inclined to even go out to put the additives in. B.S. - Visit a terminal sometime. > 6. All of them said there are differences in gasoline, and that it is > not true to say all fuels are the same. True. Every batch is different. That means that the gasoline changes several times per day in a busy terminal. Terminals get their fuel from the refiners via pipeline on a batch basis. > 7. That places like Costco buys whatever is cheapest. Each delivery can > be from a different supplier or blend . There is no consistency. There is no consistency in gasoline. Read #6 above. Costco gasoline, like most gasoline, comes from one or two local terminals, just like the rest. > 8. There are some individual stations that tell the drivers to put > regular 87 octane in both the regular and mid grade tanks. There are no mid grade tanks. > All the gasoline comes through the same pipeline to a distribution > center. But how it is blended and filtered after that is the > difference. A few cars with (lawn mower) engineering can burn any lawn > mower quality fuel, but most cars do better with better fuel. > > The main point: All gasolines are not the same. True. Read #6 above. > I realize this is just a limited number of drivers, in one area making > these comments, but it gives you something to think about. |
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