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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / April 200889 Escort 1.9L stalls - won't restart right away
A friend's 1989 Escort 1.9L TBI has been stalling lately. It has stalled twice while being driven, once by her and once by her daughter. I haven't yet been able to determine if the car was moving or at a stop when it stalled. It has stalled two or three times at idle, once while I was there checking it out. I immediately tested the coil wire for spark and there was bright blue strong spark. I think it might be the idle air control valve, but wanted to run this by some experienced minds. There is one odd quirk. When I remove a manifold vacuum plug, the idle speed picks up significantly. This is telling me that the system is starved for air. Having said that, I must confess that I have no experience in dealing with fuel injection. I know that this would be bizarre behavior for a carbureted system. Another thing that doesn't compute is that the plugs are not fouled with dry black sooty deposits that would intake a super rich mix. I have done some googling and a clogged idle air control valve and a leaking PCV hose seem to be likely culprits to explain the stalling. I am leaving in a minute to check out both. Will report on the results  Signature"Forget it, Jake. It's the Internet." > A friend's 1989 Escort 1.9L TBI has been stalling lately. It has stalled > twice while being driven, once by her and once by her daughter. I [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > experience in dealing with fuel injection. I know that this would be > bizarre behavior for a carbureted system. Not so odd for a computer controlled fuel injection system. With the plug removed the oxygen sensor will detect a lean mixture. The computer will then increase the fuel, resulting in a much higher idle speed. > Another thing that doesn't compute is that the plugs are not fouled with > dry black sooty deposits that would intake a super rich mix. > > I have done some googling and a clogged idle air control valve and a > leaking PCV hose seem to be likely culprits to explain the stalling. I > am leaving in a minute to check out both. Will report on the results Unfortunately even a 1989 Escort is much more complicated than the old carburetor cars. The problem could be a bad sensor or the computer intermittently cutting off fuel or spark. Does the check engine light come on? If I does you need to get the fault codes. SignatureMike Walsh >> A friend's 1989 Escort 1.9L TBI has been stalling lately. It has stalled >> twice while being driven, once by her and once by her daughter. I [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > problem could be a bad sensor or the computer intermittently cutting off fuel or spark. Does > the check engine light come on? If I does you need to get the fault codes. I just got back from looking the car over again and getting my hands on the Chilton manual for it. It turns out that this model does not have an idle air control valve. Today the car is pouring black smoke from the tailpipe and the gas flow from the injector seems overly abundant at idle. When I partially block the gas flow from the injector, the idle smooths out and the black smoke disappears. The plugs all show classic sign of too rich of a mixture. So now I have to figure out what is causing the rich mixture. Apparently, last night, when my friend attempted to start the car, the engine would crank but not catch and she said the check engine light came on. This could have been the normal lighting up of the check engine light when the key is turned to the run position. When I went there this morning, the engine started and the check engine light was not on while the engine was running. So now the most immediate problem is an absurdly rich fuel mix at idle. Signature"Forget it, Jake. It's the Internet." >I just got back from looking the car over again and getting my hands on >the Chilton manual for it. It turns out that this model does not have an [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >sign of too rich of a mixture. So now I have to figure out what is >causing the rich mixture. Replace the vacuum line going to the MAP sensor if it isn't fairly new. Could also be a map sensor itself failing. Steve B. >> I just got back from looking the car over again and getting my hands on >> the Chilton manual for it. It turns out that this model does not have an [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Steve B. Thanks, Steve, for the heads up on the map sensor. Earlier I found this, so I was on the look out for it: http://groups.google.com/group/alt.autos.ford/browse_thread/thread/e596cbbb579f6 00c/948980471dcd7404?lnk=st&q=escort+OR+lynx+%22black+smoke%22+87+OR+88+OR+89+OR +90#948980471dcd7404 Earlier, I had accidentally disconnected the vacuum line going to the map sensor while removing the 'air filter housing and plastic intake air duct'(one word) to get at the throttle body and to see what was going on in that area. I saw it hanging loose when replacing the 'air filter housing and plastic intake air duct' and reconnected it. I ran the engine while it was disconnected and the 'plastic air filter housing and intake air duct' was removed so that I could see what was happening. I'm new to EFI and the throttle body EFI on this Escort let's you see the injector in action. I plugged up the vacuum line going to the heated intake air sensor thingy under the 'air filter housing and plastic intake air duct' and I plugged up the vacuum line going to the PCV valve (I'm assuming that's what it was). Anyway, long story short, no more black smoke, but I just got back from picking up my friend because the escort stalled again so I am back to square one, the original problem of the engine stalling. I got it started again and it ran long enough to get to an untimed parking spot> She was on her way to National Car Rental, hahaha. She's a smart girl. Signature"Forget it, Jake. It's the Internet." >> I just got back from looking the car over again and getting my hands on >> the Chilton manual for it. It turns out that this model does not have an [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Steve B. Steve, I checked the vacuum line to the map sensor. It checked out okay Signature"Forget it, Jake. It's the Internet." >A friend's 1989 Escort 1.9L TBI has been stalling lately. It has stalled >twice while being driven, once by her and once by her daughter. I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >and there was bright blue strong spark. I think it might be the idle air >control valve, but wanted to run this by some experienced minds. stalls at idle, restarts but doesn't idle... is likely the idle air control valve. If the engine keeps running so long as the throttle is held open a bit by depressing the gas pedal then I'd say the IAC needs at least a cleaning if not a replacement. However, your subject states it doesn't restart right away. That sounds like the ignition control module. It gets hot and doesn't work, then it cools and works. That said, the coil seems to be firing so... it's really going to be when it stalls and how it behaves when restart is attempted. If by not starting right away it immediately stalls after starting (which could appear as 'not starting), it's back to the IAC. holding the gas pedal down slightly when starting will allow it to start and run. >> A friend's 1989 Escort 1.9L TBI has been stalling lately. It has stalled >> twice while being driven, once by her and once by her daughter. I [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > firing so... it's really going to be when it stalls and how it behaves > when restart is attempted. My 87 Dodge Dakota V6 had a similar problem that was caused by a faulty Hall effect pickup in the distributor. It seems many of these Dakotas had this problem. The engine would just stall while driving and would not restart right away. But, geez Louise, now there is black smoke pouring out of the exhaust. when I partially shut off the flow of gas from the single injector, the idle smooths out and the black smoke disappears. So now this problem has moved to the head of the line. I think the two problems may be related. > If by not starting right away it immediately stalls after starting > (which could appear as 'not starting), it's back to the IAC. holding the > gas pedal down slightly when starting will allow it to start and run. Signature"Forget it, Jake. It's the Internet." >> A friend's 1989 Escort 1.9L TBI has been stalling lately. It has stalled >> twice while being driven, once by her and once by her daughter. I [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > (which could appear as 'not starting), it's back to the IAC. holding the > gas pedal down slightly when starting will allow it to start and run. Brent, Wiping the previous slate clean, I offer the following symptoms: Sometimes the injector will spray gas and sometimes it won't. When the injector will not spray gas, there is fuel and pressure in the fuel pressure regulator. I confirmed this by unscrewing the fuel pressure regulator cover and watching as fuel sprayed out with surprised force and duration. Therefore I have taken it into my head that the problem must lie with either the injector, a sensor, faulty wiring or the computer. I can hear the electric fuel pump doing its thing and the fuel pressure regulator seems to be full of pressurized fuel. Whether the pressure is up to specs, I don't know, but I was mightily impressed with the force with which is sprayed out when I loosened the screws of the fuel pressure regulator cover. Another symptom is that the engine tries to stall immediately after starting. I can keep it alive by constantly pumping the gas pedal. No one position on the gas pedal will keep the engine running, but pumping it will. But that is no way to go through life. At present, the engine seems to start consistently but will not run. I am not sure that this engine has an idle air control valve. If it does, the Chilton manual does not refer to it by that name. Signature"Forget it, Jake. It's the Internet." >Sometimes the injector will spray gas and sometimes it won't. When the >injector will not spray gas, there is fuel and pressure in the fuel >pressure regulator. Is this a throttle body system? >Another symptom is that the engine tries to stall immediately after >starting. I can keep it alive by constantly pumping the gas pedal. No >one position on the gas pedal will keep the engine running, but pumping >it will. But that is no way to go through life. At present, the engine >seems to start consistently but will not run. >I am not sure that this engine has an idle air control valve. If it >does, the Chilton manual does not refer to it by that name. Chilton's are horrible manuals. Rock auto sells an IAC for a 1989 escort pony 1.9L (I did not check the other trim levels). depending on which one is used and the mfg of the part, from $16.85 to $75.79. The cheap one looks like plastic fixed opening type thing. The others are proper electric solinoid valves. Anyway go to rockauto.com and look it up. From the pic you can find it, take it off and clean it with throttle body cleaner to see if there is any improvement. >> Sometimes the injector will spray gas and sometimes it won't. When the >> injector will not spray gas, there is fuel and pressure in the fuel >> pressure regulator. > > Is this a throttle body system? Yes it is. Ford refers to it as CFI or Central Fuel Injection. It has a single injector that sprays gas into the throat of a carburetor body >> Another symptom is that the engine tries to stall immediately after >> starting. I can keep it alive by constantly pumping the gas pedal. No [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > take it off and clean it with throttle body cleaner to see if there is any > improvement. Great, thanks... will do. Signature"Forget it, Jake. It's the Internet." > A friend's 1989 Escort 1.9L TBI has been stalling lately. It has stalled > twice while being driven, once by her and once by her daughter. I > haven't yet been able to determine if the car was moving or at a stop > when it stalled. Wasn't this one of the models that made the state of California sue FoMoCo for faulty ignition modules that caused them to stall? >> A friend's 1989 Escort 1.9L TBI has been stalling lately. It has stalled >> twice while being driven, once by her and once by her daughter. I [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > FoMoCo for > faulty ignition modules that caused them to stall? Do tell! Well, this particular one, if original, has lasted quite a while. I'll to a google on that. Signature"Forget it, Jake. It's the Internet." >> A friend's 1989 Escort 1.9L TBI has been stalling lately. It has stalled >> twice while being driven, once by her and once by her daughter. I [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > FoMoCo for > faulty ignition modules that caused them to stall? Kruse, thanks for this info. This 87 Escort LX is indeed one of those cars that received the faulty ignition module. The date has passed to file a claim, but the part costs less than $40 and is available at a local Kragens. I'll give it a go! Signature"Forget it, Jake. It's the Internet." |
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