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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / May 2008HELP: 93 Toyota Corolla vibration problem!
Hi, I have a 1993 Toyota Corolla with 265k miles on it. There is a vibration that has the following symptoms: - it only occurs on the highway - it starts gradually and increases in severity, then eventually fades away and disappears within 10 miles. - it happens only occasionally, seemingly randomly, and when it does happen it happens at all speeds, not just a certain speed - it appears to come from the front of the vehicle. - you can feel it in the steering wheel AND the brake pedal - it does not happen on local roads or at local roads speed - when the vibration starts, you must bring the car to a complete stop to get rid of it. If you only slow down, to local road speeds (30-40mph) and then speed up again, it will still be present. The car must come to a complete stop in order to proceed without a vibration - it happens in the cold and warmish weather (here in boston is in the 40s and 50s now. it happens in 30s, 40s or 50s) - i put in brand new front rotors and this did not cure it. Please help. Email me with any advice that you can. Thanks! -Jon > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > -Jon Have you checked for worn joints, parts, etc in the front suspension?..Include CV or halfshaft joints in that. I would do this first and thoroughly as this is one of the symptoms of worn front end parts, you need to eliminate things systematically and not throw parts at it, and last because it can kill you if you break a key front suspension part. >> Hi, >> [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > if > you break a key front suspension part. Ya, dot too.... Also, tires (a broken belt or a missing wheel weight), bearings, calipers, etc. Anything attached to the suspension that is worn can cause a vibration, esp at this mileage. Take it to a good tire/suspension shop and have it checked! I have a 1993 Corolla (1.8 liter LE 4-door auto 251,000 mi.) In the last 3 years I have replaced the: -lower ball joints -shock struts and -front wheel bearings. For your safety, inspect everything. On this group there are experts who may be able to diagnose the condition now causing vibration based on the described symptoms. Good luck! - Jack Are the axles the originals? I bet they are real loose. ZZYZX RD., is an exit from I-15 about 40 miles south of Las Vegas ... Just thought I'd share ... > ZZYZX RD., is an exit from I-15 about 40 miles south of Las Vegas ... > > Just thought I'd share ... http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=ZZYZX+RD&sll=37.0625,-95.677068 &sspn=23.84182,58.710937&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=13&iwloc=addr Can I use that in Scrabble? Ok, Here is what I've been told. My mechanic says that it is the new tires I bought a little less than 5000 miles ago. He says that the tires are stretching when they warm up and there is a defect in the tire. The tire place claims that the wheels have hops in them. They showed me a slight wobble in my wheels. They are 14" steel, so i doubt this is the issue. also, the wobble was so slight that it could not possibly cause this violent of a vibration. Thridly, the vibration is not constant, but intermittent. So, does the tire defect seem logical to everyone? They are Yokohama Avid TRZ 185-65R14. Thanks for all your help thus far! You guys are great. -jon > Ok, > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > -jon A bad tire or tires is plausible, as are a damaged wheel. A wobble, dent, or deformation in the wheel that is visible will almost definitely cause a vibration, although the vibration is more likely to be consistent and not intermittent. Another possibility is that there is rust on the wheel to hub mating surface and the wheel is not as securely mounted as it appears to be. The fix is to remove the wheel, clean up the hub and wheel where they contact, apply a very light coating of anti-seize, and re-install the wheels. Have the shop or your mechanic measure wheel and tire lateral and radial runout to determine which of these is the cause of the vibration.  SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message > Another possibility is that there is rust on the wheel to hub mating > surface and the wheel is not as securely mounted as it appears to be. The [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Have the shop or your mechanic measure wheel and tire lateral and radial > runout to determine which of these is the cause of the vibration. While everything you say is true, it bothers me a little bit that he can stop the oscillation by stopping the car and restarting. OP....Have you rotated your tires recently and, if so, did this make any difference?? > "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message >> Another possibility is that there is rust on the wheel to hub mating [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > OP....Have you rotated your tires recently and, if so, did this make any > difference?? If the wheel is not properly mounted to the vehicle and the wheel is shifting a little, applying the brakes can seat the wheel, and after driving for a distance, the wheel shifts to where is causes a vibration again. Measuring the lateral and radial runout of the wheel and tire separately will determine whether the wheel or tire is the cause of the problem. Cleaning up the wheel - vehicle mating surfaces will eliminate an improperly mounted wheel as a possible cause. Besides the wheel, tire, and wheel mounting, there are other possible causes of vehicle vibrations, like a defective tire that has an internal problem like a broken belt, CV joints, ball joints, rack ends, out-of-alignment, suspension problem, wheel bearings, and a transmission problem. Taking a systematic approach eliminates the most likely causes of the problem and narrows down the possible sources of the vibration. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) > Besides the wheel, tire, and wheel mounting, there are other possible causes > of vehicle vibrations, like a defective tire that has an internal problem > like a broken belt, CV joints, ball joints, rack ends, out-of-alignment, > suspension problem, wheel bearings, and a transmission problem. My mechanic, although not infallable, has gone through all of hte front suspension components 2 times on 2 separate days and swears that it is not a suspension component issue. Although I can appreciate that it front suspension issues often cause vibration... so its good that you wrote this... :-) > Taking a systematic approach eliminates the most likely causes of the > problem and narrows down the possible sources of the vibration. Agreed. Definitely. >> Besides the wheel, tire, and wheel mounting, there are other possible >> causes [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Agreed. Definitely. If the suspension and steering components are in good condition, then the next things to re-check are Wheel and tire balance, preferably on a machine that simulates road force Inspection of the tires for internal damage or defects Wheel/hub interface Wheel lateral and radial runout as measured by a dial indicator Tire lateral and radial runout as measured by a dial indicator SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) > OP....Have you rotated your tires recently and, if so, did this make any > difference?? Hi, I did rotate them less than 5k miles ago when I had the new ones installed. Basically i had the fronts moved to the rear, and the new tires installed in the front. On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 05:58:35 -0700, jonb55198 wrote: > The tire > place claims that the wheels have hops in them. Now all you need is some barley and make a malt! (Sorry, couldn't resist. What the hell is a 'hop'?) > On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 05:58:35 -0700, jonb55198 wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Now all you need is some barley and make a malt! (Sorry, couldn't resist. > What the hell is a 'hop'?) It's what they combine barley and yeast with ... DUH! > What the hell is a 'hop'?) A hop is their laymans term for a wheel that isn't true. A bent wheel. I always thought wheel hop was when one applied too much torque while accellerating, and the tires broke free and started to "hop" up and down. Clearly something my corolla doesn't have the balls to do haha. NEW SYMPTOMS: I had the tires changed out for brand new Yokoham Avid TRZ. they were under warranty so it didn't cost me anything. However, the vibration still persisted. The new additional symptoms are as follows: 1. when the vibration occurs, you can get out of the car and feel the temperature of the steel wheels. The Passenger Front wheel is hot to the touch and will burn you. the rest are cool to the touch. 2. the brake pedal has less travel and feels stiffer. 3. more gas pedal effort and reduced gas mileage during periods of vibration. 4. this problem will start randomly and is not dependent on if you are using the brakes. I was on the highway at 1AM and didn't use the brakes for 30 miles and it still started. Now here is what I think, although i'm not a mechanic... I think it has something to do with the front passenger-side caliper. It may be locking up somehow. But i noticed on local roads before the vibration starts, if the pedal is stiff, pump it a few times and it goes away... ie the brakes unlock. The weird thing is I put brand new calipers in there 3k miles ago.... could one be defective? Any help or insight would be appreciated. Thanks. -Jon > NEW SYMPTOMS: > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > -Jon The hose to the caliper may have internally collapsed causing the jam. To test it you need to jack up the wheel and feel the drag that is causing the heat, then loosen off the bleeder screw. If the wheel releases, you have found the likely trouble. A bad wheel bearing can also affect the brake caliper. It can cause the rotor to drag against one side of the caliper which can overheat it also. One other symptom of this can be a different feel in the brake pedal's first pump after a hard turn to one side or the other. If the second pump seems higher or lower with the third pump getting back to normal, it can indicate a bad bearing. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 'New' frame in the works for '08. Some Canadian Bush Trip and Build Photos: http://mikeromainjeeptrips.shutterfly.com SOME DARN GOOD ADVICE Thanks mike!! I will try that stuff today before I bring it into the mechanic to try and diagnose if it is the wheel bearing or the hose. He did mention that it is probably the hose. But I will tell him about the wheel bearing test that you suggested. Great Advice! Thanks. >NEW SYMPTOMS: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >temperature of the steel wheels. The Passenger Front wheel is hot to >the touch and will burn you. the rest are cool to the touch. Sounds like a brake problem. >2. the brake pedal has less travel and feels stiffer. Sounds like a brake problem. >3. more gas pedal effort and reduced gas mileage during periods of >vibration. >4. this problem will start randomly and is not dependent on if you are >using the brakes. I was on the highway at 1AM and didn't use the >brakes for 30 miles and it still started. Does lightly tapping on the brakes stop it? >Now here is what I think, although i'm not a mechanic... I think it >has something to do with the front passenger-side caliper. It may be >locking up somehow. But i noticed on local roads before the vibration >starts, if the pedal is stiff, pump it a few times and it goes away... >ie the brakes unlock. The weird thing is I put brand new calipers in >there 3k miles ago.... could one be defective? That sure sounds like it. --scott Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." >>NEW SYMPTOMS: >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Sounds like a brake problem. Sounds more like a BENT wheel. > NEW SYMPTOMS: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > 2. the brake pedal has less travel and feels stiffer. Here is what you should do. Have all 4 wheels dynamically balanced off the car. Be sure to watch closely for any wheel that seems to wobble on the machine. IF it runs true - then have a dynamic balance done ON the car. See if the wobble appears. If it runs true on the dynamic balance off the car but there is a wobble ON the car then you may have some bad wheel bearings. Start with that right front. Look at the rotor for discoloration. > NEW SYMPTOMS: > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > -Jon Replace both front brake hoses, replace the brake fluid, and bleed the brakes. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) >> I had the tires changed out for brand new Yokoham Avid TRZ. they were >> under warranty so it didn't cost me anything. However, the vibration [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > Replace both front brake hoses, replace the brake fluid, and bleed the > brakes. That may not get the problem. Most tire places use a "static balance." system. Okay for some purposes on newer cars, but this car is 15 years old. Wheels on the 93 Toyota were not exactly the strongest. The wheel needs a dynamic balance and CLOSE inspection to see how true it is running. On the older cars potholes can tend to cause the wheels to become bent. I'd start there. Also the Corolla of the 90's was famous for bad wheel bearings. We could assume it has disc brakes on the front wheels. A close inspection of the spindle and the rotor are next. Not knowing how many miles are on the car (generally we can assume over 100,000) at this age as a minimum - you have all sorts of culprits along the way as possibles. Maybe even combinations. That's without getting to any suspension parts. Look at the most likely first. 1. Bent wheel. 2. Bad wheel balance. 3. Bad bearing. 4. Bad rotor or worn spindle. 5. Suspension parts. (there are several high failure parts on the corolla) The brake son the Corolla CAN be bad, but have been one of the more reliable things about Toyota. The only question here is how many times the rotors were turned and how accurately. MANY brake shops are butchers. The cut rate places often have poorly trained KIDS doing the job. Nobody should be surprised when they screw up. If too much is taken off a rotor when it is turned, they get sort of square after a while. As the too THINK rotor heats up it tends to go our of round. Look at the most likely first. Brake lines are down the list pretty far. Since it is only ONE side that seems to be causing the vibration I would look for the most likely things first. You MAY wind up with a bad brake hose, but I'd look elsewhere first. Besides you can't really tell about the hose even when you remove it. Not unless it is obviously collapsed. Hardening of the brake hose arteries is not impossible, just unlikely. You can start to see the problem when you spin up the wheel on the car. Most tire stores will CHECK the wheel balance OFF the car for free. Especially the store where you bought the tires. > >> I had the tires changed out for brand new Yokoham Avid TRZ. they were > >> under warranty so it didn't cost me anything. However, the vibration [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] > Most tire stores will CHECK the wheel balance OFF the car for free. > Especially the store where you bought the tires.- Hide quoted text - I'd say it's VERY likely a hose or caliper based on the symptoms posted. Sounds like dragging pads which have caused the rotor to warp. So probably he will end up with a new hose, caliper, and rotor before the problem is solved. I say caliper because even if the hose is the cause of the problem the seals in the caliper may have been toasted by the heat and I would replace all three just to be certain that I've got the problem and won't end up with another one shortly. nate > > "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 81 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I agree, I had this happen, if the brakes drag, after driving on the highway, the rotor will overheat and warp and cause a vibration due to the brakes dragging on a warped rotor.. fix the dragging brake and you'll also get better gas milage. Mark > I'd say it's VERY likely a hose or caliper based on the symptoms > posted. Sounds like dragging pads which have caused the rotor to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > - Show quoted text - < I agree, I had this happen, if the brakes drag, after driving on the < highway, the rotor will overheat and warp and cause a vibration due to < the brakes dragging on a warped rotor.. And so the rotor will be a pretty MIDNIGHT BLUE. Do you think the guys in the tire store would likely miss that? > > I'd say it's VERY likely a hose or caliper based on the symptoms > > posted. Sounds like dragging pads which have caused the rotor to [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > And so the rotor will be a pretty MIDNIGHT BLUE. Do you think the guys in > the tire store would likely miss that? I think they did. How else to you explain the one wheel being hot to the touch but not the others? My money is still on a brake issue. nate >> > I'd say it's VERY likely a hose or caliper based on the symptoms >> > posted. Sounds like dragging pads which have caused the rotor to [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >> in >> the tire store would likely miss that? > I think they did. How else to you explain the one wheel being hot to > the touch but not the others? My money is still on a brake issue. If THEY missed it how about you? Is it blue or not? Let's take the brakes. You'll need to mic the rotor see if it is within tolerance (thickness) that break open the caliper and look at the pads. I never said you were "wrong" on this - just that I'd look other places first. Like the CV joint. If there is a problem you'll see it when you remove the caliper and look at the pads. It IS possible that it needs a cleaning of the pistons and gaskets. (O -rings) I have seen a great many brake jobs really done half-assed. Or on the cheap. BAD IDEA. I don't know if you have owned this car for a long time or not. One CORNERS CUT brake job is all it takes. Then you are looking at the potential to replace both front rotors and calipers plus pads. The good thing is that good parts should be easy to find in a bone yard. Good rotors and calipers. Thing is they are common as dirt. It may be brakes. I'd not bet on the hose, but it is a cheap fix if it is. > And so the rotor will be a pretty MIDNIGHT BLUE. Do you think the guys in > the tire store would likely miss that? Well, the rotor was bluing, which is why i replaced them about 1000 miles ago. But, I think that is the symptom and not the disease. What can be causing the dragging? could a bad booster cause it? On Apr 21, 10:29 am, jonb55...@yahoo.com wrote: > > And so the rotor will be a pretty MIDNIGHT BLUE. Do you think the guys in > > the tire store would likely miss that? > > Well, the rotor was bluing, which is why i replaced them about 1000 > miles ago. But, I think that is the symptom and not the disease. > What can be causing the dragging? could a bad booster cause it? If it's only one wheel, I'd strongly suspect the hose. Second choice would be frozen up mounting hardware causing a single piston caliper not to float freely. A booster, master cylinder, or pushrod adjustment issue would show up on at least two if not all four wheels. nate On Apr 21, 10:29 am, jonb55...@yahoo.com wrote: > On Apr 19, 7:52 am, " krp" <krp24...@verizon.net> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > miles ago. But, I think that is the symptom and not the disease. > What can be causing the dragging? could a bad booster cause it? If it's only one wheel, I'd strongly suspect the hose. Second choice would be frozen up mounting hardware causing a single piston caliper not to float freely. A booster, master cylinder, or pushrod adjustment issue would show up on at least two if not all four wheels. nate <JS> I agree with N8. Since the claim is that only one corner is affected, I'd go with a failure that is local to only that corner, not a failure that leads to all four corners. Having said that, the rear brakes are drum type, and if they were maladjusted (too loose), then they could be held partially activated and you would never know. This would tend to suggest the master cylinder. The linked rear brake would be the diagonal corner, by the way. I'd be looking at the local problems though before I looked at systemic problems. </JS> > On Apr 21, 10:29 am, jonb55...@yahoo.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > </JS> Good point, but that would also imply that the self-adjusting hardware was frozen up on at least one rear wheel. Not impossible, but would imply two simultaneous problems. That said, it might not be a bad idea to check anyway, since the OP has apparently tried all the obvious stuff. nate > > > And so the rotor will be a pretty MIDNIGHT BLUE. Do you think the guys > > > in [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > </JS> Good point, but that would also imply that the self-adjusting hardware was frozen up on at least one rear wheel. Not impossible, but would imply two simultaneous problems. That said, it might not be a bad idea to check anyway, since the OP has apparently tried all the obvious stuff. ====== Did you see the part where he said he REPLACED the hoses? > > > > And so the rotor will be a pretty MIDNIGHT BLUE. Do you think the guys > > > > in [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > Did you see the part where he said he REPLACED the hoses? Plonk, Stop being a douche. > > > > And so the rotor will be a pretty MIDNIGHT BLUE. Do you think the > > > > guys [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > Did you see the part where he said he REPLACED the hoses? < Plonk, Stop being a douche. Back at ya! > On Apr 21, 10:29 am, jonb55...@yahoo.com wrote: >> On Apr 19, 7:52 am, " krp" <krp24...@verizon.net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > If it's only one wheel, I'd strongly suspect the hose. Whcih was already replaced and had no affect on the problem. Second choice > would be frozen up mounting hardware causing a single piston caliper > not to float freely. Or two problems combined. It is possible that the left front caliper is seized up AND the master cylinder pushrod misadjusted. This would put all the pressure on the right front caliper. A booster, master cylinder, or pushrod > adjustment issue would show up on at least two if not all four wheels. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > with a failure that is local to only that corner, not a failure that leads > to all four corners. Both fronts should apply together so it is possible that one front brake IS NOT applying. > Having said that, the rear brakes are drum type, and if they were > maladjusted (too loose), then they could be held partially activated and you > would never know. This would tend to suggest the master cylinder. The linked > rear brake would be the diagonal corner, by the way. I don't believe Toyota uses a diagonal braking system. > I'd be looking at the local problems though before I looked at systemic > problems. > > </JS> >> <JS> >> I agree with N8. Since the claim is that only one corner is affected, I'd [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Both fronts should apply together so it is possible that one front brake > IS NOT applying. That would create a pull to the side that is applying when the brakes were applied. If the brakes were being applied unevenly, then a pull would occur. If the brakes were applied evenly but released unevenly, then the result would be rapid wear and high heat on the side that was dragging. >> Having said that, the rear brakes are drum type, and if they were >> maladjusted (too loose), then they could be held partially activated and >> you would never know. This would tend to suggest the master cylinder. The >> linked rear brake would be the diagonal corner, by the way. > > I don't believe Toyota uses a diagonal braking system. I don't know that they do or not. I suspect they do. Diagonal braking is a safety thing. The question is not if Toyota uses it, but rather if anybody uses it. Either way, I'd be looking at local issues relative to the one corner before I'd be looking to systemic issues. > On Apr 21, 10:29 am, jonb55...@yahoo.com wrote: >> On Apr 19, 7:52 am, " krp" <krp24...@verizon.net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > go with a failure that is local to only that corner, not a failure that > leads to all four corners. Did you note he checked that? On Apr 21, 10:29 am, jonb55...@yahoo.com wrote: > On Apr 19, 7:52 am, " krp" <krp24...@verizon.net> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > miles ago. But, I think that is the symptom and not the disease. > What can be causing the dragging? could a bad booster cause it? If it's only one wheel, I'd strongly suspect the hose. Second choice would be frozen up mounting hardware causing a single piston caliper not to float freely. A booster, master cylinder, or pushrod adjustment issue would show up on at least two if not all four wheels. He checked the hose. That's not it. >> And so the rotor will be a pretty MIDNIGHT BLUE. Do you think the guys in >> the tire store would likely miss that? > > Well, the rotor was bluing, which is why i replaced them about 1000 > miles ago. But, I think that is the symptom and not the disease. > What can be causing the dragging? You stated that it is only one front wheel that is getting hot so it would have to be the caliper, pads, brake hose or steel line going to that particular wheel. could a bad booster cause it? No. A bad booster would affect all wheels. When a booster fails it will generally make the brake pedal hard to depress. >>> And so the rotor will be a pretty MIDNIGHT BLUE. Do you think the guys >>> in [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > No. A bad booster would affect all wheels. When a booster fails it will > generally make the brake pedal hard to depress. The Booster would not give the symptoms. The Master Cylinder _might_ (but very doubtful) give the symptom because the rear brake is a drum, and one would not notice it being bound if it was not adjusted well. And, even if it was adjusted well, the springs pulling the shoes open could overpower the pressure tryuing to close them, while the front disc brakes are held against the rotor causing heat build up and rapid pad wear at the same time. >> And so the rotor will be a pretty MIDNIGHT BLUE. Do you think the guys >> in [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > miles ago. But, I think that is the symptom and not the disease. > What can be causing the dragging? could a bad booster cause it? Did you replace the calipers? Check the pistons for pitting? Sometimes an improperly installed o-ring on the caliper pistons can cause intermittent problems. > You can start to see the problem when you spin up the wheel on the car. > Most tire stores will CHECK the wheel balance OFF the car for free. > Especially the store where you bought the tires.- Hide quoted text - < I'd say it's VERY likely a hose or caliper based on the symptoms < posted. Sounds like dragging pads which have caused the rotor to < warp. So probably he will end up with a new hose, caliper, and rotor < before the problem is solved. I say caliper because even if the hose < is the cause of the problem the seals in the caliper may have been < toasted by the heat and I would replace all three just to be certain < that I've got the problem and won't end up with another one shortly. It can seem the pads are bad when in fact the rotor is not running true. Rotors on the Corolla generally warp because they have been turned at least one time too many. You can't just replace one side. IF it turns out that is the culprit - calipers and rotor - he'll need to do both sides. That gets expensive. You are looking at maybe a $300 - $600 job. Given that the steel wheels on the Toyotas are a bit thin to start with, and tend to go egg shaped just with normal use (pot holes) you might consider that 15 year old wheels may be just a little egg shaped. It may be that simple. Start with the cheap stuff first. Since he just got new tires - a dynamic balance (spin) seems a good place to start, most tire stores will check it for FREE. If the wheel is true, then you can look at the rotor. IF that's it it is going to stick out like a sore thumb. The rotor will be blue as hell. Somebody MAY have put new pads on without turning the rotor. So the pad will also look like dog meat. This stuff is hard to miss. I don't know where the guy got his new tires. It seems to me that it would be unlikely that any tire store would miss bunged up rotors etc. Every mechanic is a salesman. They are paid to notice that stuff and pass it up the food chain to sell a brake job. Now, many tire stores get VERY sloppy on wheel balances, they often miss our of round wheels especially on 15 year old cars. But the problem may be more subtle - something a "tire mounter" would miss. That says to me a failed SUSPENSION part. OR a CV joint. You need a REAL mechanic to see that. In 99% of tire stores the guys who mount new tires are at the bottom of the food chain, often high school kids who are taught only how to bust and mount tires and maybe do a static balance. (Little bubble machine.) These grunts work on volume getting tin (cars) in and out as fast as they can. They usually can't spot problems that don't yell at them like a blue rotor or hanging pad. They look at only the big stuff they can see. The REAL mechanics are busy on high dollar profitable work, brake jobs, front ends and the like given the limits of the shop's scope of work. Maybe en exhaust system job. The hose on the Toyotas are one of the more robust parts on the car. I'd just not start at the least likely. You are right about the brakes, but generally those tend to share the problem from side to side. It's easy to spot for a car owner with 20/20 vision. Look at the rotor. Is it gouged or dark blue. If so, you have an expensive brake problem. If not, look at those wheels and wheel bearings. The Corollas tend to use up bearings if they are not repacked at least once a year. Same for the Nissans. Since the Corolla is FWD, the CV joint may be shot. Those tend to wear unevenly from side to side and the right joint tends to fail first in most FWD cars. Again it is a job that when you replace one side, do BOTH because you'll be back in weeks to do the left side anyway. > some stuff... Well, at one point like the rotors were bluing like 1000 miles ago and I replaced them. The hoses were replaced 3 days ago, this did not fix it either. The calipers are 3k old. Could it be the brake booster since the problem is intermitten and only shows up once in a while? Also, could the vibration be caused by the hot wheel overheating the tire? How warped would a wheel have to be to cause this? There is only vibration when the brakes are dragging. The other day i drove to the airport (60 miles with no traffic at 3AM) and it only did it once for 10 miles. I did not have to use my brakes at all for the entire highway portion of the trip, but it still started to drag and then vibrate half way into the trip. Please notice that i said it drags THEN vibrates. You can feel that you need more gas pedal effort to move the car and then the vibration starts gradually shortly thereafter and builds up in intensity. Does this extra info help you? On Apr 21, 10:45 am, jonb55...@yahoo.com wrote: > > some stuff... > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > move the car and then the vibration starts gradually shortly > thereafter and builds up in intensity. Does this extra info help you? Hmm. disregard my last post then. Did you thoroughly clean the mounting hardware (esp. sliders) when you replaced the calipers? Assuming, of course, that these are single piston type with sliders. Do you have any noticeable play in that wheel bearing? I can't see how that would cause the brakes to drag/rotor to overheat, but it seems like you've covered the likely culprits already. nate >> some stuff... > > Well, at one point like the rotors were bluing like 1000 miles ago and > I replaced them. The hoses were replaced 3 days ago, this did not fix > it either. The calipers are 3k old. Could it be the brake booster > since the problem is intermitten and only shows up once in a while? No > Also, could the vibration be caused by the hot wheel overheating the > tire? No How warped would a wheel have to be to cause this? Extremely warped. There is > only vibration when the brakes are dragging. Then your problem is with the brakes. The other day i drove to > the airport (60 miles with no traffic at 3AM) and it only did it once > for 10 miles. I did not have to use my brakes at all for the entire > highway portion of the trip, but it still started to drag and then > vibrate half way into the trip. Please notice that i said it drags > THEN vibrates. Right, the brakes drag causing the rotor to get hot and warp which causes the vibration. You can feel that you need more gas pedal effort to > move the car and then the vibration starts gradually shortly > thereafter and builds up in intensity. Does this extra info help you? Not really, you have covered this at least a half dozen times already. >> some stuff... > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > move the car and then the vibration starts gradually shortly > thereafter and builds up in intensity. Does this extra info help you? It could be the proportioning valve it could be the master cylinder, and it still can be a CV joint. It is also possible that the new caliper was rebuilt wrong. >>> I had the tires changed out for brand new Yokoham Avid TRZ. they were >>> under warranty so it didn't cost me anything. However, the vibration [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] > Most tire stores will CHECK the wheel balance OFF the car for free. > Especially the store where you bought the tires. I already suggested, and the OP checked, most of the stuff you listed. Most tire shops around here use dynamic balancers, and some even have Hunter's new Road Force dynamic balancer. The problem I've seen on some old brake hoses is not hardening, but a deterioration of the lining. The lining flakes off and blocks the line so when the pedal is released, residual pressure keeps the caliper piston from releasing. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) >> Look at the most likely first. Brake lines are down the list pretty >> far. Since it is only ONE side that seems to be causing the vibration I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> collapsed. Hardening of the brake hose arteries is not impossible, just >> unlikely. >> You can start to see the problem when you spin up the wheel on the >> car. Most tire stores will CHECK the wheel balance OFF the car for free. >> Especially the store where you bought the tires. > I already suggested, and the OP checked, most of the stuff you listed. > Most tire shops around here use dynamic balancers, and some even have > Hunter's new Road Force dynamic balancer. If the wheels were run on a dynamic balance then I'd look at the CV joint. > The problem I've seen on some old brake hoses is not hardening, but a > deterioration of the lining. The lining flakes off and blocks the line so > when the pedal is released, residual pressure keeps the caliper piston > from releasing. Well on the Toyota the brake hoses tend to be on the robust side. Not unusual to last 20 years with no problems. IF the caliper is hanging the rotor will be blued. That should stand out to ANY tire mounter. Since you suggest that the wheels WERE balanced and are NOT out of round in either axis, then not knowing all that was or wasn't checked, I'd suspect a CV joint. THOSE on the Corollas tend to crap out sometime after 10 years. Much better than American cars. Here is what strikes me. He just got 4 new tires. It is hitting only ONE side of the car. (Right front). It was something that a worker hot to MAKE sales would likely not see. Suggest that obvious BRAKE things hanging pads and blued rotors weren't present. So it is a process of elimination. If I assume even marginal competence of the tire store folks - something they'd NOT necessarily pick up on would be a suspension part or CV joint. > Here is what strikes me. He just got 4 new tires. It is hitting only ONE > side of the car. (Right front). It was something that a worker hot to MAKE > sales would likely not see. Suggest that obvious BRAKE things hanging pads > and blued rotors weren't present. So it is a process of elimination. If I > assume even marginal competence of the tire store folks - something they'd > NOT necessarily pick up on would be a suspension part or CV joint. Good point. But wouldn't the bad CV likely make a clicking sound during turns and cause vibration nearly always on the highway? >> Here is what strikes me. He just got 4 new tires. It is hitting only >> ONE [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Good point. But wouldn't the bad CV likely make a clicking sound > during turns and cause vibration nearly always on the highway? Bad point. A bad CV joint WOULD NOT cause the brakes to lock up. >>> Here is what strikes me. He just got 4 new tires. It is hitting only >>> ONE [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Bad point. A bad CV joint WOULD NOT cause the brakes to lock up. I don't think he's saying the brake are locking up exactly. He can look at TIRE WEAR. He said he could feel some resistance, a flaky CV joint would dissipate horsepower. The point is that CV joints can fail in several ways, not necessarily making loud noises. >> Here is what strikes me. He just got 4 new tires. It is hitting only >> ONE [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Good point. But wouldn't the bad CV likely make a clicking sound > during turns and cause vibration nearly always on the highway? On older American cars yes. The Japanese have had much better CV joints than American makes especially 20 years ago. I'd look awfully hard at the LEFT caliper. Something tells me it isn't working right, or your master cylinder is not well. It seems like we are chasing a phantom. Here is something to consider. You have confined your investigation to the right wheel. I think you need to look at the other side as well. There is a proportioning valve there somewhere. I don't know where it is on the Corolla. It can be bad. Sometimes you need to bleed the brakes several times. It can be contaminants, pesky air bubbles that hide and take several tries to get rid of. Here is a problem with older cars. They get the laying on of hands all over the place. Some folks who know what they are doing, and sometimes little Billy Shafto at his daddy's lube place. Billy may NOT know the difference between radiator coolant and brake fluid. All he knows is they both go in a car somewhere, so what difference does it make? Sometimes it is carelessness. Some quick lube places use illegals. So - over 15 years who know who all has had their hands on your car? Shadetree mechanics. This isn't easy because it can be so many things. Say a BADLY rebuilt caliper, or two of them. I was in the parts business and we bought REBUILT calipers. You'd be surprised how many were BAD. I'd say we returned at least 20% of them. Same with other rebuilt parts. I am trying to think of any rebuilts we didn't have returns on. On calipers completely missing o-rings, wrong size o-rings, twisted o-rings. Badly pitted pistons. So you never know what it really is till you find it, and then you tell yourself THERE is where you should have started. UH HUH! Often you are chasing the problem. Put one new part in and another older one fails. You think it's the same problem but it is just transferring down the line. Still, for the fun of it, replace the bearings. > The problem I've seen on some old brake hoses is not hardening, but a > deterioration of the lining. The lining flakes off and blocks the line so > when the pedal is released, residual pressure keeps the caliper piston from > releasing. I replaced the brake hoses. Problem still persists. But please notice that in my story about my trip to the airport, I did not use my brakes for like 30 miles of hte trip since there was no traffic on the highway at 3AM. But, at one point, without using my brakes at all, the problem started. It starts as you notice more gas pedal effort needed to move the car (dragging), then the vibration starts gradually and builds up in intensity. I can only assume this might be caused by the wheel getting hotter and hotter and eventually heating up the tire.... does this make sense? could it be a brake booster problem? -Jon > > Replace both front brake hoses, replace the brake fluid, and bleed the > > brakes. > > That may not get the problem. Most tire places use a "static balance." > system. Which region(s) are you basing this data on? Static balancing would yield a satisfactory result for most people most of the time, but what reputable shop relies on this method anymore? > Okay for some purposes on newer cars, but this car is 15 years old. > Wheels on the 93 Toyota were not exactly the strongest. What exactly is wrong with 93 Corolla wheels? Do you even know what their dimensions are? How many lugs and what's their spacing? What changed about this in 1998? > The wheel needs a > dynamic balance and CLOSE inspection to see how true it is running. On the > older cars potholes can tend to cause the wheels to become bent. Yes, newer cars avoid this entirely. > I'd start there. Also the Corolla of the 90's was famous for bad wheel bearings. I'm curious, what specific problems were the "90's Corolla wheel bearings" famous for? Would this include, say, a 1999 Corolla? > We could assume it has disc brakes on the front wheels, Why assume something (that is groin-poundingly obvious anyway)? Really? "Disc brakes" on the front of a 90's rice burner? Wow, what will they think of next?! > A close inspection of > the spindle and the rotor are next. Not knowing how many miles are on the > car (generally we can assume over 100,000) Of course you can; you prophesied that his car has disc brakes! Who would doubt your clairvoyance? > at this age as a minimum - you > have all sorts of culprits along the way as possibles. Maybe even [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > turned, they get sort of square after a while. As the too THINK rotor heats > up it tends to go our of round. After a shotgun rotor replacement the problem still exists. Hmmmmmmmmm... > Look at the most likely first. Brake lines are down the list pretty > far. Since it is only ONE side that seems to be causing the vibration I > would look for the most likely things first. Only one side wheel seems to be getting hotter that the rest. That doesn't mean the source of the vibration has been isolated to one side. > You MAY wind up with a bad > brake hose, but I'd look elsewhere first. Besides you can't really tell > about the hose even when you remove it. Not unless it is obviously > collapsed. Hardening of the brake hose arteries is not impossible, just > unlikely. Let's copmpletely discount it then. > You can start to see the problem when you spin up the wheel on the car. > Most tire stores will CHECK the wheel balance OFF the car for free. You have a vast knowledge of what *most* shops will do. > Especially the store where you bought the tires. All above advice noted, now direct the OP to a competent mechanic. Toyota MDT in MO On Apr 18, 2:48 am, " krp" <krp24...@verizon.net> wrote: > > Replace both front brake hoses, replace the brake fluid, and bleed the > > brakes. > That may not get the problem. Most tire places use a "static balance." > system. < Which region(s) are you basing this data on? Static balancing would < yield a satisfactory result for most people most of the time, but what < reputable shop relies on this method anymore? Static balance only examine ONE exis of wheel balance and trueness. Granted most GOOD shops use dynamic balance today. Ever been in a Wal-Mart tire shop? K-Mart? > Okay for some purposes on newer cars, but this car is 15 years old. > Wheels on the 93 Toyota were not exactly the strongest. < What exactly is wrong with 93 Corolla wheels? Do you even know what < their dimensions are? How many lugs and what's their spacing? What < changed about this in 1998? The standard steel wheel on the Corolla is not the most robust. Which dimension are you talking about? The 15" rims with a 5 bolt pattern? Or do you want to talk about the thickness of the steel in the wheel itself? If so, at what point in the wheel? You know the bead is pretty thick, but the center section of the wheel where it is welded to the base is pretty thin. You know, I've never taken a mic to measure the spacing of the lig holes. I'll have to get back to you on that. Also not being a Toyota expert in that precise a manner, I'd probably never have seen the change from a 4 bolt pattern to the 5 bolt pattern. > The wheel needs a dynamic balance and CLOSE inspection to see how true it > is running. On the > older cars potholes can tend to cause the wheels to become bent. < Yes, newer cars avoid this entirely. No but wheel construction has been changed with more cars usily alloy wheels today. > I'd start there. Also the Corolla of the 90's was famous for bad wheel > bearings. < I'm curious, what specific problems were the "90's Corolla wheel < bearings" famous for? Would this include, say, a 1999 Corolla? The problems were in going SQUARE of not inspected and repacked every 20,000 miles or so. > We could assume it has disc brakes on the front wheels, < Why assume something (that is groin-poundingly obvious anyway)? < Really? "Disc brakes" on the front of a 90's rice burner? Wow, what < will they think of next?! Round tires. Smart a.s. > A close inspection of the spindle and the rotor are next. Not knowing how > many miles are on the > car (generally we can assume over 100,000) < Of course you can; you prophesied that his car has disc brakes! Who < would doubt your clairvoyance? Look clown - I know people with a 1989 Toyota with 40,000 miles on them. I also know some folks with 200,000 miles on a 2006 Corolla. > at this age as a minimum - you have all sorts of culprits along the way as > possibles. Maybe even > combinations. That's without getting to any suspension parts. Look at the > most likely first. > 1. Bent wheel. > 2. Bad wheel balance. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > heats > up it tends to go our of round. < After a shotgun rotor replacement the problem still exists.Hmmmmmmmmm... I was speaking of TURNING the rotor. There are only so many times you can shave a rotor on the best of cars. Also lots depends on the mechanic, they can shave too much off. And that isn't uncommon. > Look at the most likely first. Brake lines are down the list pretty > far. Since it is only ONE side that seems to be causing the vibration I > would look for the most likely things first. < Only one side wheel seems to be getting hotter that the rest. That < doesn't mean the source of the vibration has been isolated to one < side. Yeah - and IF the problem is ONLY brake related (hanging calipers) don't you think the rotor on that side would likely be a pretty shade of dark blue? AT least if not ridged? > You MAY wind up with a bad brake hose, but I'd look elsewhere first. > Besides you can't really tell > about the hose even when you remove it. Not unless it is obviously > collapsed. Hardening of the brake hose arteries is not impossible, just > unlikely. < Let's copmpletely discount it then. I didn't say that, did I, smartass? I merely said START with the MOST LIKELY - then those things have been eliminated you progress. HOWEVER - in this case IF it is brakes - most likely it will show. What I have seen on 15 year old cars is repairs done often on the cheap. Rotors turned when they shouldn't have been. Calipers kept on when they should have been replaced. One too many back yard repairs by owners. Usually young and inexperienced. Again the KEY here is whether or not the tires were mounted in an ACTUAL garage or the back yard. IF this were the brakes as dogmaticly suggested here, IF the problem is a hanging caliper or a bad brake hose, then it would have been hard to miss. IF the caliper is hanging with pressure not releasing, then the pads will be making constant contact with the rotors. BLUE AS HELL eventually. If it is that the brake hose on the right has collapsed or closed (hardening of the artery) than you sure as hell will tell it driving the car, and I don't mean a shaking. Don't you think if you have ONE SIDE where it is working okay and the other side isn't that when you hit the brakes it would tend to PULL just a little bit? Maybe violently?? That's not what I read so far. > You can start to see the problem when you spin up the wheel on the car. > Most tire stores will CHECK the wheel balance OFF the car for free. < You have a vast knowledge of what *most* shops will do. Look JACKASS - I worked for both Firestone AND Goodyear. I also owned my own parts store. Am I a mechanic? NO! But I know a LITTLE about cars.Enough to have raced in USAC and SCCA. > Especially the store where you bought the tires. < All above advice noted, now direct the OP to a competent mechanic. There are some things the owner can see. Like a BRIGHT DARK BLUE ROTOR. Don't you think a suspensioin part or CV joint is worth of consideration? > On Apr 18, 2:48 am, " krp" <krp24...@verizon.net> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Granted most GOOD shops use dynamic balance today. Ever been in a Wal-Mart > tire shop? K-Mart? The Wal-Mart and K-Mart shops here in the Midwest all use dynamic balancers. >> Okay for some purposes on newer cars, but this car is 15 years old. >> Wheels on the 93 Toyota were not exactly the strongest. [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > The problems were in going SQUARE of not inspected and repacked every > 20,000 miles or so. The wheel bearings on the OP's Corolla are sealed and are not repack-able. >> We could assume it has disc brakes on the front wheels, > [quoted text clipped - 97 lines] > There are some things the owner can see. Like a BRIGHT DARK BLUE ROTOR. > Don't you think a suspensioin part or CV joint is worth of consideration? I've seen lots of rotors warp that are not discolored. The best way to check the condition of the rotor is to measure lateral and radial runout. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) >>> > Replace both front brake hoses, replace the brake fluid, and bleed the >>> > brakes. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> Granted most GOOD shops use dynamic balance today. Ever been in a >> Wal-Mart tire shop? K-Mart? > The Wal-Mart and K-Mart shops here in the Midwest all use dynamic > balancers. In many parts of the country they HAVE them but do not always USE them. >>> Okay for some purposes on newer cars, but this car is 15 years old. >>> Wheels on the 93 Toyota were not exactly the strongest. >> < What exactly is wrong with 93 Corolla wheels? Do you even know what >> < their dimensions are? How many lugs and what's their spacing? What >> < changed about this in 1998? >> The standard steel wheel on the Corolla is not the most robust. Which >> dimension are you talking about? The 15" rims with a 5 bolt pattern? Or [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> expert in that precise a manner, I'd probably never have seen the change >> from a 4 bolt pattern to the 5 bolt pattern. >>> The wheel needs a dynamic balance and CLOSE inspection to see how true >>> it is running. On the older cars potholes can tend to cause the wheels >>> to become bent. >> < Yes, newer cars avoid this entirely. >> No but wheel construction has been changed with more cars usily alloy >> wheels today. >>> I'd start there. Also the Corolla of the 90's was famous for bad wheel >>> bearings. >> < I'm curious, what specific problems were the "90's Corolla wheel >> < bearings" famous for? Would this include, say, a 1999 Corolla? >> The problems were in going SQUARE of not inspected and repacked every >> 20,000 miles or so. > The wheel bearings on the OP's Corolla are sealed and are not repack-able. The WHEEL bearings on the spindle or the inner ones near the CV? >>> We could assume it has disc brakes on the front wheels, >> >> < Why assume something (that is groin-poundingly obvious anyway)? >> < Really? "Disc brakes" on the front of a 90's rice burner? Wow, what >> < will they think of next?! >> Round tires. Smart a.s. > >>> A close inspection of the spindle and the rotor are next. Not knowing >>> how many miles are on the >>> car (generally we can assume over 100,000) >> < Of course you can; you prophesied that his car has disc brakes! Who >> < would doubt your clairvoyance? >> Look clown - I know people with a 1989 Toyota with 40,000 miles on >> them. I also know some folks with 200,000 miles on a 2006 Corolla. >>> at this age as a minimum - you have all sorts of culprits along the way >>> as possibles. Maybe even [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >> < After a shotgun rotor replacement the problem still >> exists.Hmmmmmmmmm... >> I was speaking of TURNING the rotor. There are only so many times you >> can shave a rotor on the best of cars. Also lots depends on the mechanic, >> they can shave too much off. And that isn't uncommon. >>> Look at the most likely first. Brake lines are down the list pretty >>> far. Since it is only ONE side that seems to be causing the vibration I [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >>> collapsed. Hardening of the brake hose arteries is not impossible, just >>> unlikely. >> < Let's copmpletely discount it then. >> I didn't say that, did I, smartass? I merely said START with the MOST >> LIKELY - then those things have been eliminated you progress. HOWEVER - [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >> >> < You have a vast knowledge of what *most* shops will do. >> Look JACKASS - I worked for both Firestone AND Goodyear. I also owned >> my own parts store. Am I a mechanic? NO! But I know a LITTLE about >> cars.Enough to have raced in USAC and SCCA. >>> Especially the store where you bought the tires. >> < All above advice noted, now direct the OP to a competent mechanic. >> There are some things the owner can see. Like a BRIGHT DARK BLUE >> ROTOR. Don't you think a suspensioin part or CV joint is worth of >> consideration? > I've seen lots of rotors warp that are not discolored. The best way to > check the condition of the rotor is to measure lateral and radial runout. No duhh, BUT with a chronic problem you would expect either severe discoloration OR grooves. Again you use a MIC to see if the rotor is in spec. Then go from there. I NEVER said a bad brake hose was impossible, I just said that IT isn't where *I* would start. There are lots of FREE things you can check with an eyeball. >> The Wal-Mart and K-Mart shops here in the Midwest all use dynamic >> balancers. > > In many parts of the country they HAVE them but do not always USE them. I'll have to take your word for it since I don't go to Wal-Mart or K-Mart for tires. <snipped> >> The wheel bearings on the OP's Corolla are sealed and are not >> repack-able. > > The WHEEL bearings on the spindle or the inner ones near the CV? As I said, the WHEEL bearings are sealed. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) >>> The Wal-Mart and K-Mart shops here in the Midwest all use dynamic >>> balancers. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I'll have to take your word for it since I don't go to Wal-Mart or K-Mart > for tires. Neither do I, but I know people who have. Had a neighbor who worked for Wal Mart - did a brake job - got Wal Mart sued big time. > "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message > 1. Bent wheel. The tire shop showed me how the wheels turn on a machine. There is a small bit of run-out. But it was slight. Also, wouldn't run out cause a constant vibration? > 2. Bad wheel balance. The rebalanced when they put new tires on under waranty. The vibration still intermitently. > 3. Bad bearing. My mechanic says that when a bearing is shot, you can wobble the wheel when it is on the lift by pulling on it. The wheel didn't exhibit this behavior. > 4. Bad rotor or worn spindle. Rotors are 3k old. Never turned before. > 5. Suspension parts. (there are several high failure parts on thecorolla) Mechanic says he checked thoroughly through all of them... >> "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message > >> 1. Bent wheel. > The tire shop showed me how the wheels turn on a machine. There is a > small bit of run-out. But it was slight. Also, wouldn't run out > cause a constant vibration? Yes >> 2. Bad wheel balance. > The rebalanced when they put new tires on under waranty. The [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > when it is on the lift by pulling on it. The wheel didn't exhibit > this behavior. A bad bearing will not always have play in it but it should be noisy. I have never seen a bad bearing cause a vibration. >> 4. Bad rotor or worn spindle. > Rotors are 3k old. Never turned before. Even thought the rotor is fairly new if it was warped from the brakes being applied it needs to be machined or possibly even replaced. >> 5. Suspension parts. (there are several high failure parts on thecorolla) > Mechanic says he checked thoroughly through all of them... >> 1. Bent wheel. > The tire shop showed me how the wheels turn on a machine. There is a > small bit of run-out. But it was slight. Also, wouldn't run out > cause a constant vibration? No not necessarily. What size wheels are on it? The smaller the more even a slight out of round can act up. Usually consistant at certain speeds. A 14" rim is more sensitive than a 16. >> 2. Bad wheel balance. > The rebalanced when they put new tires on under waranty. The > vibration still intermitently. I'd look at the CV and suspension parts. >> 3. Bad bearing. > My mechanic says that when a bearing is shot, you can wobble the wheel > when it is on the lift by pulling on it. The wheel didn't exhibit > this behavior. Yep that's mostly true. >> 4. Bad rotor or worn spindle. > Rotors are 3k old. Never turned before. Okay - we're getting back to the CV again. >> 5. Suspension parts. (there are several high failure parts on thecorolla) > Mechanic says he checked thoroughly through all of them... Did he check the CV? > Did he check the CV? KRP, I will have him double check that CV on that side on thursday when i bring it in. Thanks :-) >> Did he check the CV? > > KRP, I will have him double check that CV on that side on thursday > when i bring it in. Thanks :-) It's only a GUESS. Check it for play. They don't always leak. > Replace both front brake hoses, replace the brake fluid, and bleed the > brakes. Ray, I had them do this. The problem still persists. Could it be a brake booster problem? > > Replace both front brake hoses, replace the brake fluid, and bleed the > > brakes. > > Ray, I had them do this. The problem still persists. Could it be a > brake booster problem? Yes it could if the problem is on both sides. If I recall you said one wheel is getting hot the other isn't. that seems to make it pretty clear that the brakes are dragging on that one side. It is unlikely that the wheel bearing is the cause of the hot wheel after 5k miles a bearing getting hot would be seized by now. So something is wrong with the brakes on that side. Maybe time to have another mechanic look at it. -jim ----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups ---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- >> > Replace both front brake hoses, replace the brake fluid, and bleed the >> > brakes. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > getting hot would be seized by now. So something is wrong with the brakes > on that side. Maybe time to have another mechanic look at it. From the description it COULD be the caliper, BUT I would look at the CV joint. A bad CV could cause the wheel to build heat. Again it is what is most likely. At this point I'd pull the caliper apart first. Look for contaminants especially by the pistons. You may wish to put kits in both calipers. Make sure it is BALANCED. There is also - I THINK - not being a Toyota expert - a proportioning valve somewhere right/left. If the left side is not doing its job - the right works double time. So you can't ignore the other side. Could be that the left caliper isn't working at all or poorly. >> Replace both front brake hoses, replace the brake fluid, and bleed the >> brakes. > > Ray, I had them do this. The problem still persists. Could it be a > brake booster problem? I read through most of the posts before responding. It is very unlikely that a master cylinder is causing the problem, and it is unlikely that a misadjusted push rod is causing the problem unless someone messed with the master cylinder or pushrod. It is possible, but not likely that a bad wheel bearing is causing the problem. Wheel bearings generally make a lot of noise before getting bad enough to actually cause a problem. A wheel or tire that is out of round either laterally or radially will cause a vibration, but not likely that the vibration will come and go and it will not make the wheel hot to the touch or bind the brakes so that is not high on my list. A bad CV joint will make noise, cause pulling, or fling grease all over the undercarriage before it causes an intermittent vibration and will not make the wheel hot to the touch or bind the brakes. If replacing the calipers did not change the problem, I would have guessed a bad brake hose. I read that you are replacing the front calipers, make sure that the slides are free and coated with disc brake grease or anti-seize. Where are you located? SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) > >> Replace both front brake hoses, replace the brake fluid, and bleed the > >> brakes. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > If replacing the calipers did not change the problem, I would have guessed a > bad brake hose. Replacing the calipers did change the problem. He finally revealed the problem started after he changed the calipers :) > I read that you are replacing the front calipers, make sure that the slides > are free and coated with disc brake grease or anti-seize. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Ray O > (correct punctuation to reply) ----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups ---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- On 4/21/08 9:32 PM, in article iaednQy4Q-kD0pDVnZ2dnUVZ_umdnZ2d@comcast.com, >>> Replace both front brake hoses, replace the brake fluid, and bleed the >>> brakes. [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Where are you located? I will add one additional possibility that I personally experienced on an Acura TL. A bad upper ball joint caused ALL the symptoms reported here on that car - hot wheel, apparent warping of the rotor, chattering brakes, all of it. >>>> Replace both front brake hoses, replace the brake fluid, and bleed the >>>> brakes. [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > all > of it. You know, IF a wheel threw a weight off it could do the same thing. On 4/22/08 9:56 PM, in article fzxPj.5431$Ux4.4916@trnddc07, "krp" >>&g |
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