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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / July 2008OK to remove thermostat?
Will it harm anything if I remove the therrmostat for the duration of the summer? My goal is to make the engine run cooler to extend the engine life. This is in reference to a 1994 Chevrolet Corsica with a 6 cylinder engine with 168,000 miles. The gasket is an o-ring that is part of the thermostat, so I will make my own gasket to fit around the thermostat housing to prevent leakage. Thank you. > Will it harm anything if I remove the therrmostat for the duration of the > summer? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > will make my own gasket to fit around the thermostat housing to prevent > leakage. Thank you. The engine is designed to run at a specific temperature to achieve the most efficient operation. No thermostat may make it run too cool and you'll be using a lot more gas, which in itself is not good for the engine. Although there are cases where no thermostat will allow the coolant to run thru the radiator too fast and NOT get cooled sufficiently.. The best thing you can do to extend the engine life is change the oil/filter every 3K or so > Although there are cases where no thermostat will allow the coolant to > run thru the radiator too fast and NOT get cooled sufficiently.. With all due respect, this is a myth. There are, on some designs, reasons why removing the thermostat may detract from cooling, but speed of flow through the radiator is definitely not valid. > > Although there are cases where no thermostat will allow the coolant to > > run thru the radiator too fast and NOT get cooled sufficiently.. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > the > radiator is definitely not valid. it's possibly possible if under certain conditions the turbulence from the increased flow louses up the heat transfer by causing localized eddy currents or some such, but pretty unlikely. the often heard argument that 'the coolant is going too fast to pick up the heat from the metal' demonstrates the profound failure of our school system to teach simple principles of basic physics. On May 14, 9:04 am, "HLS" <nos...@nospam.nix> wrote: > "BobJ" <jon...@excite.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > the > radiator is definitely not valid. it's possibly possible if under certain conditions the turbulence from the increased flow louses up the heat transfer by causing localized eddy currents or some such, but pretty unlikely. the often heard argument that 'the coolant is going too fast to pick up the heat from the metal' demonstrates the profound failure of our school system to teach simple principles of basic physics. Yes, it is... Turbulence can increase the heat transfer, while laminar flows can increase the coolant throughput. Both effects are somewhat offsetting. But the basic premise that fluid passes through the heat exchanger too quickly to allow cooling is absolutely bullshit.. Will run cooler, gas mileage will might/might not drop a few mpg's and it won't have any heat, but thats all. I'm not sure what fuel delivery system this car uses, but many injections systems will not enter the "warm" strategies if the temp is too low, which may make it run open loop. The gas mileage will drop, quite a bit, meaning like about 1/3 if you do that. >Will it harm anything if I remove the therrmostat for the duration of the >summer? No, but it won't do you any good. >My goal is to make the engine run cooler to extend the engine life. This is >in reference to a 1994 Chevrolet Corsica with a 6 cylinder engine with >168,000 miles. The gasket is an o-ring that is part of the thermostat, so I >will make my own gasket to fit around the thermostat housing to prevent >leakage. Thank you. The engine will run cooler only when it starts up, when you want it to heat up. It won't run any cooler during long hot drives, when the thermostat would be open anyway. This will not extend your engine's life, it will only reduce your gas mileage because it will take longer for the engine to come up to temperature. If the engine is running hot, find out what is causing it to run hot and fix it. If the engine is running hot, taking the thermostat out will not cause it to run any cooler. --scott  Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." > >Will it harm anything if I remove the therrmostat for the duration of the > >summer? [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > -- > "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." Modern thermostats are not bistable like the old ones. It is not just full open or full closed. Modern cooling systems do a good job of holding engine temp at a specific value. However, I agree with the idea of fixing any overheating problem properly. If there is not an overheating problem, don't monkey with it. > Modern thermostats are not bistable like the old ones. It is not just > full open or full closed. Modern cooling systems do a good job of > holding engine temp at a specific value. However, I agree with the > idea of fixing any overheating problem properly. If there is not an > overheating problem, don't monkey with it. Just how far back do you have to go to find a bistable thermostat, anyway? My oldest vehicle is a 1949 Plymouth with a 217 cid flathead six, and it has a continuously-regulating thermostat that holds the coolant right at 160 degrees F. Just like a modern system, except about 40 degrees cooler. And I know that Chrysler, at least, was using that system right from the start of the short-skirt six family of engines in the early 1930s, and probably back with the ZSB sixes in use at the start of the Chrysler Corporation in the 20s, for that matter. >Will it harm anything if I remove the therrmostat for the duration of the >summer? Bad idea. The engine should be running at design temp. If you run cool the computer can over richen the mixture which will hurt your gas mileage. You can run in to other problems like oil contamination if it doesn't get hot enough to burn off the excess fuel. Steve B. > Will it harm anything if I remove the therrmostat for the duration of the > summer? Yes. > My goal is to make the engine run cooler to extend the engine life. What you are proposing will likely shorten the life of the engine because it will never reach proper operating temperature. > This is > in reference to a 1994 Chevrolet Corsica with a 6 cylinder engine with > 168,000 miles. The gasket is an o-ring that is part of the thermostat, so I > will make my own gasket to fit around the thermostat housing to prevent > leakage. Thank you. Is this a solution to an overheating problem? If so you should fix the cause of the problem. Not only will the engine be running too cool, but the enriched fuel mixture will cause the catalytic converter to overheat and create a fire hazard. Roy On May 13, 6:32 pm, "J" <durhambusdri...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > Will it harm anything if I remove the therrmostat for the duration of the > summer? Yes. > My goal is to make the engine run cooler to extend the engine life. What you are proposing will likely shorten the life of the engine because it will never reach proper operating temperature. > This is > in reference to a 1994 Chevrolet Corsica with a 6 cylinder engine with > 168,000 miles. The gasket is an o-ring that is part of the thermostat, so > I > will make my own gasket to fit around the thermostat housing to prevent > leakage. Thank you. Is this a solution to an overheating problem? If so you should fix the cause of the problem. | Not only will the engine be running too cool Define too cool. If an engone is too hot ( torque drops ) in summer, air intake tmprtre will be @ least 40ºC ( ideal ), in summer this is the main tmprtre requirement to maximise torque, though cat convertor may not be hot enough to convert enough gases. | the enriched fuel mixture Mixture is rich only during open loop when e.g. my O2 sensor reads 0.62 - 0.65 v. | will cause the catalytic converter to overheat and create a fire hazard. During open loop, c-c is not even hot enough to work well. My c-c never caught fire during open loop ( even when prolonged 3- 4x by removal of thermostat ). | > Will it harm anything if I remove the therrmostat for the duration of the | > summer? | Yes. I used to remove mine on 2 engines, no damage noticeable. No need now, I found far better ways to cool engines. | What you are proposing will likely shorten the life of the engine Not in a hot summer. | because it will never reach proper operating temperature. True only in cold air. In warm / hot air, engine will but slower. I can give you some information assuming that yours is the same as my 1992 Beretta was. The 195 degF thermostat opening temperature is comparatively high and, considering the tendency to overheat, it might seem like a good idea to make it run cooler. (I blamed the overheating when sitting in traffic on the fact that the cooling fan covered only about 2/3 of the radiator.) The lower temperature thermostats that I was able to find did not have the disk on the bottom of the thermostat that blocks the bypass passage when the thermostat is fully opened, so you would have more overheating problems with the lower temperature thermostat. You could run without a thermostat and block the bypass passage e.g. with an epoxy cement plug. This would result in cooler running but could cause other problems; warm-up time would be much longer and it might not get warm enough for some emission controls e.g. charcoal canister purge to work. > Will it harm anything if I remove the therrmostat for the duration of the > summer? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > will make my own gasket to fit around the thermostat housing to prevent > leakage. Thank you. SignatureMike Walsh > Will it harm anything if I remove the therrmostat for the duration of the > summer? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > will make my own gasket to fit around the thermostat housing to prevent > leakage. Thank you. Engine wear is higher as you depart from design operating temperature in either direction. If the engine is too cold, metal parts will shrink, clearances will change, wear will increase. And then there's the unburned gas that slips by the rings and dilutes the oil in the crankcase. SignaturePaul Hovnanian paul@hovnanian.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Have gnu, will travel. >> Will it harm anything if I remove the therrmostat for the duration of the >> summer? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > either direction. If the engine is too cold, metal parts will shrink, > clearances will change, We're only talking about a 15 degree difference in temp here, how much will that affect an engine that is capable of starting at below zero and operating at over 200 degrees ? I would like to know how this clearance change occurs though. I would think that all parts in the engine would shrink when it gets cold. As an example, when the pistons shrink from the cold I would also assume the cylinder bore that houses the piston would also shrink the same amount. Or maybe when the crankshaft shrinks from the cold the main bearing journals, whick surround the crank, would also shrink the same amout. Now, I could be wrong, and if that's the case maybe you could explain why the engine doesn't seize up when it gets hot. wear will increase. And then there's the > unburned gas that slips by the rings and dilutes the oil in the > crankcase. Agree : if cylinder head & piston rings have the same co efficient of expansion*, * will be the same, designers make sure of this. | > wear will increase Only if plain mineral oil ( coarse, obsolete, too thick when cold, become tar by 121ºC ) is used. | > unburned gas that slips by the rings and dilutes the oil in the | > crankcase. Only before PCV was invented, www.aa1car.com/library/pcv.htm. He's decades out of date. > Agree : if cylinder head & piston rings have the same co > efficient of expansion*, * will be the same, designers [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Only before PCV was invented, www.aa1car.com/library/pcv.htm. > He's decades out of date. No, if the engine runs too cool because of missing thermostat, increased wear will still occur due to fuel dilution of oil because the engine's controls will be stuck in warm up mode. nate Signaturereplace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel | wear will still occur due to fuel dilution of oil Impossible, petrol is very evaporative, in summer oil will be hot enough to evaporate off petrol, pcv will suck petrol fume into air intake | engine's controls will be stuck in warm up mode Temperature sensor cannot work ?.Then what's it for ? > | wear will still occur due to fuel dilution of oil > Impossible, petrol is very evaporative, in summer oil will [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > | engine's controls will be stuck in warm up mode > Temperature sensor cannot work ?.Then what's it for ? The temperature sensor will still be working "correctly" just telling the computer that the engine isn't fully warmed up yet. nate Signaturereplace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel > | wear will still occur due to fuel dilution of oil > Impossible, petrol is very evaporative, in summer oil will [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > | engine's controls will be stuck in warm up mode > Temperature sensor cannot work ?.Then what's it for ? Gasoline is not a single hydrocarbon. It has a number of constituents of varying vapor pressure. Some components do evaporate readily, but the heavier components of the cut do not. Nor do some of the additives (gasoline these days is not just gasoline). What remains may not be the best lubricant. >>| wear will still occur due to fuel dilution of oil >>Impossible, petrol is very evaporative, in summer oil will [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > additives (gasoline these days is not just gasoline). What remains > may not be the best lubricant. Plus, there's more of it being injected in warm up mode- same as leaving the choke on on a carb'd vehicle. nate Signaturereplace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel | What remains may not be the best lubricant. ~8x I've used a white funnel* to pour BP petrol, & left * to dry : when dry, no residue could be seen / felt >> | wear will still occur due to fuel dilution of oil >> Impossible, petrol is very evaporative, in summer oil will [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > additives (gasoline these days is not just gasoline). What remains > may not be the best lubricant. And what about water blow-by condensing in the crankcase? Nobody has mentioned sludge. > Will it harm anything if I remove the therrmostat for the duration of the > summer? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > will make my own gasket to fit around the thermostat housing to prevent > leakage. Thank you. Running an engine cooler doesn't extend life. If you measure cylinder wall wear as a function of metal temperature, the wear is actually much higher at say 140 degrees F than it is at 200 degrees F. That is purely a metallurgical phenomenon. Then there's the whole issue of excessive fuel diluting the engine oil at lower operating temps. The thermostat is there, in part, to EXTEND engine life. Maybe try a lower pressure Rad Cap. Comments? On May 14, 7:27 pm, box...@sasktel.net wrote: > Maybe try a lower pressure Rad Cap. Comments? What would that do? > Maybe try a lower pressure Rad Cap. Comments? That will just let the coolant boil quicker if there is an overheating problem. A higher pressure radiator cap raises the boiling point of the coolant. > Will it harm anything if I remove the therrmostat for the duration of the > summer? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > will make my own gasket to fit around the thermostat housing to prevent > leakage. Thank you. it'll probably run OK, but you'll end up getting more fuel and water contaminating the oil during the longer warm up period, and probably end up shortening the engine life if anything.
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