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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / February 2005Geo Metro Gauge problems
Hi, I have a Geo Metro (1992, 2 door, 3 cylinder) and the fuel and temperature gauges have started to act crazy. The temperature gauge was particularly alarming because it indicated that the car was overheating. I had a mechanic check it and he said the temperature is fine and that the gauges are probably broken. He said it would cost ~$200 to fix it. He also said as long as I keep an eye on the coolant and keep the gas tank full, that I can probably leave it broken. He didn't seem too enthusiastic about my idea to replace the engine with a rebuilt. I bought the car with abtou 81,000 miles on it and had to get the engine essentially rebuilt after buying it. Since then, I've put over 100,000 miles on the car. It still gets 50 mpg and runs quite well. The mechanic, in Pennsylvania where I now live, said that the body is probably in bad shape, but he didn't check it. I moved from Montana where they don't salt the street, so corosion is not as bad there. Any thoughts and opinions about the gauges or the rebuilt engine idea? I can't afford a new car and I don't want to buy a used car because they are typically in bad shape and require a lot of work initially. At least with a rebuilt engine, I'd know the engine is OK. I travel quite a bit, about 1200 miles per month, and am worried my car's days are coming to an end. Thank you for your help and advice. By the way, I don't know anything about car engines and repair, so please be patient with me. Sincerely, Heath >Hi, >I have a Geo Metro (1992, 2 door, 3 cylinder) and the fuel and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >~$200 to fix it. He also said as long as I keep an eye on the coolant >and keep the gas tank full, that I can probably leave it broken. I sort of agree with this to this point. But I've seen gauge kits at car parts stores that have all you need fuel amperes oil pressure and the only question I have is how to hook them up to the sensors. That is going to be the tough part of the job. The gauges are cheap enough, but finding out how to hook them up to the sensors for those things is a mystery unless you know someone who is familiar with your particular automobile. Maybe the instructions that come with the kit have the instructions, don't know. >He didn't seem too enthusiastic about my idea to replace the engine >with a rebuilt. I bought the car with abtou 81,000 miles on it and had >to get the engine essentially rebuilt after buying it. Since then, I've >put over 100,000 miles on the car. It still gets 50 mpg and runs quite >well. The mechanic, in Pennsylvania where I now live, said that the >body is probably in bad shape, but he didn't check it. I've driven cars where you could see the road beneath you if you looked down from the driver's seat. So? I never fell out of one, although I =did= get a ticket in Pennsylvania from a cop who said something about my car needing to have something on it fixed, can't remember what now, too many years ago. > I moved from >Montana where they don't salt the street, so corosion is not as bad >there. >Any thoughts and opinions about the gauges or the rebuilt engine idea? Engine is probably OK in my opinion. If you need a gauge kit, see above. BTW, getting it fixed for less than $200 sounds like a hell of a bargain. >I can't afford a new car and I don't want to buy a used car because >they are typically in bad shape and require a lot of work initially. At [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Sincerely, >Heath I think if I were in your situation, I would go to a parts store, open a box that has a gauge cluster in it, and scope out the installation instructions. If it looked like something I could do myself, ( route some wires from some sending sensors to the back of the gauge cluster ) then I would probably buy the kit, install the wires, and be happy about it. Lg >>Hi, >>I have a Geo Metro (1992, 2 door, 3 cylinder) and the fuel and [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > > Lg Don't even bother, just go straight to the junkyard. an IP for a Metro can't be that desirable an item. nate  Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel >>>Hi, >>>I have a Geo Metro (1992, 2 door, 3 cylinder) and the fuel and [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] > >nate You have to think about the work involved in that. Possibly remove instrument panel from junked Metro Remove instrument panel from OP's car Install instrument panel from JY into OP's car hope everything works. That's a lot of screwdriver work there, maybe you need special torx bits, maybe you have to know where all the fasteners are hidden to begin with. How many times have you thought you had all the screws out and went to pull off a panel only to realize there were more fasteners -somewhere- that had to come out? Sure if OP wants to go through all of this, it will be a great learning experience, but I get the impression he just wants his information back as soon as possible with the least amount of fuss. Lg >>>>Hi, >>>>I have a Geo Metro (1992, 2 door, 3 cylinder) and the fuel and [quoted text clipped - 81 lines] > > Lg So you think wiring up an aftermarket fuel gauge would be less work? What makes you think the problem isn't a bad sending unit or wiring? Or does that aftermarket unit you're talking about come with a new fuel sender? Gee.... if that's the case the gas tank has to come out. But hey, at least he won't have wasted 30 minutes replacing his cluster. Unbelievable..... Bob >So you think wiring up an aftermarket fuel gauge would be less work? What >makes you think the problem isn't a bad sending unit or wiring? Or does that >aftermarket unit you're talking about come with a new fuel sender? Gee.... >if that's the case the gas tank has to come out. But hey, at least he won't >have wasted 30 minutes replacing his cluster. Unbelievable..... > Bob What is unbelievable, is you are STILL on my a.s. After it like a rabid dog. And like a rabid dog, you should be approached by Animal Control with due caution, and disposed of forthwith. Lg >>So you think wiring up an aftermarket fuel gauge would be less work? What >>makes you think the problem isn't a bad sending unit or wiring? For the same reason I don't think a flock of Mallard Ducks are going to fly out of your a.s. What makes you think it IS a bad sending unit or wiring. eh? >>Or does that >>aftermarket unit you're talking about come with a new fuel sender? Gee.... >>if that's the case the gas tank has to come out. But hey, at least he won't >>have wasted 30 minutes replacing his cluster. Unbelievable..... >> Bob Yah, you have quite an imagination, bottom boy. You come up with all kinds of horseshit ideas that have no basis in Reality. Lg >>>So you think wiring up an aftermarket fuel gauge would be less work? >>>What [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > What makes you think it IS a bad sending unit or wiring. eh? I didn't say it was because I have no idea what his problem is. 20 minutes with a DVOM and a wiring digram and I would know exactly what his problem is though. >>>Or does that >>>aftermarket unit you're talking about come with a new fuel sender? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Lg You're the one who said to go to the parts store and get an aftermarket fuel gauge. Here is your challenge, post a link to an aftermarket gauge that is cheap and will work with the stock Geo sending unit.. Bob >>>>So you think wiring up an aftermarket fuel gauge would be less work? >>>>What [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >cheap and will work with the stock Geo sending unit.. > Bob Here is YOUR challenge. Shut the f.ck up and let me post according to my First Amendment Rights, without harassing me every inch of the way. Lg >>So you think wiring up an aftermarket fuel gauge would be less work? What >>makes you think the problem isn't a bad sending unit or wiring? Or does [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Lg Like I said Larry, I consider it a public service. A lot of the visitors here don't realize how truly stupid most of your ideas are. I'm just doing them a favor by pointing out the stupidest of your ideas. Bob >>>So you think wiring up an aftermarket fuel gauge would be less work? What >>>makes you think the problem isn't a bad sending unit or wiring? Or does [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >them a favor by pointing out the stupidest of your ideas. > Bob Installing an aftermarket gauge kit is a stupid idea? Well then, you should be spending all your time tomorrow running around to all the auto parts stores telling them to take the products off the shelves instead of wasting your time here in the n/g. THAT would be a Public Service, as soon as the men with the little butterfly nets caught up with you. Lg > Installing an aftermarket gauge kit is a stupid idea? Well then, you > should be spending all your time tomorrow running around to all the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Lg Concentrate Larry, FUEL GAUGE is the gauge in question. Those gauge trios you keep yapping about usually house gauges for temperature, oil pressure and amps or volts. I've never seen one with a fuel gauge in it. There are fuel gauges being made for street rods etc. but I don't think they are cheap and you won't find them on the shelf at AutoZone. Bob >> Installing an aftermarket gauge kit is a stupid idea? Well then, you >> should be spending all your time tomorrow running around to all the [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >and you won't find them on the shelf at AutoZone. > Bob You don't think. right. >>>>So you think wiring up an aftermarket fuel gauge would be less work? What >>>>makes you think the problem isn't a bad sending unit or wiring? Or does [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > auto parts stores telling them to take the products off the shelves > instead of wasting your time here in the n/g. Just because it's a stupid idea doesn't mean that people don't try it, the products don't sell, or there aren't legitimate applications for them (like street rods with custom-made dashes.) F'rinstance, I will probably be buying a mechanical aftermarket temperature gauge this weekend; reason being my "new" car had a badly done 6 to 12V conversion at some point in its life, and I know that getting all the stock gauges working is going to be a PITA (but would like to start testing stuff out.) However, when we're talking about a late model, unmodified car, it's almost always easier just to get the right part the first time - no puzzling over wiring diagrams, hacking stuff to make it fit, etc. etc. etc. I can pull the IP in my Porsche in about 10 minutes. Is it *really* that much more difficult to do it in a Metro? > THAT would be a Public Service, as soon as the men with the little > butterfly nets caught up with you. Off your meds again? nate Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel >>>>>So you think wiring up an aftermarket fuel gauge would be less work? What >>>>>makes you think the problem isn't a bad sending unit or wiring? Or does [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > >nate Do you think you are *better* than me like Bob does, Nate? You think your sh.t tastes like ice cream but everybody else's stinks? You're a goddamn GREASE monkey, Nitwit, nothing more, nothing less, and once a grease monkey ALWAYS a grease monkey. Now, that isn't all bad, but you don't need a high school diploma for that either. Lg > Do you think you are *better* than me like Bob does, Nate? > You think your sh.t tastes like ice cream but everybody else's stinks? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Lg Lawrence, Nate is an engineer. Try to pay attention. >> Do you think you are *better* than me like Bob does, Nate? >> You think your sh.t tastes like ice cream but everybody else's stinks? [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >Try to pay attention. So is my garbage man, or haven't you heard. He calls himself a "Sanitary Engineer" If everybody is an Engineer, nobody is an Engineer. Lg > >Lawrence, Nate is an engineer. > > > >Try to pay attention. > > So is my garbage man, or haven't you heard. No, I haven't heard. Why would I know one single thing about -your- garbage man? > He calls himself a "Sanitary Engineer" That's nice, he's invented a comfy name for his profession. > If everybody is an Engineer, nobody is an Engineer. Maybe true, maybe not. Either way, Nate -IS- an engineer, and YOU are seriously confused. >> >Lawrence, Nate is an engineer. >> > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >Maybe true, maybe not. Either way, Nate -IS- an engineer, and >YOU are seriously confused. Ain't we all. Think about it. Lg > >Maybe true, maybe not. Either way, Nate -IS- an engineer, and > >YOU are seriously confused. > > Ain't we all. > Think about it. I did. You're wrong. >> >Maybe true, maybe not. Either way, Nate -IS- an engineer, and >> >YOU are seriously confused. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >You're wrong. FAMOUS fuckin' last words of a whole _shitload_ of know-it-alls. Lg > >> >Maybe true, maybe not. Either way, Nate -IS- an engineer, and > >> >YOU are seriously confused. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > FAMOUS fuckin' last words of a whole _shitload_ of know-it-alls. Now, if Bob and myself and Nate, given our respective professions -weren't- know-it- alls, you'd be bitching about that also, wouldn't you? >> >> >Maybe true, maybe not. Either way, Nate -IS- an engineer, and >> >> >YOU are seriously confused. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >-weren't- know-it- alls, you'd be bitching about that also, >wouldn't you? Well, give a guy some slack. The are some things that I can't/won't get to that a shop can and will. So, maybe you are right about that. Lg >>>>>>So you think wiring up an aftermarket fuel gauge would be less work? What >>>>>>makes you think the problem isn't a bad sending unit or wiring? Or does [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > > Lg I guess it would blow a hole in your theory if I told you that I *wasn't* a professional mechanic, just a weekend warrior/tinkerer with old things mechanical - and that I actually have an engineering degree. Now as for the "better" comment - I'm sure there are some things that you're better at than I am, that's true for pretty much everyone. I'd be willing to wager money, however, that in your case fixing cars isn't one of them. In any case - an aftermarket fuel gauge will most likely be calibrated for a Stewart-Warner sender. Now that's all fine and dandy if you have a Stewart-Warner sender in the tank, but it will still be more work to install than just replacing the stock gauge. You have to mount the blame thing, which means you need a panel, and then find a switched hot wire and intercept the wire going to the sender. Also find a dash light wire if you want to read it at night, and probably run a ground as well as metal dashes seem to have fallen out of favor. If you *don't* have a S-W sender in the tank (and there are at least two other types that I'm aware of, and at least one of them actually increases resistance in the *opposite* direction) you are squarely in the realm of custom work, something that is Not Fun when you're talking about a fuel tank, and once you're down that road you realize that you would have been better off to just pay the nice man the $200 to fix it right. This is all assuming, of course, that the problem is the actual gauge itself and not a wiring or sender issue. If he just buys an aftermarket gauge and slaps it in, how's he gonna know whether or not it works? Step One would be to pull the IP, get a wiring diagram, and check the resistance between the wire from the sender and ground to see if it falls in a reasonable range (i.e. in between the "full" and "empty" resistance specs given in the shop manual.) Now we can either continue comparing dick sizes, or just shut the hell up and wait for someone with real experience with a Geo Metro to chime in. nate Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel >>>>>>>So you think wiring up an aftermarket fuel gauge would be less work? What >>>>>>>makes you think the problem isn't a bad sending unit or wiring? Or does [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] >*wasn't* a professional mechanic, just a weekend warrior/tinkerer with >old things mechanical - and that I actually have an engineering degree. My wife has a MASTER'S DEGREE. And I bet she makes 3 times as much money as you do. Now my doctor, he has an M.D. That's pretty good. And I think I know someone who even has a PhD. Just to put things into proper perspective. >Now as for the "better" comment - I'm sure there are some things that >you're better at than I am, that's true for pretty much everyone. The humility! The Humanity! > I'd >be willing to wager money, however, that in your case fixing cars isn't >one of them. Practice makes perfect, and I am in full agreement with you when you suggest you have more experience in this area than I do. >In any case - an aftermarket fuel gauge will most likely be calibrated >for a Stewart-Warner sender. Now that's all fine and dandy if you have [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >once you're down that road you realize that you would have been better >off to just pay the nice man the $200 to fix it right. To be fair, I did suggest that was a Good Price considering the alternatives. >This is all assuming, of course, that the problem is the actual gauge >itself and not a wiring or sender issue. If he just buys an aftermarket >gauge and slaps it in, how's he gonna know whether or not it works? Because he can run his own wiring? I mean, I have tons of spools of twisted wire over here with gasoline-impervious insulation, and high heat ratings. Wire is cheap. >Step One would be to pull the IP, get a wiring diagram, and check the >resistance between the wire from the sender and ground to see if it >falls in a reasonable range (i.e. in between the "full" and "empty" >resistance specs given in the shop manual.) He doesn't -have- a shop manual. >Now we can either continue comparing dick sizes, or just shut the hell >up and wait for someone with real experience with a Geo Metro to chime in. > >nate Hold your breath. You can start breathing again when another Metro owner shows up to answer the question. Lg > >>>>>>>So you think wiring up an aftermarket fuel gauge would be less work? What > >>>>>>>makes you think the problem isn't a bad sending unit or wiring? Or does [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > >>>them (like street rods with custom-made dashes.) F'rinstance, I will > >>>probably be buying a mechanical aftermarket temperature gauge this > >>>weekend; reason being my "new" car had a badly done 6 to 12V conversion > >>>at some point in its life, and I know that getting all the stock gauges [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > My wife has a MASTER'S DEGREE. And I bet she makes 3 times as much > money as you do. a) what does her degree have anything to do with fixing a car? b) since when was how much money someone made a measure of their worth as a person, or their ability to offer correct advice on fixing a car? c) if you really are married, your wife should be nominated for sainthood. > Now my doctor, he has an M.D. That's pretty good. > And I think I know someone who even has a PhD. Just to put things > into proper perspective. What perspective would that be? > >Now as for the "better" comment - I'm sure there are some things that > >you're better at than I am, that's true for pretty much everyone. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Practice makes perfect, and I am in full agreement with you when you > suggest you have more experience in this area than I do. All right then. So why are you apparently disagreeing with the advice I gave the OP? > >In any case - an aftermarket fuel gauge will most likely be calibrated > >for a Stewart-Warner sender. Now that's all fine and dandy if you have [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >*opposite* direction) you are squarely in the realm of custom work, > >something that is Not Fun when you're talking about a fuel tank, and > >once you're down that road you realize that you would have been better > >off to just pay the nice man the $200 to fix it right. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > twisted wire over here with gasoline-impervious insulation, and high > heat ratings. Wire is cheap. Yeah, but running it is a PITA and an aftermarket gauge slapped on somewhere will a) cost as much or more than the correct part at a junkyard b) look like the knot in a dog's dick. > >Step One would be to pull the IP, get a wiring diagram, and check the > >resistance between the wire from the sender and ground to see if it > >falls in a reasonable range (i.e. in between the "full" and "empty" > >resistance specs given in the shop manual.) > > He doesn't -have- a shop manual. He didn't say that, but if he doesn't, he should get one. > >Now we can either continue comparing dick sizes, or just shut the hell > >up and wait for someone with real experience with a Geo Metro to chime in. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Lg Whatever. Just do us all a favor and don't bother posting unless you actually have experience with whatever the hell you're talking about. nate >> >> On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 21:25:06 -0500, Nate Nagel ><njnagel@flycast.net> [quoted text clipped - 105 lines] >b) since when was how much money someone made a measure of their worth >as a person, or their ability to offer correct advice on fixing a car? ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// >c) if you really are married, your wife should be nominated for >sainthood. BINGO! GIVE THE MAN $300 AND A FREE PASS TO THE GIRLIE SHOW! ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// >> Now my doctor, he has an M.D. That's pretty good. >> And I think I know someone who even has a PhD. Just to put things >> into proper perspective. > >What perspective would that be? No matter how big and tough you are, there is ALWAYS somebody bigger and tougher. No matter how smart you think you are, there is ALWAYS somebody smarter. >> >Now as for the "better" comment - I'm sure there are some things >that [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >isn't >> >one of them. I do the best I can with what I have. I do "regular maintenance" which is preventive maintenance, which is probably more than MOST people do. Like aarcuda says, most people wait until a catastrophic failure before they do anything. I try to keep a few steps ahead of the game so that never happens. No because I -like- it, but because I don't have the MONEY to pay for major repairs, period. Best not to get into that situation to begin with, IMO. >> Practice makes perfect, and I am in full agreement with you when you >> suggest you have more experience in this area than I do. > >All right then. So why are you apparently disagreeing with the advice >I gave the OP? My experience tells me that if you haven't done it before, taking apart a dashboard ain't all that simple. Especially if you don't have a diagram showing you where the fasteners are. Especially if you've never done anything like that before. I -have- on my old junkers, but would be scared to death to do this on my pricey new car. My _only_ car. I screw it up ( pun ) and I'm in for a tow job and a hefty repair bill. Simple as that. >> >In any case - an aftermarket fuel gauge will most likely be >calibrated [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] >somewhere will a) cost as much or more than the correct part at a >junkyard b) look like the knot in a dog's dick. I don't think OP is worried about looks here. He wants a working instrument cluster. Installing an aftermarket gauge can't be brain surgery. >> >Step One would be to pull the IP, get a wiring diagram, and check >the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >He didn't say that, but if he doesn't, he should get one. I am sure he doesn't have ANY manual. could be wrong about that though. >> >Now we can either continue comparing dick sizes, or just shut the >hell [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >nate YOU do the same OK? Then we don't have to listen to your crap either. Lg Thank you all for your help. I'll go to a parts store and check out the gauges. I might be able to install them. I don't care about the gas gauge that much because I can keep it full, I'm a bit more concerned about the T gauge. Thanks again! Heath >Thank you all for your help. I'll go to a parts store and check out the >gauges. I might be able to install them. I don't care about the gas >gauge that much because I can keep it full, I'm a bit more concerned >about the T gauge. Thanks again! >Heath YOU GO BOY! Don't listen to these *experts* who want you to think only They hold the Magic Keys to the Kingdom of Wisdom. Go get the gauge and install it yourself !!! Success is the BEST REVENGE ! Lg > Success is the BEST REVENGE ! Exactly who is he getting this revenge on? Bob? Nate? I think the butter has slipped off your noodles. >> Success is the BEST REVENGE ! > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >I think the butter has slipped off your noodles. POWER TO THE PEOPLE mutha fucka !!! Take your SAE paperwork and shove it where the sun don't shine. Bunch of harlots many of you -are-. I've seen you rape old people of their Life Savings every day, claiming if you don't do this, if you don't replace that, you won't have a car anymore. Most of ya belong in the fuckin' callaboose. With the bars welded SHUT! Lg > >> Success is the BEST REVENGE ! > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > POWER TO THE PEOPLE mutha fucka !!! You old hippie you. > Take your SAE paperwork and shove it where the sun don't shine. Which SAE paperwork would that be Lawrence? > Bunch of harlots many of you -are-. I've seen you rape old people of > their Life Savings every day, claiming if you don't do this, if you > don't replace that, you won't have a car anymore. I'll lay any odds that you want that you've never met me, seen me or even been within 50 miles of me or any other regular contributor to this group. > Most of ya belong in the fuckin' callaboose. With the bars welded > SHUT! Your proof? >> >> Success is the BEST REVENGE ! >> > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >You old hippie you. Yah, I am old, drying out, and soon become one with last year's Autumn Leaves. This isn't a happy thought for me, but I can already hear some of you shouting with joy from your windows ;-\ >> Take your SAE paperwork and shove it where the sun don't shine. > >Which SAE paperwork would that be Lawrence? I dunno >> Bunch of harlots many of you -are-. I've seen you rape old people of >> their Life Savings every day, claiming if you don't do this, if you [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >or even been within 50 miles of me or any other regular >contributor to this group. I think you are right >> Most of ya belong in the fuckin' callaboose. With the bars welded >> SHUT! > >Your proof? Well I see a lot of older people in the waiting rooms at the Service Shop. I am "chatty" person and talk about why they are there, IF they show a sign they are interested in discussing this. I tell them why I am there. Sometimes you are in the room for hours so you have to say _something_. Naturally, the "car" issue comes up. It is only anecdotal evidence, but backed up with Inside Reporter Eyewitness News from Channel 5 Chicago, about the rip-offs that go on at repair shops, be they dealerships or otherwise. If you want hard copy, contact Channel 5 TV, Chicago, Illinois, and they will give you an eyefull and an earfull of dishonest shops that: charge customers for parts they said they installed when the original parts are still on the vehicle! This is documented because the ORIGINAL PARTS were marked with ultraviolet INK ! Creating damage to hoses and belts, by reaching into the engine compartment and CUTTING THEM with razors and knives !!! Caught On Tape, buddy. Caught on Tape. Felony damage to property, and theft by deception. Caught on Tape. And you can multiply that by 10,000 everyDAY and you realize that the Car Repair Business is the biggest rip-off going on in the USA today, aside from the war in Iraq. You need websites? I can give you hundreds. Lg > >You old hippie you. > > Yah, I am old, drying out, and soon become one with last year's Autumn > Leaves. This isn't a happy thought for me, but I can already hear > some of you shouting with joy from your windows ;-\ My windows won't be opened until April at least. > >> Take your SAE paperwork and shove it where the sun don't shine. > > > >Which SAE paperwork would that be Lawrence? > > I dunno So why did you say that? > >> Bunch of harlots many of you -are-. I've seen you rape old people of > >> their Life Savings every day, claiming if you don't do this, if you [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > I think you are right I know I'm right. Yes Lawrence, I charge for what I do, but I didn't design it, I didn't build it, I didn't sell it, I didn't put all those miles on it and I didn't break it and I don't control the prices that the parts department charges. > >> Most of ya belong in the fuckin' callaboose. With the bars welded > >> SHUT! [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Shop. I am "chatty" person and talk about why they are there, IF they > show a sign they are interested in discussing this. Uh-huh... > I tell them why I am there. Sometimes you are in the room for hours > so you have to say _something_. Naturally, the "car" issue comes up. Naturally. > It is only anecdotal evidence, but backed up with Inside Reporter > Eyewitness News from Channel 5 Chicago, about the rip-offs that go on [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Caught On Tape, buddy. Caught on Tape. Felony damage to property, > and theft by deception. Caught on Tape. Yet these victims keep returning, allowing that crooked business to remain in operation. Whose fault is that? There is no uniform regulatory oversight for auto repair, the laws and regulations simply do not exist outside of a few states. That is not the auto repair professions fault, it is the fault of the public at large. Canada has their system in place, but I don't believe it has any meaningful effect WRT what you are describing here. Marion Berry was re-elected as mayor of Washington DC AFTER he was convicted of dealing crack cocaine. Is it possible that people in general -want- to be f.cked over? You seem to be happiest when you're miserable. > And you can multiply that by > 10,000 everyDAY and you realize that the Car Repair Business is the > biggest rip-off going on in the USA today, aside from the war in Iraq. I disagree. > You need websites? I can give you hundreds. A few years ago, Readers Digest did an article exposing the dentistry profession, same thing as what you're claiming about auto repair except that the dollar amounts that were being fraudulently sought by the dentists were much, much higher than what's involved when cutting belts and hoses. In all fairness, Readers Digest also did an expose' article about auto repair rip-offs, the number of unscrupulous mechanics was much lower than that of dentists. I'm not making any of this up, you can probably still find the back issues at your local library. The solution is to not patronize crooked mechanics or dentists. Market forces will take over. >> >You old hippie you. >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >So why did you say that? Paper credentials are bought and sold even on e-bay. In most cases, they are not checked by anybody, IOW, they are not vetted. >> >> Bunch of harlots many of you -are-. I've seen you rape old people of >> >> their Life Savings every day, claiming if you don't do this, if you [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >on it and I didn't break it and I don't control the prices that >the parts department charges. If you do what you say you're going to do, then you deserve to be paid for your work. If you just pretend ( and how is the customer supposed to know the difference? ) to have done work you charge for but didn't perform, you belong in jail. "you" being used in the generic sense here. >> >> Most of ya belong in the fuckin' callaboose. With the bars welded >> >> SHUT! [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Uh-huh... OK, you've never spent hours waiting to see a doctor? You've never spent hours in a dealership service shop waiting room? Of course not, because you have your own shop. >> I tell them why I am there. Sometimes you are in the room for hours >> so you have to say _something_. Naturally, the "car" issue comes up. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >Yet these victims keep returning, allowing that crooked business >to remain in operation. Whose fault is that? The service provider's fault. Because they know grandma hasn't a clue what a hydraulic lifter is and if it does or doesn't need to be replaced. And they can just reach into a box and take a handful to granny and say "here are your old parts." >There is no uniform regulatory oversight for auto repair, the >laws and regulations simply do not exist outside of a few states. >That is not the auto repair professions fault, it is the fault of >the public at large. Your logic is because there isn't a law against stealing from little old ladies that it's OK to do it. bull. >Canada has their system in place, but I don't believe it has any >meaningful effect WRT what you are describing here. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >people in general -want- to be f.cked over? You seem to be >happiest when you're miserable. DC wanted a BLACK Mayor because DC inner city is comprised mostly of blacks. It is the SAME reason the guilty OJ Simpson got away with murder. He played the race card, and won. >> And you can multiply that by >> 10,000 everyDAY and you realize that the Car Repair Business is the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >fraudulently sought by the dentists were much, much higher than >what's involved when cutting belts and hoses. Two wrongs do not make a right. >In all fairness, Readers Digest also did an expose' article about >auto repair rip-offs, the number of unscrupulous mechanics was >much lower than that of dentists. Depends on where they took their samples. >I'm not making any of this up, you can probably still find the >back issues at your local library. > >The solution is to not patronize crooked mechanics or dentists. >Market forces will take over. The customer can't fight back if the customer is kept in the dark with deceptive practices. One solution to this is to get more people car-educated and car-savvy. But many people have a blind spot when it comes to technical things, and they trust the mechanic. This is handing over the hen house to the fox. Lg > >> I dunno > > > >So why did you say that? > > Paper credentials are bought and sold even on e-bay. In most cases, > they are not checked by anybody, IOW, they are not vetted. Okay, but other than you bringing it up, I don't see what SAE has to do with anything. I don't understand why you dragged it into the conversation. > >I know I'm right. > >Yes Lawrence, I charge for what I do, but I didn't design it, I [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > perform, you belong in jail. "you" being used in the generic sense > here. The customer knows because the problem that they brought the vehicle in for service for is resolved. SES light on. SES light off. Brakes grind. Brakes don't grind. Window won't go down when the button is pushed. Window does go down when the button is pushed. Steering wheel shakes at 65 mph. Steering wheel doesn't shake at 65 mph. Failed emissions test. Here's your VIR ma'am, we got it to pass. > >Uh-huh... > > OK, you've never spent hours waiting to see a doctor? Nope, they know better than to keep their mechanic waiting. > You've never > spent hours in a dealership service shop waiting room? Of course not, > because you have your own shop. And you know what? There is no waiting room. > >Yet these victims keep returning, allowing that crooked business > >to remain in operation. Whose fault is that? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > into a box and take a handful to granny and say "here are your old > parts." Sounds to me like grandma is too lazy to get a second opinion. Do you ever eat at McDonalds or Taco Bell? > >There is no uniform regulatory oversight for auto repair, the > >laws and regulations simply do not exist outside of a few states. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Your logic is because there isn't a law against stealing from little > old ladies that it's OK to do it. bull. Actually, there ARE laws against stealing from little old ladies. But if little old ladies can't be bothered to become informed consumers, they will become prey to those with less or no scruples, it isn't exclusive to the auto repair trade. > >Marion Berry was re-elected as mayor of Washington DC AFTER he > >was convicted of dealing crack cocaine. Is it possible that [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > DC wanted a BLACK Mayor because DC inner city is comprised mostly of > blacks. And he turned out to be the only black lawyer they could find in the vicinity? Bullshit. Stupidity and sloth. Ignorance and apathy. > It is the SAME reason the guilty OJ Simpson got away with > murder. He played the race card, and won. He won because the police and the prosecutor screwed the pooch, and because the presiding judge was a moron. > >A few years ago, Readers Digest did an article exposing the > >dentistry profession, same thing as what you're claiming about [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Two wrongs do not make a right. I'm not claiming that they do, I'm pointing out that what you claim and complain about is a problem in other professions, professions which swear to a code of ethics. > >In all fairness, Readers Digest also did an expose' article about > >auto repair rip-offs, the number of unscrupulous mechanics was > >much lower than that of dentists. > > Depends on where they took their samples. The samples were taken at random across the country in both instances. > >I'm not making any of this up, you can probably still find the > >back issues at your local library. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > The customer can't fight back if the customer is kept in the dark with > deceptive practices. If you have TV stations exposing these shops to be rip off artists, the customers aren't being kept in the dark, are they? Fact is; people shop by price and /or fall for some slogan or jingle. Ever get a good Pizza? Ever get a bad Pizza? > One solution to this is to get more people car-educated and car-savvy. Only if they want to be. Problem is, it interferes with their bowling, their poker game, the newest episode of "Who wants to give a millionaire a bl.wj.b," sitting their fat a.s on a bar stool, Justin's soccer practice, Britney's ballet lessons, and mommys appointment with her therapist. > But many people have a blind spot when it comes to technical things, > and they trust the mechanic. People ignore problems until they snowball into catastrophic failures and then blame the repair shop for their own negligence. > This is handing over the hen house to > the fox. When is it not that way? Pick anything, anything at all. >> >> I dunno >> > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >to do with anything. I don't understand why you dragged it into >the conversation. I brought it up, because many *professions* require certain proofs of competence before hiring an employee. It seems that the car repair business isn't one of them. Even a Cosmetician requires a State License to practice cutting human hair, but a car mechanic? Naw... >> >I know I'm right. >> >Yes Lawrence, I charge for what I do, but I didn't design it, I [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > >Nope, they know better than to keep their mechanic waiting. Touche >> You've never >> spent hours in a dealership service shop waiting room? Of course not, >> because you have your own shop. > >And you know what? There is no waiting room. You must be fast. Even Jiffy Lube has a waiting room. Even my local car wash has one. >> >Yet these victims keep returning, allowing that crooked business >> >to remain in operation. Whose fault is that? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Sounds to me like grandma is too lazy to get a second opinion. >Do you ever eat at McDonalds or Taco Bell? Not if I can help it I don't. >> >There is no uniform regulatory oversight for auto repair, the >> >laws and regulations simply do not exist outside of a few states. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >consumers, they will become prey to those with less or no >scruples, it isn't exclusive to the auto repair trade. There is no way, any customer is let onto the service shop floor because of liability issues. So the customer is in the dark when it comes to what was or wasn't done to the vehicle. They have to take the word of the Service Manager, and/or the "mechanic." >> >Marion Berry was re-elected as mayor of Washington DC AFTER he >> >was convicted of dealing crack cocaine. Is it possible that [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >Bullshit. >Stupidity and sloth. Ignorance and apathy. Well, now that you mention it..... >> It is the SAME reason the guilty OJ Simpson got away with >> murder. He played the race card, and won. > >He won because the police and the prosecutor screwed the pooch, >and because the presiding judge was a moron. He won because the prosecutors were IDIOTS! They never worked on the shoeprint left at the crime scene The 300 car police chase where OJ held a gun to his head The 10,000 dollars in cash and disguise he had for his getaway And a lot of other stuff, like the knife he bought at a pawn shop for the killings. They could have put the shop owner on the stand and asked him if the defendent was the person he sold the knife to. They REALLY screwed up, bigtime. >> >A few years ago, Readers Digest did an article exposing the >> >dentistry profession, same thing as what you're claiming about [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >claim and complain about is a problem in other professions, >professions which swear to a code of ethics. A lot of bad things going on in the world of cosmetic surgery also, but this isn't a cosmetic surgery n/g so we're not talking about that issue here. This is an auto n/g so we talk about cars here. >> >In all fairness, Readers Digest also did an expose' article about >> >auto repair rip-offs, the number of unscrupulous mechanics was [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >The samples were taken at random across the country in both >instances. OK if you say so. >> >I'm not making any of this up, you can probably still find the >> >back issues at your local library. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >jingle. >Ever get a good Pizza? Ever get a bad Pizza? Yah! Don't remind me of the bad one. I was sick for days. >> One solution to this is to get more people car-educated and car-savvy. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >stool, Justin's soccer practice, Britney's ballet lessons, and >mommys appointment with her therapist. Well they ought to teach this *stuff* in school then. I don't mean they have to take a whole car apart and put it back together again, just a general awareness type program, as part of "Driver Education" Not just how to maneuver the vehicle in traffic. >> But many people have a blind spot when it comes to technical things, >> and they trust the mechanic. > >People ignore problems until they snowball into catastrophic >failures and then blame the repair shop for their own negligence. This could be. >> This is handing over the hen house to >> the fox. > >When is it not that way? >Pick anything, anything at all. You have a point. It is the consumer's responsibility Up to a Point, to be as informed about what is going on as is possible. I can't argue with you aarcuda, you always win in the end. Lg > >Okay, but other than you bringing it up, I don't see what SAE has > >to do with anything. I don't understand why you dragged it into > >the conversation. > > I brought it up, because many *professions* require certain proofs of > competence before hiring an employee. That has nothing to do with SAE. > It seems that the car repair business isn't one of them. Yup. Strange, isn't it? > Even a Cosmetician requires a State License to practice cutting human > hair, but a car mechanic? Naw... But does anything ever improve when the gummint institutes another bureaucracy? Nope, but it adds costs and confusion. Want proof, check out California's emissions testing program, it's an absolute cluster f.ck. > >> OK, you've never spent hours waiting to see a doctor? > > > >Nope, they know better than to keep their mechanic waiting. > > Touche Thank you! > >> You've never > >> spent hours in a dealership service shop waiting room? Of course not, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > You must be fast. Actually, I'm pretty slow. Both of my legs were smashed in a head on collision with a drunk driver 4 1/2 years ago, I'm not as nimble as I used to be. I discourage customers waiting, I will happily supply them with a ride to home or work and pick them up if they so choose. > Even Jiffy Lube has a waiting room. Even my local > car wash has one. Of which I'm neither one, but your mention of Jiffy Lube is an excellent example of why people have monumental problems with their vehicles. > >> >Yet these victims keep returning, allowing that crooked business > >> >to remain in operation. Whose fault is that? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Not if I can help it I don't. I'll bet it's because the food is crap. I too do not patronize such establishments, and you know what, I have very few things to complain about when I dine out as a result. I don't need to be a nutritionist or a gourmet chef to make that sort of informed decision about my diet, prior experience and word of mouth have been sufficient for me to make a choice as an informed consumer. Do you see what I'm getting at here? > >Actually, there ARE laws against stealing from little old ladies. > >But if little old ladies can't be bothered to become informed [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > comes to what was or wasn't done to the vehicle. They have to take > the word of the Service Manager, and/or the "mechanic." Well, that's one of the excuses that might be used, but the real truth is that you can't get 'em to stay the hell out from under foot and you can't get them to shut up so that full concentration can be devoted to the job. I have a very nicely padded stool adjacent to my work area, I offer it to anyone who feels compelled to stay while I work on their car, no one sits in it, they DO stand in the way, hover over my shoulder and babble endlessly however. IOWs they make it damn near impossible to do anything. > >And he turned out to be the only black lawyer they could find in > >the vicinity? > >Bullshit. > >Stupidity and sloth. Ignorance and apathy. > > Well, now that you mention it..... Yeah, it's not just for breakfast anymore! > >> It is the SAME reason the guilty OJ Simpson got away with > >> murder. He played the race card, and won. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > He won because the prosecutors were IDIOTS! I already said that. > They never worked on the shoeprint left at the crime scene Ditto. > The 300 car police chase where OJ held a gun to his head Media circus. Until another OJ comes along to Chicago, your TV station is settling for auto repair shops as filler. > The 10,000 dollars in cash and disguise he had for his getaway > And a lot of other stuff, like the knife he bought at a pawn shop for > the killings. They could have put the shop owner on the stand and > asked him if the defendent was the person he sold the knife to. > > They REALLY screwed up, bigtime. Yup. > >I'm not claiming that they do, I'm pointing out that what you > >claim and complain about is a problem in other professions, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > but this isn't a cosmetic surgery n/g so we're not talking about that > issue here. This is an auto n/g so we talk about cars here. Yeah, but you've lost direction and are preaching to the choir. > >The samples were taken at random across the country in both > >instances. > > OK if you say so. Like I said, it's published and verifiable. > >If you have TV stations exposing these shops to be rip off > >artists, the customers aren't being kept in the dark, are they? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Yah! Don't remind me of the bad one. I was sick for days. You didn't go back for another, did you? Did any TV stations do a spot on the Pizza joint that made you sick? And I take it that you've managed to find a good Pizza joint also? How did you find that? > >Only if they want to be. Problem is, it interferes with their > >bowling, their poker game, the newest episode of "Who wants to [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > they have to take a whole car apart and put it back together again, > just a general awareness type program, as part of "Driver Education" They do teach it in the high schools up here, although I don't believe that it's a required subject. The thing is, the auto shop programs in the local schools are not the darling of the school system so they have to fight tooth and nail for any funding. One car club I belong to and am an officer of donates $1500 each year on a rotating basis to four high school auto vo-tech programs in this county, the instructors get to choose for themselves how to spend the money, sometimes they can get a tool vendor to kick in some matching funds. Now, how many who complain about the industry are willing to put forth the effort it takes to organize and promote a car show on a weekend, stand toe to toe with me drumming up sponsors, walk the highway we sponsor for adopt-a-highway picking up trash on a weeknight, put up the tents, take 'em down, make the trophys , give up time to sit on educational steering committees, do "In Service" days. Auto repair is just like the weather, every one complains about it, but no one wants to do anything about it. > Not just how to maneuver the vehicle in traffic. The more people know, the better I like it. I have many customers who are engineers and such who are technically savvy, but don't have the time or place to do their own work. They usually are the easiest to work with because they have a realistic understanding of what is all involved. > >> But many people have a blind spot when it comes to technical things, > >> and they trust the mechanic. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > This could be. I've been following something for a few days in a different forum, the vehicle is a mid 90s Chevy Blazer, the engine is seized up, upon inspection it is discovered that there is a massive amount of gelatinized motor oil contaminating the inside of the engine blocking among other things, the oil pick-up tube, it is known that the vehicle had recently been to a quick lube where it received an "engine oil flush" and an oil change, it was discovered upon tear down that the intake manifold gaskets have failed and are allowing coolant to leak into the oiling system, he combination of coolant and motor oil being the source/cause of the gelling. The intake gasket failures are a known problem, but evidently, not known to the quick lube places, the vehicle had received regular, routine, timely maintenance, but the coolant usage was not recognized as a problem by the quick lube and was dealt with by topping off the coolant reservoir, thusly, the problem went on, unknown to the vehicle owner until there was total catastrophic failure. It didn't have to go down that way, but since the motorist chose fast food for convenience, that's what happened. Of course the quick lube place denies any wrong doing even though they did the oil changes prior to the failure. Had they had a little common sense, they would have noted and advised the motorist of the coolant usage and when they re-filled the crank case, they should have realized there was a problem when the dip stick showed a gross over full condition. But what can one reasonably expect from a fast food joint? > >> This is handing over the hen house to > >> the fox. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > It is the consumer's responsibility Up to a Point, to be as informed > about what is going on as is possible. Yes it is, the task is to get them up to that point. > I can't argue with you aarcuda, you always win in the end. >> >Okay, but other than you bringing it up, I don't see what SAE has >> >to do with anything. I don't understand why you dragged it into [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Yup. Strange, isn't it? Very much so. Considering that there are 40,000 preventable highway deaths on the road each year that go un-noticed. If we were losing 40,000 troops/year in Iraq, Bush would be hanging by a rope in front of the White House by now. >> Even a Cosmetician requires a State License to practice cutting human >> hair, but a car mechanic? Naw... [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Want proof, check out California's emissions testing program, >it's an absolute cluster f.ck. I think everything about that State stands as a warning to the rest of the world what can happen if you turn left at a road that bends to the right. >> >> OK, you've never spent hours waiting to see a doctor? >> > [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > >I'll bet it's because the food is crap. Crap I can eat. That stuff is another story. Everytime I see one I can't help but imagine some disgruntled employee spit into the mayonnaise. >I too do not patronize such establishments, and you know what, I >have very few things to complain about when I dine out as a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >a choice as an informed consumer. >Do you see what I'm getting at here? No, because most car shops are not franchises, and even if they are they are independently owned, and you can't even compare one chain against another under those conditions. >> >Actually, there ARE laws against stealing from little old ladies. >> >But if little old ladies can't be bothered to become informed [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >over my shoulder and babble endlessly however. IOWs they make it >damn near impossible to do anything. Yes, at some point it becomes a nuisance, but I've found it nice to have somebody around when I was fixing stuff back in the old days. Somebody to chat with to take away the drudgery of the job. >> >And he turned out to be the only black lawyer they could find in >> >the vicinity? [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > >Yeah, but you've lost direction and are preaching to the choir. I've lost my direction.... I've been thinking about that lately. I'm not quite as clueless as Shoeless Bob from Hannibal MO wants me to believe, and not quite the Master Mechanic my alter ego thinks it is. I'm somewhere in between. >> >The samples were taken at random across the country in both >> >instances. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >You didn't go back for another, did you? Did any TV stations do >a spot on the Pizza joint that made you sick? I was too sick to leave the house, and was highly pissed that they poisoned me. But too sick to do anything about it. I never went back. >And I take it that you've managed to find a good Pizza joint also? >How did you find that? Went with a place that's been in town forever and has a reputation for good food at a fair price. >> >Only if they want to be. Problem is, it interferes with their >> >bowling, their poker game, the newest episode of "Who wants to [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >school system so they have to fight tooth and nail for any >funding. Well then, that begs the question, what IS the darling of your school systems "up there"? What is more important than learning about something you are going to be _depending_ on for the rest of your Life? >One car club I belong to and am an officer of donates $1500 each >year on a rotating basis to four high school auto vo-tech [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >Auto repair is just like the weather, every one complains about >it, but no one wants to do anything about it. I've come to this avocation too late in Life to do anything productive about the situation, but I would promote "train one, teach one" >> Not just how to maneuver the vehicle in traffic. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >own work. They usually are the easiest to work with because they >have a realistic understanding of what is all involved. So do I, after having reached down into the dark pit of horrors under the hoods on many occassions. Otoh, some folks have money to burn, and will pay other people to do everything for them, including mowing their lawns and tending their gardens. I'm not in that category, so I am forced by financial circumstances to do as much of the work as I -can- by myself. So my motivation is to keep a reliable automobile on the premesis, at a cost I can live with. That means doing all the work myself, short of changing out a transmission or crankshaft. >> >> But many people have a blind spot when it comes to technical things, >> >> and they trust the mechanic. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >it is known that the vehicle had recently been to a quick lube >where it received an "engine oil flush" and an oil change, no doubt by idiots who haven't a clue as to how to inflate a tire. > it was >discovered upon tear down that the intake manifold gaskets have [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >not recognized as a problem by the quick lube and was dealt with >by topping off the coolant reservoir no doubt by idiots who haven't a clue as to how to inflate a tire. >, thusly, the problem went >on, unknown to the vehicle owner until there was total >catastrophic failure. It didn't have to go down that way, but >since the motorist chose fast food for convenience, that's what >happened. I can't bring myself to trust a group of pimple-faced drooling idiots with my only means of transportation. > Of course the quick lube place denies any wrong doing >even though they did the oil changes prior to the failure. >Had they had a little common sense, they would have noted and >advised the motorist of the coolant usage and when they re-filled >the crank case, they should have realized there was a problem >when the dip stick showed a gross over full condition. Say, that is EXACTLY what the robots do at Jiffy Lube. The pull the dipstick to see where the oil level is. I've watched them, so I -know- this particular shop does that. If it was overfilled, a manager would have been called in no doubt, or junior in the underbay would have drained down some oil. Either way, a Red Flag should have gone up. >But what can one reasonably expect from a fast food joint? That they become -experts- at what they do, because that is ALL they do. >> >> This is handing over the hen house to >> >> the fox. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Yes it is, the task is to get them up to that point. I get back to the central issue: What is more important than learning about something you are going to be _depending_ on for the rest of your Life? Is The Rise & Fall of the Roman Empire going to enhance your real Life? Is knowing about Greek Mythology going to give you a boost in the workplace and home? The trouble with academia is that it IS academia, far far disconnected from the Real World where people are going to have to live when they leave their Ivy Walled Fortress. Book smart but street stupid. My doctor relative falls into this category. He has been a car enthusiast all his life, but lift up a hood and I bet he can't show me where his IAC valve is. He doesn't NEED to. He pays other people to know that stuff, he just drives his SUV, and whatever it costs he pays. Me, I have to know something about this to SURVIVE in the flesh and blood. I take it a little more seriously than he does. Lg > Actually, I'm pretty slow. Both of my legs were smashed in a > head on collision with a drunk driver 4 1/2 years ago, I'm not as > nimble as I used to be. I discourage customers waiting, I will > happily supply them with a ride to home or work and pick them up > if they so choose. I'm very sorry to hear this. You do have quite a tempered manner about you in this newsgroup, considering what/who you decide to deal with. Perhaps that from your tragedy you have managed to see all of the good around you in a new light. Well, thanks for being a quality contributor here and for setting me straight as well, Toyota MDT in MO >> Actually, I'm pretty slow. Both of my legs were smashed in a >> head on collision with a drunk driver 4 1/2 years ago, I'm not as [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Toyota MDT in MO I'll second that. aarcuda gets my vote. Lg In article <1108043104.528806.242660@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, > I'm very sorry to hear this. Thank you. I'm still amazed at how ones life can be changed in a split second. My wide and I would be dead if it wasn't for seat belts. > You do have quite a tempered manner about > you in this newsgroup, considering what/who you decide to deal with. Oh, I dunno, I get rather assholeish at times. > Perhaps that from your tragedy you have managed to see all of the good > around you in a new light. I tell people that a shitty day at work still beats a good day in a wheel chair hands down, and that's from having to use one for only 5 months. > Well, thanks for being a quality > contributor here and for setting me straight as well, Thanks again. Heath Sorry about all the attention to your problem without any real answers. I see you've decided to put an aftermarket temp gauge in it. They are cheap and easy to install. If you want the fuel gauge to work you'd be wise to spend the $200. But for what it's worth, if both gauges started acting up at the same time Nates idea of a used instrument cluster is probably a good one. If they quit working at different times you likely have two different problems. If you have specific questions feel free to ask but without hands on testing I can't tell you for sure what's wrong. Personally I'd start saving for a different car if yours really does needs an engine. Good luck. Bob > Hi, > I have a Geo Metro (1992, 2 door, 3 cylinder) and the fuel and [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Sincerely, > Heath |
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