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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / May 2005

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why doesn't low oil *level* activate the idiot light?

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Ted Johnson - 19 Apr 2005 20:28 GMT
I think we all agree that:
 o low oil *pressure* is bad, and...
 o low oil *level* is bad

----
So... why is it that (on most cars), the idiot light doesn't measure
both of these?

Ie, why is it that case that (in most cars) the "Oil!" idiot light
only light up when oil *pressure* is low?

Just curious.

Thanks in advance.
-Ted
N8N - 19 Apr 2005 20:32 GMT
> I think we all agree that:
>   o low oil *pressure* is bad, and...
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> Thanks in advance.
> -Ted

It would require a separate sending unit, and oil level is hard to
gauge when the engine is running and/or the car is moving.  That said
some mfgrs. like Porsche actually do have a low oil level warning that
reads the oil level when the key is first turned on.

nate
Thomas Tornblom - 19 Apr 2005 21:00 GMT
> > I think we all agree that:
> >   o low oil *pressure* is bad, and...
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> some mfgrs. like Porsche actually do have a low oil level warning that
> reads the oil level when the key is first turned on.

Porsche use dry sump lubrication, or at least used to. They have the
oil in a separate reservoir which is pretty simple to add a level
sender to.

> nate

Thomas
N8N - 19 Apr 2005 22:10 GMT
> > > I think we all agree that:
> > >   o low oil *pressure* is bad, and...
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> oil in a separate reservoir which is pretty simple to add a level
> sender to.

The 911 series did, sure, but even my 944 has the oil level light that
works like that and it is a wet sump motor.  Of course I still check it
every other fillup because Porsche engine bits are expensive.

nate
Huw - 20 Apr 2005 22:21 GMT
>> > I think we all agree that:
>> >   o low oil *pressure* is bad, and...
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> oil in a separate reservoir which is pretty simple to add a level
> sender to.

Modern Mercedes have both low and high oil level warnings, both audible and
visible at the dash information strip in whichever language is appropriate.
Oil level is measured both statically and dynamically when the vehicle is in
motion. How they do it is a mystery to me, but it works and works well.
Other manufacturers with long service intervals have similar systems and
they all fail safe.

Huw
Shep - 19 Apr 2005 21:30 GMT
So do all late model GM cars, have a low oil sensor in the oil pan, but
maybe we should check once and a while ourselves, too.

>> I think we all agree that:
>>   o low oil *pressure* is bad, and...
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> nate
sdlomi2 - 20 Apr 2005 18:57 GMT
> So do all late model GM cars, have a low oil sensor in the oil pan, but
> maybe we should check once and a while ourselves, too.

   This is an easy habit and a good one to develop.  Kinda like checking
tire air pressure 1st of each month--cheaper to ride on air than rubber!  s
Steve - 19 Apr 2005 21:37 GMT
> I think we all agree that:
>   o low oil *pressure* is bad, and...
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Ie, why is it that case that (in most cars) the "Oil!" idiot light
> only light up when oil *pressure* is low?

Because the dipstick tells you when the LEVEL is low, and anyway an
engine won't be damaged by low oil level until the low level causes the
pressure to be low also- plenty of time to find it with the dipstick
first. The light is to tell you when there's a mechanical problem that
is preventing normal oil pressure, which is almost immediately fatal to
the engine.
Frank - 19 Apr 2005 21:48 GMT
My '86 FJ1200 did have a low level light.  It would sometimes flash
under hard acceleration or when taking off uphill, but once a person
realized that it was no problem.  I never saw it otherwise because I
never let it get low.
lugnut - 19 Apr 2005 22:50 GMT
>I think we all agree that:
>  o low oil *pressure* is bad, and...
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>Thanks in advance.
>-Ted

Visually checking the oil with the dipstick provides an
opportunity to observe other matters that may require
attention.  Many vehicles would never have the hood opened
for inspection if you installed enough warnings.  In an
engine in decent condition, the oil comsumption is low
enough that it does not require frequent visual inspection
of the oil level beyond every couple of tanks of fuel.  In
the ancient history of the automobile, we had what was
called a pump jockey or other not-so-nice things who was
eager to get under your hood to check it for you when you
filled up with gas.  He became virtually extinct due to the
reduced need for frequent inspection and the self-serve
station so most drivers could ignore the engine pretty much
altogether.
Don Bruder - 19 Apr 2005 23:14 GMT
> I think we all agree that:
>   o low oil *pressure* is bad, and...
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> Thanks in advance.
> -Ted

Why do I smell th distinct aroma of troll?

But what the heck... I'll play along - I'm bored at the moment.

Because as long as the sump has enough oil in it to be picked up by the
oil pump, the pressure will stay where it needs to be under most
conditions. Sharp cornering, up/downhill, or quick
acceleration/deceleration might be enough to slosh things around and
leave the oil pump sucking air instead of oil, so most engines have the
capacity to hold more than what is strictly needed to maintain pressure.
Until the level is low enough taht the pump can't pick it up, low (but
not so low the oil pump can't pick it up) oil level is a non-issue for
any engine but a "splasher". (And the only place I know where those can
be found is on lawnmowers and similar gear. No automotive engine that I
know of uses splash oiling)

Besides - There's a special device on the engine designed specifically
for monitoring oil level. It's commonly known as a "dipstick".

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« Paul » - 20 Apr 2005 00:43 GMT
> I think we all agree that:
>   o low oil *pressure* is bad, and...
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> Thanks in advance.
> -Ted

Most American cars have had both for many years.
Steve B. - 20 Apr 2005 03:41 GMT
>I think we all agree that:
>  o low oil *pressure* is bad, and...
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>Thanks in advance.
>-Ted

Probably becuse adding it would cost another .50 and every penny saved
is a penny earned.  

            Steve B.
Thomas & Sons Cycle Shop - 14 May 2005 10:05 GMT
>I think we all agree that:
>  o low oil *pressure* is bad, and...
>  o low oil *level* is bad
>So... why is it that (on most cars), the idiot light doesn't measure
>both of these?

BMWs have multiple sensors, one for oil pressure, others for oil fill level.

See
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.
php?t=80837&highlight=yellow+oil+light

They even have the oil brand to use (BMW recommends Castrol) embossed on the
oil filler cap so you can't make any mistakes (after breakin, use synthetic
oil only & replace every 3000 miles or sooner depending on your driving
habits and environmental conditions).
 
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