Safe Operating Temperature

Safe Operating Temperature - 427 Side-Oiler

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Willis - 31 May 2005 21:06 GMT

I have an overheating problem in my '63 Galaxie, 427 Sideoiler (no AC)
bored .030 over to a 454 - seems to be heating up bigtime when I'm not
moving. Last time it scared me I had been driving with temps around
195. I stopped to go to the ATM and when I came back the car was
pushing 215. That's a 20 degree jump in less than 5 minutes. Scary
stuff.

This weekend I changed out the thermostat (put a new 160 in), did a
cheapo Zerek radiator flush, and added new coolant w/ water wetter.

Started up the car, heated up til' 160, leveled off, then started
slowly bumping up the temperature. I got nervous at 215 and turned it
off.

As far as a I know the heater core is working. There is no fan shroud.
Fan sits about 3 inches back from the radiator. Radiator looks like a
rebuilt original (car was a 289 car originally) - I looked inside
during the flush and it's a 3-row, and there was minimal corrosion. It
DOES, however, look small next to that 427.

What's a safe operating range for an engine of that size?

Any other suggestions as to what the problem might be? Oil? Other?
If it's the water pump, how can I know if it's failed? Best case
scenario is that I'd like to get the problem fixed so driving in 90
degree weather isn't a problem...it gets hot & humid here haha.

Also can anyone suggest a good shop in the Baltimore area where I can
get this looked at, if it gets out of hand?

Thanks!

Jason

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Anumber1 - 31 May 2005 21:34 GMT

> I have an overheating problem in my '63 Galaxie, 427 Sideoiler (no AC)
> bored .030 over to a 454 - seems to be heating up bigtime when I'm not
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> Jason

You be a man in need of a larger radiator. (grin)
It sounds to me like your cooling capacity is insuficent. If it only acts
up at idle a fan shroud would help a lot.

Signature

Alan Gallacher
Born to Tinker!

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N8N - 31 May 2005 21:41 GMT

> > I have an overheating problem in my '63 Galaxie, 427 Sideoiler (no AC)
> > bored .030 over to a 454 - seems to be heating up bigtime when I'm not
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
> It sounds to me like your cooling capacity is insuficent. If it only acts
> up at idle a fan shroud would help a lot.

yeah, you need a fan shroud...

I'm in your area, I'll be happy to install it for you as long as I get
to thoroughly test drive it afterward <SEG>

nate

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Ad absurdum per aspera - 31 May 2005 22:05 GMT

I'm not an expert on the Galaxie but am pretty sure that by the early
60s, they and their similarly powered Ford stablemates were supposed to
have a sizable fan shroud, often adorned with a big sticker warning you
not to insert any body parts that you want back:

http://www.galaxieclub.com/internationalcarshow/members/2321/63engbaydetail/page
s/ecengbayrest030.html

Also, make sure the fan clutch, if fitted (probably so), is working
properly:
http://www.ifsja.org/tech/ac/fan_clutch.shtml

And don't forget the silly things: making sure all the hoses are
hooked up right, the radiator's pressure cap is in good shape, and
there's enough coolant of more or less the right proportions of water
and glycol.

Best of luck,
--Joe

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N8N - 02 Jun 2005 13:05 GMT

> I'm not an expert on the Galaxie but am pretty sure that by the early
> 60s, they and their similarly powered Ford stablemates were supposed to
> have a sizable fan shroud, often adorned with a big sticker warning you
> not to insert any body parts that you want back:
>
> http://www.galaxieclub.com/internationalcarshow/members/2321/63engbaydetail/page
s/ecengbayrest030.html

As an aside, that expansion tank looks EXACTLY like the one used on the
Studebaker Avantis... will have to file that away as a possible
interchange (might have to modify a little, but ya know...)

nate

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Willis - 14 Jun 2005 05:48 GMT

Could I be screwing myself over having a 160 thermostat in the car?
That was the previous thermo in the car, and the car was still
overheating. Should I go up in temp?

More detailed pictures of the radiator are now online here:

http://photos.yahoo.com/callmewillis

Thanks

Jason

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lugnut - 14 Jun 2005 11:09 GMT

>Could I be screwing myself over having a 160 thermostat in the car?
>That was the previous thermo in the car, and the car was still
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
>Jason

Jason,
You need to go to a 180/185/190 stat in that engine. It
should be able to cool with that. If an engine is
overheating, a cooler stat is rarely what you want. If it
is stable, even the 215 you saw is no problem if the pistons
and bearings are fitted for it. NASCAR engines run far
hotter than that. Overheated oil is a far bigger problem.

I looked at your photos. Your radiator should be "OK" if it
is in good condition and has not had any tubes plugged to
seal leaks. To start, you need a fan shroud. You should be
able to find one at places like Dearborn Classics or Auto
Krafters. Other sources can be found in Hemmings Motor
News. If you are going to fool around with an old car, you
should have a subscription to this. In the absence of a
shroud, you need to move the fan closer to the radiator with
a spacer. A more aggressive fan on a torque limiting
thermal clutch would also help. If you install a schroud,
you need to set it up so that the fan is 1/3 to 2/3's into
the shroud for best efficiency. The torque limiting clutch
will reduce the power requirement to drive it. An
aggressive fan can take a lot of power w/o a clutch. Even
with a good fan/shroud setup, your 427 may still be a
cooling problem as some were when new. It is possible to
add electric fans with thermal controls on the front side of
the radiator. You may need to upgrade your alternator if it
comes to this option.

Keep in mind that you want a stable operating temp whether
it be 160 or 200. You are much better off with a stable 200
temp than you are with an erratic 160. Lastly, your oil
needs to be hot to do it's job. A 160 stat may not keep the
oil hot enough to prevent sludge buildup and keep the
moisture boiled off. Excess moisture in the oil will result
in excess corrosion. Street driven cars of that vintage
always seemed to be happiest with a 180-190 stat in them if
the cooling system was up to par. Above that and the oil
didn't take it too well and detonation (spark knock) was a
problem. Vapor lock at high temps could also become a
problem especially with today's gasoline.

Good luck
Lugnut

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Anumber1 - 15 Jun 2005 18:25 GMT

Very well thought out post!

Signature

Alan Gallacher
Born to Tinker!

>>Could I be screwing myself over having a 160 thermostat in the car?
>>That was the previous thermo in the car, and the car was still
[quoted text clipped - 51 lines]
> Good luck
> Lugnut

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Shep - 31 May 2005 22:43 GMT

Not related here, but for correctness at a car show or the like, a .030 over
427 is right about 432 cu.in.

> I have an overheating problem in my '63 Galaxie, 427 Sideoiler (no AC)
> bored .030 over to a 454 - seems to be heating up bigtime when I'm not
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> Jason

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Steve - 31 May 2005 23:21 GMT

> As far as a I know the heater core is working. There is no fan shroud.
> Fan sits about 3 inches back from the radiator.

Theres the big problem. You NEED a fan shroud. Big-blocks are rarely
happy sitting in traffic without a fan shroud. I can't stress enough
what a HUGE difference a shroud makes.

Radiator looks like a

> rebuilt original (car was a 289 car originally) - I looked inside
> during the flush and it's a 3-row, and there was minimal corrosion. It
> DOES, however, look small next to that 427.
>
> What's a safe operating range for an engine of that size?

Mechanical damage isn't going to start until the coolant temps hit
230-240 degrees and stay there, but a happy big-block should run right
where the thermostat opens. It shouldn't creep up a whole lot, either in
traffic/idling (an air-flow problem) or at highway speeds (a restricted
coolant flow problem.

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Steve B. - 01 Jun 2005 01:41 GMT

>I have an overheating problem in my '63 Galaxie, 427 Sideoiler (no AC)
>bored .030 over to a 454 - seems to be heating up bigtime when I'm not
>moving. Last time it scared me I had been driving with temps around
>195. I stopped to go to the ATM and when I came back the car was
>pushing 215. That's a 20 degree jump in less than 5 minutes. Scary
>stuff.

215 isn't horrible. If it gets to 230 then you need to speed up the
engine to cool it or shut down. How's your idle speed? If it is
very low it could slow the waterflow to the point of overheating.

First try turning the heater on high to see if the temp drops any. If
it does then you know the water pump is ok and the flow is good but
the radiator isn't doing the job.

Does the fan have a clutch? If the fan is clutched it should have a
shroud. Usually the shroud came on a factory A/C car but even if you
didn't have one from the factotry it would be a great benefit.
Hypothetically you don't want a shroud and a fixed fan though. With a
shroud all the air has to go by the fan. With a clutched fan the air
can spin the fan at high speeds to get by but if the fan is fixed it
can hinder the air flow and cause high speed overheating issues.

Good luck. Got any pictures of your car on the net?

Steve B.

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Steve W. - 02 Jun 2005 02:57 GMT

> I have an overheating problem in my '63 Galaxie, 427 Sideoiler (no AC)
> bored .030 over to a 454 - seems to be heating up bigtime when I'm not
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> Jason

No good airflow----
First buy a big block radiator. probably 4 row or bigger. Then make or
find the proper shroud. Without it that fan may as well be gone.

As long as your running good oil and are seeing good oil pressure it
isn't a factor.

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Ted Mittelstaedt - 02 Jun 2005 08:39 GMT

> I have an overheating problem in my '63 Galaxie, 427 Sideoiler (no AC)
> bored .030 over to a 454 - seems to be heating up bigtime when I'm not
> moving. Last time it scared me I had been driving with temps around
> 195. I stopped to go to the ATM and when I came back the car was
> pushing 215. That's a 20 degree jump in less than 5 minutes. Scary
> stuff.

I have a 68 Torino with a 302 in it. The factory radiator isn't really even
good enough for the 302. At idle, with a fixed blade fan, the car will
overheat if left idling too long.

Remove the engine-mounted fan from the water pump and mount an
electric fan behind the radiator. There should be enough room with the fan
gone.
See here:

http://www.hotrodair.com/pg19a.cfm

This will give you some horsepower since the engine mounted fan really
sucks.

Ted

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