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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / June 2005

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high beltline cars-fashion or structural

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patrick mitchel - 25 Jun 2005 19:53 GMT
Cars like the dodge magnum, chrysler 300, charger, do they have a  rear
visiblity problem? Seems like the rear side glass get to be pretty small. Is
this purely a aesthetic feature or is there a structural reason for it.
Could make the body torsionally stiffer. Seems to be fashionable right now.
Just curious.   Pat
Daniel J. Stern - 25 Jun 2005 20:20 GMT
> Cars like the dodge magnum, chrysler 300, charger, do they have a  rear
> visiblity problem?

All cars with high and/or upswept beltlines have some degree of
rear-visibility deficit, but reports are that the seating position in the
ones you mention is such that the problem is minimised.

> this purely an aesthetic feature

Yes. It's a styling fad.
Ad absurdum per aspera - 27 Jun 2005 16:39 GMT
>> this purely an aesthetic feature
> Yes. It's a styling fad.

My guess is that the designers were channeling (no pun intended, and
not much of one achieved) one of the classic hotrod looks:  a "chopped"
roofline.

The surprising thing about that family of Chryslers, to me, is that
they're no worse than about midpack among large sedans when it comes to
headroom.

> reports are that the seating position in the ones you
> mention is such that the problem is minimised.

Reviewers differ on vision to the rear -- I suspect that driver height
(seldom reported in reviews) and preferred seat position have a lot to
do with this.  The Magnum, with its sloping roofline and a rear window
effect that one reviewer likened to a mail slot,  seems to get
criticized a lot more than the 300C in this regard.   At least nobody
will mistake it for a minivan.

My highway experience with the Hemi versions is that the sightline
problems, real or illusory, don't seem to dissuade their owners from
passing me.

I guess what the original poster will really have to do is saddle up
and go for a ride -- again, how much you can see in which directions is
probably a pretty personal thing.  Iterate with the various drivers in
the family.

--Joe
Steve - 27 Jun 2005 21:52 GMT
>>Cars like the dodge magnum, chrysler 300, charger, do they have a  rear
>>visiblity problem?
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Yes. It's a styling fad.

And I'd add that when I had a Magnum rental car, I was surprised at how
good the rear visibility was, given how small the windows are. They're
small, but they're well-placed. My wife's 93 Vision TSi has the opposite
styling disease (huge glass area / beltline that sweeps up toward the
trunk), but rearward visibility isn't really any better because of the
high trunk.
HLS@nospam.nix - 26 Jun 2005 17:43 GMT
> Cars like the dodge magnum, chrysler 300, charger, do they have a  rear
> visiblity problem? Seems like the rear side glass get to be pretty small. Is
> this purely a aesthetic feature or is there a structural reason for it.
> Could make the body torsionally stiffer. Seems to be fashionable right now.
> Just curious.   Pat

It is largely a styling fad that I hope soon passes.  Fat and fruity isnt
pretty to me.

When the engineers and designers get their heads together, they can come up
with cars with very good visibility that also look good.
do_not_spam_me@my-deja.com - 28 Jun 2005 07:49 GMT
> Is this purely a  aesthetic feature or is there a structural
> reason for it.  Could make the body torsionally stiffer.

Ugliness is always a fashionable at some time.  I don't know the reason
those particular cars are built that way, but an engineer at one of the
proving grounds said raising the beltline improved the side impact
protection.
Daniel J. Stern - 28 Jun 2005 16:48 GMT
> Ugliness is always a fashionable at some time.  I don't know the reason
> those particular cars are built that way, but an engineer at one of the
> proving grounds said raising the beltline improved the side impact
> protection.

Uh-huh. Because all those cars without super-high beltlines have such
cruddy side impact protection.
patrick mitchel - 28 Jun 2005 17:25 GMT
> > Ugliness is always a fashionable at some time.  I don't know the reason
> > those particular cars are built that way, but an engineer at one of the
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Uh-huh. Because all those cars without super-high beltlines have such
> cruddy side impact protection.

And what about the mega-mouth cars like the newer dodge/chryslers and the
audi- safety reason for those as well. Jeez, if the grill got any bigger
they could all be a ram pickup...Pat
John S. - 28 Jun 2005 14:13 GMT
It's a styling fad that also found favor about half a century ago.
Anyone seen pictures of the bathtub Nash, Hudson Hornet, Chevy, Buick,
Mercury, Lincolc, etc., cars that were popular in the late 1940's and
early 1950's?  They all featured the low top with tiny windows to peer
through and high body to crane a neck over. Hot rodders chopped and
channeled their wheels so the low look was a real craze.  And yes the
tiny windows narrowed the field of view and pillars obscured a lot but
they were stylish.
 
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