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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / July 2005

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Long, gloating, and by god I did it!!!

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Don Bruder - 05 Jul 2005 02:59 GMT
Changing a tire... Not "pull the flat off and put the spare on", I mean
"take the old tire off the rim and put a new one on."
The guys at the shop with their umpty-hundred (or more) dollar machines
make it look *SO* easy...

In something like 90 seconds, they've got the old one off the rim, the
new in its place, and there's that satisfying combination of "THUMP" and
"POP" as the beads seat and your nice new tire starts inflating.

Then you hand over the 10 dollar bill and roll your fresh tire to the
car. (or you let them put it on the car for you)

Betcha there ain't many these days that've thought about just how labor
intensive the task is without those fancy air or electric powered
machines.

Well, today I had to do a lot more than *THINK* about it... For the
first time, I had to actually *DO* it. And boy, was it an adventure!

After I got home from my run this morning and grabbed a bite to eat, I
went out to find that I had a tire with a separated belt that was going
to start "flapping" any time - I'm amazed that it hadn't already, truth
be told... I'm also amazed that it didn't affect the handling enough for
me to notice - The damage to the tire was massive. But all I actually
noticed was a tiny bit of "rumble" from the rear. Nothing that couldn't
easily be mistaken for normal on the recently chip-sealed road I was
driving on.

Of course, it's the 4th of July - So if there's a tire shop anywhere
within 50 miles that's open, I wasn't able to get them to pick up the
phone to confirm that they were.

That tire needed replacing *RIGHT NOW* - It simply CAN'T wait until
tomorrow - The car *MUST* be on the road tonight at 1 AM, and has to
cover 300+ miles. The donut just isn't going to cut the mustard, since
much of it is 50+ driving to make the deadlines. Never mind that the
roads the car has to travel vary from "Excellent" (Freeway) to  "decent"
(some feeder roads), to "shitty" (A couple of fairly ugly dirt roads),
to  "You gotta be joking, right? You're actually gonna drive across
THAT?!?!?" (A strip of road they call "Deadwood Avenue" that sports
craters you could nearly lose a volkswagen in, interspersed with rocks
you could practically hollow out and live inside.

So I *MUST* have a good, full-size, full-speed tire, and I *MUST* have
it before 11:00 tonight.

So what do I have to work with? Hmmm... OK, I've got a tire the right
size that was set aside to be used as a spare when I got a nice brand
new set a couple years ago - It's been sitting in the back of the garage
gathering dust ever since, but it looks to still be "healthy" enough -
No significant weather-checking, still nice and flexible, with no
observable stiffness anywhere, it's got tread - Not as much as a brand
new tire would have, of course, but this thing hasn't been anywhere near
brand new for years, but it isn't showing any wear bars yet, and it
looks to be in good enough shape to make it a few hundred miles, at a
minimum. And as a bonus, when it came off the car, it was holding air.

I've got a 3 foot crowbar, and I've got two pickle forks, and I've got a
4 pound copper hammer, and I've got a 20 gallon Sears air compressor.

And I've got most of the day free and clear...

Well, let's see... the theory is "break the beads, then start on one
side and drop it into the groove in the wheel to give some slack, then
lift the bead up and over the rim, repeat for the other side, and we've
got a naked rim laying there.

OK... Let's give it a shot - It can't be *THAT* hard, can it?

Famous last words, lemme tell ya!

After cussing the air in about a half-mile radius to a nice deep blue
color during the course of something like 45 minutes, I *FINALLY* got
one side off the rim.

Repeated the process, finding it even more awkward than the first due to
having to go "through" the first side to get to the other side (I
coaught myself before maing the mistake of putting each bead outside its
side of the rim... I think if I would have managed THAT blooper, I would
have had to give up out of sheer frustration...)

Got the second side off - It was more awkward, but having learned a
couple things from the first side, it actually went a good bit quicker -
Only took me about 20 minutes, and the air only turned a faint bluish
shade out to a hundred yards or so.

Then came reversing the process with the replacement tire - What fun...
NOT! The first side went on just fine... Maybe ten minutes of grunting,
sweating (did I mention that the temperature was/is hovering around 99F
today?) and struggling with it. Second side was a bit trickier - About
20 minutes 'cause I keept getting good progress, only to have "the other
end" of the "on" section decide to jump off as I got the "working" end
close to the halfway point. AUGH!!!!

Finally got the second side on, and took a breather before trying to get
it inflated. Knew I was looking at some "fun" there, so fired up the
compressor and made sure it was dialed up to max output, and let it fill
Once it was done, re-soaped the beads, and started trying to get 'em
seated. *NO FUN AT ALL*

They simply refused to get enough of a "bite" to seat. Hokay... How to
cope with this... If I can just get one side in place, I should be able
to "jiggle" the other and get it to work - I think...

Did just that - Used the end of the crowbar to reach inside and mash the
bead on the side away from the valve stem against the rim, slowly
working my way around the whole thing. Once that was in place, tried
applying air again. Still no joy... With the one side seated against the
rim, there was too much of a gap to get a seal on the valve-stem side,
and no amount of "wrestling" with it would close things up enough to pop
the bead into place. Fought with it for the better part of half an hour,
then had a brainstorm... Let's put the tire/rim combo on top of the tire
that I just took off, then stand on the rim with the air-chuck clipped
to the valve stem. That should mash the gap shut enough to get some
pressure inside to finish the job. Hmmm... Not *QUITE* working as
expected, but it's REAL close... What happens if I squat down and try to
"pick up" the tire while standing on the rim? Give it a try... Suddenly,
the whoosh of air blowing *THROUGH* turned into the blessed sound of air
going *IN* and actually staying there. Unclip the air-chuck and inspect
things - Excellent... Bead has made a "sort of" seal - The inner part is
in solid contact with the edge of the "well" in the wheel, forming
enough of a seal to hold air, even though the bead is at least 2 inches
from being where it belongs up against the seat. Apply more air. Bead
starts moving, then suddenly I hear that magical *POP*/*THUMP* as it
jumps into place, fully seated where it belongs! HOORAY!!!!!!!!!

Blow it up to about 20 pounds, dump some soapy water on both beads, and
see no bubbles forming - Bead is tight on both sides - YEAH, BABY!!!

Take a moment to do bit of "Who's yer daddy?!?!?" victory dance, then
blow it up to the full 30 pounds and bolt it back onto the car, with a
sense of accomplishment that rivals the time I succesfully swapped
engines in a '90-something Ford Explorer with only a handful of
photocopied Haynes manual pages to guide me!

Never had to "hand change" a tire before, although I've seen it done
once when a delivery truck caught a flat in our driveway. The guy who
came out and did the repair job had the semi-sized tire off the rim,
patched, back on the rim, and blown up in under half an hour - I was
*VERY* impressed. After taking something like three hours to do the task
myself on a "car-sized" tire, I'm even MORE impressed at the guy's
abilities. Of course, he *DID* have all the proper tire-spoons and such
to make life easier, but even so, I now know first-hand that it takes a
definite quantity of "grunt" to make it happen, as well as the proper
tools and knowledge of how to do it.

Maybe next time I'll get it done in under an hour...

Here's hoping that "next time" is a long, Long, *LONG*, ways off...

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Don Bruder - dakidd@sonic.net - New Email policy in effect as of Feb. 21, 2004.
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JazzMan - 05 Jul 2005 03:30 GMT
Trick to break the bead loose is to either run over it with
the car or put the base of the jack against the edge of the
bead and jack up against the car. Trick for getting tire
beads back up the slope to hold air is to wrap a ratcheting
tie-down around the tread and tighten the nuts out of it.
Alternatively you can use rope and a crow bar tournequet-
style.

Yep, tire changing machines are worth their weight in
gold when you need them.

JazzMan
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sdlomi2 - 05 Jul 2005 03:34 GMT
> Changing a tire... Not "pull the flat off and put the spare on", I mean
> "take the old tire off the rim and put a new one on."
[quoted text clipped - 145 lines]
>
> Here's hoping that "next time" is a long, Long, *LONG*, ways off...

   ...and to think that the Petty's, the Earnhardt's, and the Gordon's can
do 4 of 'em in 10 seconds...  Kinda "makes you wonder about your whole
life", huh?  CONGRATS!!!  s
Steve W. - 05 Jul 2005 03:56 GMT
> > Changing a tire... Not "pull the flat off and put the spare on", I mean
> > "take the old tire off the rim and put a new one on."
[quoted text clipped - 145 lines]
> >
> > Here's hoping that "next time" is a long, Long, *LONG*, ways off...

Do tires from semis to wheelbarrow sized all the time. About half get
done on the machine the rest I go to the persons place and do by hand.
Use a portable bead breaker (hand powered) and a couple GOOD flat nosed
tire irons. Wire brush the rim, pull the old weights, replace valve
stem, install new tire, inflate and rebalance with a portable bubble
balancer (check them twice with 1/2 rotation between checks). Usually
takes about 20 min. per tire unless they used some fix a flat crud or
sealant.
Keep in mind that the smaller the tire the harder they usually are to
change. Oh and a quick tip on seating the bead. get the tire mounted up.
Take the side with the smallest offset (FWD cars this would be the
outside of the rim) hold the tire/rim at an angle and force as much of
the bead onto the seat as possible (I use my foot and a block of wood or
an empty rim) Now GENTLY flip the tire/rim over and set it onto the
center of another tire (larger is better for this, I have a 22" that I
keep around just for this use) Now start adding air while gently pushing
the tire into the rim. Should pop out onto the seat really easy unless
the tire was stored laying flat or stacked.
Daniel J. Stern - 05 Jul 2005 15:51 GMT
>     ...and to think that the Petty's, the Earnhardt's, and the Gordon's
> can do 4 of 'em in 10 seconds...

Which you would know, being a NASCAR-watchin', lazily-267-line-quotin'
kind of guy.
sdlomi2 - 05 Jul 2005 20:34 GMT
>>     ...and to think that the Petty's, the Earnhardt's, and the Gordon's
>> can do 4 of 'em in 10 seconds...
>
> Which you would know, being a NASCAR-watchin', lazily-267-line-quotin'
> kind of guy.

   Hey, Dan.  I never surpassed the struggling-phase with that hand-breaker
and tire-irons at our fillin' station.  Yep, I'm amazed at how fast those
'Nascar-mechanics' get it done. (And to be totally honest, I'm still in awe
just watching the speed of PepBoys!)  HAPPY 4th-week!!!  s
Daniel J. Stern - 06 Jul 2005 03:49 GMT
> Yep, I'm amazed at how fast those 'Nascar-mechanics' get it done. (And
> to be totally honest, I'm still in awe just watching the speed of
> PepBoys!)  HAPPY 4th-week!!!  s

You missed my point, which was TRIM YOUR DAMN QUOTES!
Paul Hovnanian P.E. - 05 Jul 2005 03:59 GMT
How did you balance the new tire?

Signature

Paul Hovnanian     mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
Speed is n0 subsittute fo accurancy.

Don Bruder - 05 Jul 2005 04:11 GMT
> How did you balance the new tire?

Didn't, and ain't even gonna try - I simply don't have the equipment to
even make the attempt. Which means I'm gonna have to live with any
vibration for tonight. Tomorrow, I can hit the tire place and get that
done.

Besides... In an emergency situation like this, I plain don't give a
damn about making it "pretty", so long as it's functional enough to
achieve the intended goal - in this case "On the road with four round
tires".

Signature

Don Bruder - dakidd@sonic.net - New Email policy in effect as of Feb. 21, 2004.
Short form: I'm trashing EVERY E-mail that doesn't contain a password in the
subject unless it comes from a "whitelisted" (pre-approved by me) address.
See <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/main/contact.html> for full details.

Verdadero - 05 Jul 2005 05:17 GMT
what do you mean by "round"  Di you also try square tires?
Anumber1 - 05 Jul 2005 14:45 GMT
I have a manual 1950's vintage tire changing "machine" under my bench in my
shed.

I rescued it from a scrap yard next to my place of employment...$10,
complete with the bead separater, pry off spoon and bead roller!

It 'aint as easy to use as a newfangled air powered one but it is "always
open"! I have goten pretty good with it, I can change about 8 tires an hour
with it now...

As I was learning how to use it my father gave me some wise advice. He said
"Son, that tire is much stronger than you. Your going to have to outsmart
it".

He was right. every time I get frustrated and start to grunt and swear, I
step back, apply more dish soap (lubricant) and try another angle.

Signature

Alan Gallacher
Born to Tinker!

> Changing a tire... Not "pull the flat off and put the spare on", I mean
> "take the old tire off the rim and put a new one on."
[quoted text clipped - 145 lines]
>
> Here's hoping that "next time" is a long, Long, *LONG*, ways off...
Paul Hovnanian P.E. - 06 Jul 2005 03:41 GMT
[snip]

> He was right. every time I get frustrated and start to grunt and swear, I
> step back, apply more dish soap (lubricant) and try another angle.

Hmm. Sounds like my approach to dating. ;-)

Signature

Paul Hovnanian     mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
I have a very firm grasp on reality. I can reach out and strangle it any
time!

twillmon@cybermesa.net - 06 Jul 2005 14:21 GMT
  >Newsgroups: rec.autos.tech
  >Anumber1 wrote:
  >[snip]
  >> He was right. every time I get frustrated and start to grunt and
  >>swear, I  step back, apply more dish soap (lubricant) and try
  >another angle.
Might interest you:  my favorite tire shop in D.C. used big pails of
Murphy's Oil Soap (gel consistency), little water on top, small mop (like
for BBQ) as tire mounting lube.

Also, I use a heavy rubber mallet for mounting motorcycle tires, never pinch
tubes.  And a stout metal garbage can (antique?) makes a great changing
stand for them.  Dowidat makes my favorite bike tire irons.

Tom Willmon
near Mountainair, (mid) New Mexico, USA

Net-Tamer V 1.12.0 - Registered
ray - 05 Jul 2005 15:24 GMT
> Changing a tire... Not "pull the flat off and put the spare on", I mean
> "take the old tire off the rim and put a new one on."
> The guys at the shop with their umpty-hundred (or more) dollar machines
> make it look *SO* easy...

Yeah, done that once when I was younger and broke.
My buddy's dad had a couple of "tweaked" prybars to help facilitate the
process...

To break the bead:  We used a bumper jack and a pickup truck.  The base
of the bumper jack is your bead breaking tool.  Jack up the truck and
it'll pop the bead.

To get the tire off/on - lots of elbow grease with tweaked prybars -
they had "hooks" ground in the edge and were "springy" - I think they
were old trailer leaf springs.

To seat the bead - use a chain or a comealong and wrap it around the
tire to force the bead outwards.  Or wedge the tire up against the
outside corner of the garage with your knee.

Yeah, it was like 4 hours of work to do 4 tires.  Was enlightening.
Never again.  I go to auctions looking for used tire machines now...

Good job tho!

Ray
Mike Romain - 05 Jul 2005 15:38 GMT
> > Changing a tire... Not "pull the flat off and put the spare on", I mean
> > "take the old tire off the rim and put a new one on."
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
> Ray

4 hours for 4 tires?  Man you are 'good'!

I also did that once using your jack method and a rope tourniquet and
regular crow bars and a hand pump.

Took better part of the day for 2 tires....

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Brian - 05 Jul 2005 17:18 GMT
I use a Harbour Freight tire changer.  After you fix the bead breaker, it
works well.  Popping tires off rims is quite easy, it's often a bear to put
them back on.  the design of the bar is wrong to easily put tires on, but I
am trying out a new type of bar from Roger Kraus Racing.  I use a HF bubble
balancer as well.

I can do 4 formula Ford tires in about 30 minutes, start to finished and
balanced.  It takes at least a half hour to mount a Formula Atlantic rear
(13" dia, by 14" wide wheel) unless you luck in big time...two men on it
helps a lot!

I tried to do some brand new 10" Mini tires and just flat out gave up.  Old
Mini wheels are deal easy, wheels that are made to the most modern rim specs
are very hard.

I've had to go up to 90 PSI to get the beads on Goodyear Formula Atlantic
front tires to seat.  I called them, and they said that these tires were
apparantly spinning on the rims so they spec'd them a tiny bit tighter - and
resulted in very hard to seat beads.

>> > Changing a tire... Not "pull the flat off and put the spare on", I mean
>> > "take the old tire off the rim and put a new one on."
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
N8N - 05 Jul 2005 17:49 GMT
> I use a Harbour Freight tire changer.  After you fix the bead breaker, it
> works well.  Popping tires off rims is quite easy, it's often a bear to put
> them back on.  the design of the bar is wrong to easily put tires on, but I
> am trying out a new type of bar from Roger Kraus Racing.  I use a HF bubble
> balancer as well.

Any recommendations on a manual tire changer?  I was considering buying
the HF one simply because I have two cars' worth of wheels that I'd
like to sandblast and repaint; the cost of having the tires dismounted
at a shop would be more than the cost of the HF changer.  But if
there's a better unit out there I'm all ears.

thanks,

nate

PS - why is everything so expensive these days?  I was quoted $400
simply to sandblast and repaint four steel wheels!  sheesh... for that
it's DEFINITELY worth doing it myself!
HLS@nospam.nix - 05 Jul 2005 16:27 GMT
> Never again.  I go to auctions looking for used tire machines now...
>
> Good job tho!
>
> Ray

It feels good, now and again, to do something like this to prove it can
still be done, though.

Sometimes we get so tied up in technology that we seem to have become a
nation of button pushers.
ray - 06 Jul 2005 15:57 GMT
>>Never again.  I go to auctions looking for used tire machines now...
>>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Sometimes we get so tied up in technology that we seem to have become a
> nation of button pushers.

Hey, I'm a button pusher at my day job. ;) (computer tech)
But I spent 5 hours last night scrubbing down a 307 for my dirt track
car and installing new main and rod bearings.  Next time I'll splurge
for the ridge reamer and pull the pistons out - it's hard to install a
crankshaft with all the connecting rods in the way.  I ended up using
bailing wire to hold them out of the way and pieces of heater hose as
booties for the rod bolts.  Going good, but slow - at the rate I'm going
I'll be breaking the cam in the pits before the race.
Assuming it runs and doesn't blow up with a spun bearing 20 laps in,
I'll feel pretty good tho about my mechanical abilities - those bleeding
knuckles weren't all for naught.  Who says reading Car Craft in high
school was a bad thing? :)
mst - 05 Jul 2005 16:28 GMT
(Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net>) scribbled:

> Changing a tire... Not "pull the flat off and put the spare on", I mean
> "take the old tire off the rim and put a new one on."

Although I've never done a car/truck tire change, I *always*
change out the tires on my motorcycle - I've got it down to
30 minutes per wheel, including the removal/install of wheel.

* Remove wheel from bike
* Lay flat on sawhorses
* Use hacksaw to cut tire in half (actually, just to rim)
* Use heavy-duty wire cutters to cut both beads (tire now drops off rim)
* Soap first bead up, push tire down around rim (I've never had
 to use a 'spoon' for this first bead).
* Soap up second bead, push bead down into rim well as far as can go
* Cut 2 strips from plastic milk jug for use as rim protectors - use
 2 long-blade screwdrivers: one anchor bead, other to push remaining
 bead onto rim (dont forget the plastic strips to protect rim).
* Balance rim/tire
* Re-install wheel to bike.

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Al Bundy - 05 Jul 2005 23:08 GMT
> Changing a tire... Not "pull the flat off and put the spare on", I mean
> "take the old tire off the rim and put a new one on."
[quoted text clipped - 151 lines]
> subject unless it comes from a "whitelisted" (pre-approved by me) address.
> See <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/main/contact.html> for full details.

I'd have plugged the flat with my patch kit if I could. If not I would
have a spare mounted on a full sized rim. Spending all day working on
nothing is not my idea of fun.
 
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