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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / August 2005Another hypothetical situation
In looking over some of the evaluations of late model automobiles, very few were given a smiley face where road noise was concerned. I have ridden in some cars where the rumble from the front suspension, road noise, wind noise were nearly unbearable. Now, maybe in the higher end cars of similar chassis series, the problems may be less. The question is, is it possible to make a silk purse from a sow's ear? Is insulation enough, or does the problem get into subframe reinforcement, welding, and techniques yet undefined? > In looking over some of the evaluations of late model automobiles, very few > were given a smiley face [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > problem get into subframe reinforcement, welding, and techniques yet > undefined? It would be interesting to see if the actual dB level has increased over the years. Perhaps people expect the perfect car whereas in the past they were happy if it just went forward at a reasonable speed. «» wrote: > It would be interesting to see if the actual dB level has increased > over the years. Perhaps people expect the perfect car whereas in the > past they were happy if it just went forward at a reasonable speed. I suspect that road noise for passenger cars that are not entry level models has actually decreased over the years. For an eye (and ear) opener take a ride in a fully restored stock passenger car from a few decades ago. Not only is the ride and drivability at high speed noticably poorer, but the noise level is up there as well. I suspect the higher end models, at least some of them, are much better now than low end and also better than cars of a few decades ago. Insulation is part of it, I am sure. Isolation of rolling stock from the body by rubber bushings, etc, may also be better than it used to be. I have felt for a long time that most GM cars had less jitter, jiggle, noise than most Fords, but that may be grossly oversimplifying the 'feel' of the cars. I do know, for example, that some of the Mustangs had such flexible unibodies that ride stability was not optimum. The Fox body Mustangs are notorious for this, but my first (a new 66 Mustang) had jitter problems as well. Some local mechanics in Houston tried welding all the subframe panels, etc, solid to try to offset the spot weld frame's flexibility. They say it worked. In the report I read, some BMW's and some Mercedes Benz rated very highly for road noise. Most other cars were somewhat noisy to downright uncomfortable. I guess I am viewing this with an eye to another project car. I was unexpectedly pleased with 2003 Mustang Convertible, automatic, 3.8L (???) or 4.8 (?), dont know much about cars, anyway I rented it in Florida ( I am from Russia-->New York) and HATED the day I returned it to go back to my own Sentra, that Mustang was like a bed, soft, uhh,.... I fear every sizable pothole with my Nossan Sentra, though otherwise and fuel-economy wise my Sentra is nonreplaceable, i only but them No such thin gin my 2004 Nissan Sentra, sometimes I wish I could hear it; also since 1900 miles I switched to AMSOIl synthetic oil and all other liquids also AMSOIL, the top in oil (Mobil1 contrary to publi cbeoiefs is only #2 despite their lying commercials) Your article is wrong, I dont know what "models" you've been researching, no noise in my new workhorse Nissa nSentra, no noise in ANY I reneted which were Oldsmobile and Ford. After removings nonessential weights, spare tire/wheel and replacing steel wheels with light Aluminum alloys I am making 40+mph, even mor ethan stock/advertised valu eof 35 highway, ok, and quiet like a dead horse. > Your article is wrong, I dont know what "models" you've been researching, no > noise in my new workhorse Nissa nSentra, no noise in ANY I reneted which > were Oldsmobile and Ford. I wouldn't venture a guess on whether the review is wrong or not, and don't really have a good way to find objective data. I have ridden in a number of new cars in which rumble from the rolling parts is pronounced. Some cars seem relatively quiet until you hit a pothole, and then they sound like two skeletons making love. If one believed the figures in this review, the Lexus 430 would probably be the best car in every category. >In looking over some of the evaluations of late model automobiles, very few >were given a smiley face [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >problem get into subframe reinforcement, welding, and techniques yet >undefined? The primary reason, IMHO, is because of the shift away from body on frame to unibody combined with the use of thinner body panels and stiffer suspension bushings. But as with anything, it's highly variable, some old cars were noisy and some new cars are quiet. All the truly quiet cars I've had were body on frame, Full sized Chevy's, Dodge's and Fords from the 70's and 80's. You might recall how Ford used to advertise how quiet their cars were and one of the reasons was that the glass was thicker they said. You'll notice they don't talk about them being quiet anymore because like most makes, their bread and butter cars have gotten very noisy compared to years ago. Just as a specific comparison, I had a 69 Firebird, which was unibody, that was a VERY quiet car, one of the quietest I have ever owned even though it was a 400 high performance model. I bought a 76 vette to replace it with an the vette was so noisy (and hard riding) I sold it and kept the Firebird another 5 years. I now have a 99 GT and it is an incredibly noisy car, you almost need to wear earplugs on a long trip. Part of that is the wide tires but most of it is thinner panels and hard suspension bushings that transmit road noise. And that's after I went thru it with foam and dynamat to try and quiet it down. I have a 89 S-10 that's actually pretty quiet, much quieter then the Mustang, mostly because it's body on frame (like all cars used to be), most of the noise in it comes from wind noise. I also have a 2005 Crown Vic, which is pretty quiet but not as quiet as the older full sized cars were, again it goes back to the thinner panels (to save weight and money), thinner carpets, thinner glass, wider tires, and general cost cutting. > >In looking over some of the evaluations of late model automobiles, very few > >were given a smiley face [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > weight and money), thinner carpets, thinner glass, wider tires, and > general cost cutting. Makes sense to me. I feel that, in a project car, one might be able to add insulation, spray on acoustic foam, etc to help with noise. 'Jitter', for lack of a better word, is another phenomenon that makes cars unpleasant to drive. I don't mean a correctable shimmy or wobble. In 1990, I drove a number (5-6) Ford Thunderbirds from various dealerships because I thought it was a nice looking car at a reasonable price. All of them had this 'jitter', some extremely unpleasant, some almost liveable, but not one of them had the smooth 'eel in an oil barrel' feel that I had hoped for. Salesmen had all sorts of lame explanations, none of which washed. Perhaps unibody reinforcements, shock tower stabilizers, etc would help this too. And then maybe the sow's ear will never be a silk purse >>>In looking over some of the evaluations of late model automobiles, very > > few > >>>were given a smiley face >>>where road noise was concerned. <tons of speculation deleted> OR maybe its just because the candy-butt "car as an appliance" types doing the "evaluations" at the magazines now put WAY more emphasis on road noise and wind noise than they ever did before. The truth of the matter is that a lot of heavy-duty pickup trucks of today have less wind and road noise than mid-to-upper price passenger cars of the 70s- Although nothing has really matched the likes of the last big Cadillac ('76) Lincoln ('77) or New Yorker ('78). The last modern car I got in and thought "wow, that's a lot of road noise" was a POS Kia Optima that Avis stuck me with at Dulles a few months back, but I'm not really sure that counts as an "automobile." :-p But don't use me as an example- I'm one of the ones that complained about the 300C and Magnum R/T not sounding enough like a real engine, which led Chrysler to design a throatier exhaust system for the Charger R/T. A few years ago, my daughter needed a new car and wanted a Nissan. Like a fool, I wanted her to check around some, and went with her to test drive a new Mustang. What a POS! Rumbling rolling stock noise, just pure crap. The Nissan was a pretty quiet car beside it. Back in the old days, we drove Fords that did not have air conditioning, and they would beat you to death on the road. ... Jiggle, wind blowing in, etc. Very unpleasant. Now, I wonder if there is any need for a car to be noisy or jittery? Does it really cost that much to make something of really high quality? I have nothing evil to say about Chrysler, although they have been flamed a lot lately. We traditionally drive Buicks, and they have a fair (although soft butted) ride, reasonable noise and jitter, and fair mileage. To me, the downside is the electrics. Do you have to pay $50,000 to get the quiet and smooth ride of a LS430? Or could you take a Toyota Camry and trick it out? >>>>In looking over some of the evaluations of late model automobiles, very >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >doing the "evaluations" at the magazines now put WAY more emphasis on >road noise and wind noise than they ever did before. Actually, I think they put less emphasis on it. Now it's all about power and handling (which is OK, but not the ONLY thing). Many car mags for years and years had dB readings for interior noise at idle, cruise, and WOT. I'm not sure if they even bother anymore. But it was good to know. I've got a cheap dB meter and I can easily see the difference in readings between my Crown Vic and my GT. The truth of the >matter is that a lot of heavy-duty pickup trucks of today have less wind >and road noise than mid-to-upper price passenger cars of the 70s- [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >about the 300C and Magnum R/T not sounding enough like a real engine, >which led Chrysler to design a throatier exhaust system for the Charger R/T. >> >In looking over some of the evaluations of late model automobiles, very >few [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > >And then maybe the sow's ear will never be a silk purse That reminds my of a 1980 Chevy X-car (Citation) I owned. It was one of Chevy's first FWD little cars. And it did NOT have enough "beam" or torsional stiffness. Felt like driving a wet noodle. Hated that car. |
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