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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / September 2005

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1987 olds delta 88.

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Matt - 15 Sep 2005 19:46 GMT
Hello, and thanks in advance for any advice provided.

I have an olds 1987 delta 88. I can't find an engine code, it's a 3.8L,
I count 6 spark plug wires, but all the parts stores tell me this model
is only available in a V8. So, I have no idea what model or even really
what size the motor is, other then it is definetly a 3.8L.

The radiator fan seized, followed by severe overheating. It's possible
that the head gaskets are blown now; but I'm willing to try the fan
replacement first.

I removed the fan assembly, and then disassembled the motor. Nary a bit
of insulation on the windings, which I suppose would explain its
failure to turn.

I called O'reilly, and they quoted a price around $60, _including_ the
shroud that the fan motor mounts in, as well as the fan blade. Seems a
bit low to me, but hey....I'm not complaining. The mechanic we took it
to first wanted $350 for one.

My two questions:

1. There is also a resistor mounted on the shroud. Looks to me to be in
bad shape (although I havn't measured its resistance yet) - does anyone
know if this bit also comes with the new assy? (No big deal, just
curious. I'm sure I can afford a new one).

2. I'm guessing there is a sensor somewhere that triggers the fan. I'm
thinking I might just as well replace it while I'm at it -
unfortunately I have no idea where it is on the block. Any tips on it's
location?

Thanks much!
Matt
Shep - 15 Sep 2005 22:51 GMT
This is a fwd?, if so there is a fan relay commnaded by the ecu from the
coolant temp sensor, a scanner will be required to check this properly.
> Hello, and thanks in advance for any advice provided.
>
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
> Thanks much!
> Matt
Matt - 16 Sep 2005 00:57 GMT
Shep -

I think its a RWD. At leaast, I can't see any drive mechanics in ther
engine bay that indicate a FWD.

But as I've clearly demonstrated, I know nothing of such things.

Im just hopin to get  a car that doedsn't boil over or blow head
gaskets when I go on job interviews.

Thanks
Matt
Steve B. - 16 Sep 2005 02:20 GMT
>Hello, and thanks in advance for any advice provided.
>
>I have an olds 1987 delta 88. I can't find an engine code, it's a 3.8L,
>I count 6 spark plug wires, but all the parts stores tell me this model
>is only available in a V8. So, I have no idea what model or even really
>what size the motor is, other then it is definetly a 3.8L.

It is a 3.8L V6 and front wheel drive I do  believe.  This is right
around the year they downsized these models.

>The radiator fan seized, followed by severe overheating. It's possible
>that the head gaskets are blown now; but I'm willing to try the fan
>replacement first.

Before doing that you should run a compression test on the engine.  No
sense putting a new fan on a dead engine.  I've got a friend who is at
250k on his '88 and generally has to replace the fan motor every other
year.  Amazing how well these cars hold up BUT a good overheating will
kill it and since they are typically "granny cars" you can find a good
lower mileage replacement for very little money.

                      Steve B.
Comboverfish - 16 Sep 2005 02:26 GMT
> Hello, and thanks in advance for any advice provided.
>
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
> Thanks much!
> Matt

First off, you really need to know that your car is front wheel drive.
The engine is a 3.8 liter V-6.  Armed with this basic knowledge, you
can tell the parts store flunkies that they are wrong when they tell
you your engine is a V-8.

I don't think there's a "resistor" in the fan circuit...  I don't know
what the part is you are refering to, but if you post a pic of it that
will help the ID process.  I believe that your car could possibly have
an optional second cooling fan.  Is there another fan on either side of
the radiator besides the faulty one you removed?  If there are multiple
fans, perhaps the one you removed *is* a low speed fan and *does*
incorporate a resistor.  Just thinking out loud.  Hell, I couldn't even
drive when these cars came out...

If this is the old non-ECM controlled fan system, there should be a
coolant temp switch threaded into the upper engine, probably near the
alternator.  With the key on, you could ground that switch wire and the
fan relay near the left headlight / front left fender area should click
closed.  You could test the hot wire to the fan with a test light to
see if it gets voltage when grounding the temp switch.

Keep in mind that if this fan seized while still drawing current (as
evidenced by the crispy windings), the fan relay and harnass could have
severely overheated from excess current.  The fan fuse could have blown
as well.

Toyota MDT in MO
Matt - 16 Sep 2005 02:47 GMT
Comboverfish - et al  -

Thanks so much!!!! for the comments/suggestions. Based on what you have
all said, I have to conclude its a FWD - it's just that I alway thought
a FWD had what more or less looked like a transmission in the engine
bay to me; I see no such beast here; but - Im an idiot when it comes to
newer models.

I used to have a 71 fury, and a 71 442 that I rebuilt the motors in, so
I know enough to be dangerous, but I'm the first to admit Im way ou t
of my leauge here.

Illl see if I can get ahold of a camers to take some pics. The
'resistor' thing is white, about 1"square, and 4 -5 " long. (im also a
dangerous elctronics buff, and it looks to me like a very high wattage
resistor. Perhaps it serves some other function such as shutting off
the fan; I really don't know. I can tell you it is in the picture of
the documentation for the replacement motor I bought.  It's mounted
directly on the fan shroud.

Also, the advice about not buying  a fan before doing a compression
test is well taken. In fact, I took it to a mechanic to do just that;
he charged me $150, said he would then need to order another $400 of
parts - AND THEN tell me whether the head gaskets needed to be
replaced.

In short, I got taken.

Current status is I replaced the fan ($30), tommorrow Im going to use
some prestone radiator cleaner to flush the system out, and then refill
with new antifreeze/water.

Anyway, after replacing the fan I let the car idle for 30 mins, and all
temps remained normal. Last week my friend let it idle for 5 - 10 mins
and MASSIVE overhrating ensued.

I'll keep ya all updateted, and send pictures as I can.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR ALL YOUR HELP.

Matt
Comboverfish - 16 Sep 2005 02:53 GMT
So, still wondering, are there two fans on your vehicle or just one?
Look on the engine side AND the grille side of the radiator.  I don't
know why you would have a resistor wired to the fan unless there are
multiple fans, or a previous owner piggled it on there....

Toyota MDT in MO
Matt - 16 Sep 2005 02:58 GMT
Ah, sorry.

Just one fan.

Absolutely just one fan .........

It's mounted on a shroud slightly to the left of the radiator, as
viewed from the front.

I wish I had a scanner to send you the install sheet - the 'resistor'
is clearly visible on the pics.

If it helps any, the fan I bought was a Murray 35656 Rad. Fan Motor.

I also can't see any reason for a resistor. But it does have a 'factory
installed' appeaance to it.

Thanks
Matt
Matt - 16 Sep 2005 03:01 GMT
oops

meant to say its mounted _behind_ the radiator, to the _right_ as
viewed from the front.

A bit too many beers for me tonight.

Thanks
Matt
Comboverfish - 16 Sep 2005 03:06 GMT
> Ah, sorry.
>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> Thanks
> Matt

OK.  I really don't know for sure as is evident, but it could be used
with a pair of relays and switches to incorporate a lower speed into
your one fan.  IF this is the case, and IF the relay is bad, it
wouldn't be the end of the world if you jumpered across it so that any
fan motor request would result in high speed operation.  I am under the
impression that the main reason manufacturers began using two speed fan
setups (usually differently designed than yours) was to reduce
operating noise.  Many FWD cars had only one single speed fan, but they
were often the lower dollar models.

Toyota MDT in MO
Matt - 16 Sep 2005 03:11 GMT
ROger that.

Please see my latest post in:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.tech/browse_frm/thread/0f0b1099f8bc5c08
/2088178a2f56bca1?hl=en#2088178a2f56bca1


Would love a chance to repay you guys for the money you have saved me.

Matt
Matt - 16 Sep 2005 03:13 GMT
Damn.

AM I really this drunk?

Here is a different link:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.autos.gm/browse_frm/thread/b9a64f5587cc3dbe/6
b490a0ba62d3dce?hl=en#6b490a0ba62d3dce

Matt - 16 Sep 2005 04:46 GMT
Gentlemen -

The engine runs even cooler now.

Sleep well, for you have helped a complete stranger in ways you will
never know.

Matt
 
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