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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / October 2005The Water Engine?
Heh, hold back the flames, plz, and read this one: http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money-savers/article.html?in_article_id=403819&in_p age_id=5 Another company claiming to boost combustion efficiency by injecting H2 into the fuel mixture. This concept claims that hydrogen will be extracted from water by centrifugation, to then inject it into the fuel mix. A new spin on the same idea, if you'll forgive the pun. ;) So I'm just asking if this sounds at all feasible. How much H2 can you extract from H2O by centrifugation?? I've never really heard of this approach before. Can centrifugal force be used to efficiently split water, or separate it from dissolved H2 gas to generate the latter in sufficient quantities? Is this sudden spate of announcement on new energy efficiency technologies related to big spike in prices at the gas pump these days? ie. are snake-oil salesmen crawling out of the woodwork faster than the rats & snakes fleeing Rita & Katrina? Comments? > Heh, hold back the flames, plz, and read this one: http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money-savers/article.html?in_article_id=403819&in_p age_id=5 > Another company claiming to boost combustion efficiency by injecting H2 > into the fuel mixture. This concept claims that hydrogen will be [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Comments? Nope, not feasible. To hydrogen enrich fuel in an auto, either buy reformed methane in a cylinder or find an inexpensive on-board hydrocarbon reformer. Don W. > Heh, hold back the flames, plz, and read this one: > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > water, or separate it from dissolved H2 gas to generate the latter in > sufficient quantities? 1) How much energy would it take to spin a centrifuge fast enough to accomplish this? More than the hydrogen would yield itself? 2) If it were that easy to extract hydrogen, don't you think somebody would be doing it already? Such as hydrogen-friendly General Motors? > Is this sudden spate of announcement on new energy efficiency > technologies related to big spike in prices at the gas pump these > days? Yes. It happens every time people become fearful of supply. To mind comes 1959, 1973, 1979... > Heh, hold back the flames, plz, and read this one: > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > ie. are snake-oil salesmen crawling out of the woodwork faster than the > rats & snakes fleeing Rita & Katrina? Gadgets that are purported to extract free energy from water have been around in various forms for decades. This is nothing more than a way to separate you from your money. > Heh, hold back the flames, plz, and read this one: > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Comments? Faraday's Law ain't broke. See the discussion at http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu05.asp and the tutorials at http://www.tinaja.com/glib/energfun.pdf and http://www.tinaja.com/muse153.pdf  SignatureMany thanks, Don Lancaster Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552 voice: (928)428-4073 email: don@tinaja.com Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com >> Heh, hold back the flames, plz, and read this one: >> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > tutorials at http://www.tinaja.com/glib/energfun.pdf and > http://www.tinaja.com/muse153.pdf I guess you could calculate (it's not difficult) what rotational speed would be needed for a centrifuge to attain IR energies. However I suspect that there is no material that could stand the internal stresses that such speed would entail. It isn't even worth the effort to do so since the center seeking force would apply to the whole molecule and how could that cause the bond to break. Besides there is the little problem of relativistic energies. FK > Heh, hold back the flames, plz, and read this one: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > So I'm just asking if this sounds at all feasible. No. > How much H2 can you > extract from H2O by centrifugation?? None. As in "zero". As in "dream on". > I've never really heard of this > approach before. Because it's the biggest load of total bullshit since Sasquatch. > Can centrifugal force be used to <scratches out "efficiently" and substitutes "at all"> > split water, or separate it from dissolved H2 gas No. > to generate the latter in > sufficient quantities? No. Not in any measurable quantity. > Is this sudden spate of announcement on new energy efficiency > technologies related to big spike in prices at the gas pump these days? > ie. are snake-oil salesmen crawling out of the woodwork faster than the > rats & snakes fleeing Rita & Katrina? Yes. SignatureDon Bruder - dakidd@sonic.net - New Email policy in effect as of Feb. 21, 2004. Short form: I'm trashing EVERY E-mail that doesn't contain a password in the subject unless it comes from a "whitelisted" (pre-approved by me) address. See <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/main/contact.html> for full details. Oh Ghod, do we have another water powered car scam surfacing? Harry C. Many years ago, in this little t***hole town, a dude drove into a service station and asked the attendant to fill his tank with water. The attendant resisted, but finally did what the dude wanted. The dude took a small white pill out of a container and put it down the fill tube, then started his car. You can guess the rest. The attendant was scammed into buying the miraculous pills and the dude drove off (with gasoline from his reserve tank). There is no free lunch. > Many years ago, in this little t***hole town, a dude drove into a service > station and asked the attendant [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > There is no free lunch. One of the very few instances where the urban lore is absolutely correct! Actually, the pill ---> really <--- exists and ---> really <--- works. Ask any older caver. Until recently, you could buy these pills at any larger mining supply store. They remain available from chemical houses. Just add water. The only tiny little negative side effect (hardly worth mentioning) is getting only fifty miles to the engine. Plus, of course, they taste awful if they get into a peanut butter sandwich in your cave pack. Besides giving you gas. http://www.tinaja.com/glib/energfun.pdf SignatureMany thanks, Don Lancaster Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552 voice: (928)428-4073 email: don@tinaja.com Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com Now thats an engine. A carbide-enhanced methane generator. Some of the environmentalists (and close friends) may complain about the emissions... I've had an effective water-powered car for years. Of course, it takes a really long hose to supply the Pelton wheel inside, but as long as I am a couple hundred feet from a fire hydrant it works just great. --scott Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." > Many years ago, in this little t***hole town, a dude drove into a service > station and asked the attendant [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > There is no free lunch. I suppose this takes the thread a little OT, but not by much. I used to have a Renault 4CV. It had a filler cap above the engine hood (rear engined car). Turns out that filler cap was the radiator cap. The gas cap was under the hood. Never had it happen to me, but heard stories of how many times people put gas in cooling system. This was before self serve gas stations. Reason it never happened to me is that ultimately we never got the car to run. Turned out it had a VERY cracked block. Paid 10 bucks for it, sold it for parts at considerable profit. Used money to buy car that actually ran. > Reason it never happened to me is that ultimately we never got the car > to run. Turned out it had a VERY cracked block. Paid 10 bucks for it, > sold it for parts at considerable profit. Used money to buy car that > actually ran. A friend had one of those. First and only one I have ever seen here in America. The fiber camshaft gear was the first indication that this car was less than robust. An electrical fire was the second. It got no third chance. > So I'm just asking if this sounds at all feasible. How much H2 can you > extract from H2O by centrifugation?? I've never really heard of this > approach before. Can centrifugal force be used to efficiently split > water, or separate it from dissolved H2 gas to generate the latter in > sufficient quantities? You can easily show this does work. Wet a CD-ROM and put it in 40X drive. Let it spin for a few seconds. Open the tray, and all the H2O has split! > Heh, hold back the flames, plz, and read this one: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > extracted from water by centrifugation, to then inject it into the fuel > mix. Looks like thisismoney.co.uk have fallen for the same spiel as the business pages of the Independent, which I posted about under "OM Energy - Another Scam?". Mind you, the Independent had no excuse, as it's supposed to be a quality paper. Thisismoney.co.uk is part of the Daily Mail group, and is therefore probaby more concerned with keeping asylum seekers out, protecting "family values" and whining that they can't understand modern art. If ever any group of people deserved to be swindled ... Ian Water injection to improve the thermal efficiency of internal combustion engines is 1930's technology. It was used by early transatlantic airliners before the advent of high octane fuels, it allowed running at the lean side of peak pressure and provided cooling, (Conversion of excess heat to mechanical energy). Free energy by centrifuguning water to break the Hydrogen-Oxygen bond is pure bullshit.. MadDog "Facts, (the laws of thermodynamics), do not cease to exist just because they are ignored". > Water injection to improve the thermal efficiency of internal >combustion engines is 1930's technology. >It was used by early transatlantic airliners before the advent of >high octane fuels, it allowed running at the lean side of peak pressure >and provided cooling, (Conversion of excess heat to mechanical energy). Note that it was actually pioneered on the B-29. I believe this was one of the super-secret features of that aircraft, along with some turbocharger refinemants. > Free energy by centrifuguning water to break the Hydrogen-Oxygen >bond is pure bullshit.. Sheesh, next thing you know, you'll be telling me that my plan to use flatulent weasels in the trunk as methane generators is impractical. --scott Really, it just takes a few bean enchiladas, see... Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." > Note that it was actually pioneered on the B-29. I believe this was > one of the super-secret features of that aircraft, along with some > turbocharger refinemants. Both Merlin and Allison used it before the B-29. Early P-40s had it. I think P-38 did too. I think it was developed in early to mid -30s. >> Note that it was actually pioneered on the B-29. I believe this was >> one of the super-secret features of that aircraft, along with some >> turbocharger refinemants. > > Both Merlin and Allison used it before the B-29. Early P-40s had it. I > think P-38 did too. I think it was developed in early to mid -30s. My dad's close friend had a tracter with three 'fuel tanks'. Started the unit on high-octane gasoline. Then gradually mixed in water and #2 fuel oil. This was a mid -30's engine. daestrom > My dad's close friend had a tracter with three 'fuel tanks'. Started the > unit on high-octane gasoline. Then gradually mixed in water and #2 fuel > oil. This was a mid -30's engine. > > daestrom I remember some oceangoing tankers also used emulsions of Bunker C and water as fuel. Bunker C or Fuel Oil #6 is like road tar. Using the emulsion dropped the viscosity and made it more pumpable. This is not unlike the Oremulsion (sp?) project and products used in Venezuela. Some were claiming that the actual fuel value was not dropping to the level that this dilution would have predicted. If true, and I cannot substantiate this, then there was a de facto efficiency improvement. >Note that it was actually pioneered on the B-29. I believe this was >one of the super-secret features of that aircraft, along with some t>urbocharger refinemants. Definitely earlier. Check out the Pan Am "Clippers", though it might have been water/alcohol mix that was used. MadDog >>Note that it was actually pioneered on the B-29. I believe this was >>one of the super-secret features of that aircraft, along with some [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > might have been water/alcohol mix that was used. > MadDog Alcohol was added as anti-freeze so tank would not freeze up at colder temps found at high altitude. All aircraft "water-injection" had alcohol "anti-freeze" in it. > Water injection to improve the thermal efficiency of internal > combustion engines is 1930's technology. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > "Facts, (the laws of thermodynamics), do not cease to exist > just because they are ignored". Actually it goes back even further than that. The old Rumley Oil Pull tractors used it pre-ww1. I don't think Rumley understood why it worked, but it allowed one of the best kerosene burning tractors of the era, 'cause it raised octane of kerosene up to level near that of gasolines of period. He thought it helped mix fuel and air better. Detonation and octane rating were not understood well yet in that era. |
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