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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / September 2005Overheating and slight rumble when driving over 55mph
I just purchased a 1995 Ford E250 cargo van with 4.9L I6 and 3-speed auto. Everything seems to run fine and all fluid levels are up where they should be. No fluid is leaking. Tranny fluid is red, radiator fluid is green, oil is still somewhat clear. Prior to purchasing this vehicle a new temperature gauge was installed as the old one had stopped working. Fluid gauge indicates just below the 'high' level. The fan on the radiator is running fine. The vehicle drives fine with no problems until I get on the highway and get it over 55 mph. At this speed a deep low rumbling sound is felt/heard and the temperature gauge steadily increases and approaches the red after about 10 minutes of driving around 60-65. Strangely the low rumbling sound stops if I exceed around 65mph.. I'm assuming this is where the tranny shifts into 3rd? Sometimes when accelerating rapidly I can actually see the temp gauge jumping up. After I get off the highway and drop down to usual street speed the temperature goes back into the normal middle level after a few minutes. I pop the hood and can feel the heat coming off the engine but It's not to the point that there is smoke or steam or anything like that but I haven't driven it all the way into the red! I'm no mechanic and only have a basic knowledge of repairs. I'd appreciate any help as to where I should start. My uninformed newbie guesses would lead me to look into a new radiator or something involving the transmission. I just ordered a printed Haynes repair manual and the Ford factory service manuals on CD hoping these may help. I bought this van with no warranty 'as is' so I'm stuck dealing with the problems myself and appreciate any pointers. Thanks Jay >I just purchased a 1995 Ford E250 cargo van with 4.9L I6 and 3-speed auto. > Everything seems to run fine and all fluid levels are up where they should [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > Thanks > Jay Jay. Does it have a fan clutch? >>I just purchased a 1995 Ford E250 cargo van with 4.9L I6 and 3-speed auto. >> Everything seems to run fine and all fluid levels are up where they [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Jay. Does it have a fan clutch? I'm not sure if it has a fan clutch.. but the fan is ALWAYS running as soon as I turn the car on if that helps. Any further input? Jay > The vehicle drives fine with no > problems until I get on the highway and get it over 55 mph. At this > speed a deep low rumbling sound is felt/heard and the temperature > gauge steadily increases and approaches the red after about 10 > minutes of driving around 60-65. Strangely the low rumbling sound > stops if I exceed around 65mph. If you search this group, for my posts about my 1995 Camaro, this sounds eerily similar to a problem I recently had: clogged catalytic converter It orig started coming back to Texas from Florida. At around 5-55, I would get some stumbling and temp guage rising, but if I went faster, things would improve, or if I went slower. I changed a number of things (plugs/wires/fuel filter) and the problem went away - it was only coincidence. About a month later, the problem cropped up again. Turns out the cat was broken internally and pieces must have shifted around, "clearing up" the problem, then shifted around again and re-clogged. <http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.tech/browse_thread/thread/4db26ba3ee7ad 96d/01524eb67d0ee173?lnk=st&q=camaro+group:rec.autos.tech+author:mst&rnum=1&hl=e n#01524eb67d0ee173>  Signatureremove MYSHOES to email >> The vehicle drives fine with no >> problems until I get on the highway and get it over 55 mph. At this [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > have shifted around, "clearing up" the problem, then > shifted around again and re-clogged. <http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.tech/browse_thread/thread/4db26ba3ee7ad 96d/01524eb67d0ee173?lnk=st&q=camaro+group:rec.autos.tech+author:mst&rnum=1&hl=e n#01524eb67d0ee173> Thanks for your input. The thing is that a new catalytic converter was just installed a few days ago so I dont think that's it unless some old buildup from the exhaust system has moved into the catalytic after installation. Any further input? Jay >> The vehicle drives fine with no >> problems until I get on the highway and get it over 55 mph. At this [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > have shifted around, "clearing up" the problem, then > shifted around again and re-clogged. <http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.tech/browse_thread/thread/4db26ba3ee7ad 96d/01524eb67d0ee173?lnk=st&q=camaro+group:rec.autos.tech+author:mst&rnum=1&hl=e n#01524eb67d0ee173> Just to consider the idea that the catalytic converter installed here is bad.. If I were to remove the converter from the exhaust line and just replace it with a pipe, if this were the problem, then the overheating should go away right? The converter here is bolted on so would be easy to pull from the exhaust line. Jay > Just to consider the idea that the catalytic converter installed here > is bad.. If I were to remove the converter from the exhaust line and > just replace it with a pipe, if this were the problem, then the > overheating should go away right? The converter here is bolted on so > would be easy to pull from the exhaust line. Sure. I also read your reply about just recently having a new cat installed, so now I cant say what the issue might be. The stumbling/overheating didnt start after the new cat was installed, did it? Signatureremove MYSHOES to email >> Just to consider the idea that the catalytic converter installed here >> is bad.. If I were to remove the converter from the exhaust line and [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > The stumbling/overheating didnt start after the > new cat was installed, did it? I'm going to have to call up the shop/lot I bought it from last week and see if I can get any truthful answers out of them. Theyll probably just push me aside though as the car was sold "as-is" with no warranty unfortunately Jay Well.... You 'could' be describing a bottom end bearing that is about to blow up.... How is the oil pressure? Do you get any knocks when it's first started cold? Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: > I just purchased a 1995 Ford E250 cargo van with 4.9L I6 and 3-speed auto. > Everything seems to run fine and all fluid levels are up where they should [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > Thanks > Jay > Well.... You 'could' be describing a bottom end bearing that is about > to blow up.... [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Mike Mike I don't get any knocks - the vehicle starts right up and performance seems flawless aside from what I've outlined in my posting. The dashboard fluid indicator gauge is always near the upper end. The oil dipstick always indicates where it should be if not a little high. How would I check the oil pressure? thanks Jay >> I just purchased a 1995 Ford E250 cargo van with 4.9L I6 and 3-speed >> auto. Everything seems to run fine and all fluid levels are up where they [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >> Thanks >> Jay > > Well.... You 'could' be describing a bottom end bearing that is about > > to blow up.... [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > thanks > Jay You would need to either buy a mechanical gauge or have a garage put a test gauge in to see what it is at idle and at speed. If a main bearing is bad, the oil pressure will usually be low. When you just turn the key to 'run', not start, does the engine or oil light on the dash come on? It should so you know it is working. If the pressure was really low, some oil lights will flicker at hot idle, but a real gauge is the only way to check for sure. If it doesn't come on for the test, then you should address that first. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > The fan on the radiator is running fine. The vehicle drives fine with no > problems until I get on the highway and get it over 55 mph. At this speed a > deep low rumbling sound is felt/heard and the temperature gauge steadily > increases and approaches the red after about 10 minutes of driving around > 60-65. Strangely the low rumbling sound stops if I exceed around 65mph.. > I'm assuming this is where the tranny shifts into 3rd? Start with simple stuff first. 1) is the temp guage actually reading correctly? Maybe its a guage problem. 2) Trapped air in the cooling system? 3) Radiator fan clutch worn out so the fan doesn't spin fast enough at high engine speeds (don't be fooled just because the fan "spins," its actually got to move a good amount of air at high speed). 4) is all the grillework tight an in place? Could air-flow be moving something so that it partially blocks the radiator (could also cause rumbling sounds). maybe the rumbling is the fan clutch slipping. my 2 cent's you have a cooling problem van clutch? water pump on its way out ? stuck thermostat? radiator glogged ? crap in front of the radiator ? as for the hum bad wheel bearing will make your car hume at certain speeds ? mybe they put in a new tranny and its out of balance tourqe convertot to flex plate ? > my 2 cent's you have a cooling problem > van clutch? But he hasn't got a van. > water pump on its way out ? I think he locked the door already. > stuck thermostat? > radiator glogged ? Glogged or glugged? Plogged or plugged? > crap in front of the radiator ? The dog has been put down and the cat craps in the flower bed, so... > as for the hum > bad wheel bearing will make your car hume at certain speeds ? Hume or hum? Hume is a philosopher. Hum is something you do when you don't know the words. This happens at any speed. > mybe they put in a new tranny and its out of balance tourqe > convertot to flex plate ? Or maybe the tourniquet came loose and the heroin leaked out of the convertot. Tudy, (may I call you Tudy?) you really, really need to learn how to spell and type. >my 2 cent's you have a cooling problem >van clutch? >water pump on its way out ? >stuck thermostat? >radiator glogged ? >crap in front of the radiator ? >as for the hum >bad wheel bearing will make your car hume at certain speeds ? >mybe they put in a new tranny and its out of balance tourqe convertot >to flex plate ? Spelling errors aside, this post is pretty close to what I was thinking - that the noise and the overheating are not related to each other. Rev up your motor in park. I bet you do not get the noise. Bad wheel bearings, axles, tires, or transmission problems could be the culprit. While revving at idle, if it starts overheating (and the fan is running) you almost certainly have a clogged radiator, heater core, partially stuck thermostat, lack of cooling system pressure, or something else impeding either the flow of coolant or the removal of heat from the coolant. Barring all of that, too far advanced timing will make it run hot, but usually not hot enough to overheat. > I just purchased a 1995 Ford E250 cargo van with 4.9L I6 and 3-speed auto. > Everything seems to run fine and all fluid levels are up where they should [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > Thanks > Jay An update is in order here... The lot/shop I bought the van from claimed they were "sure" it was a bad thermostat.. so they took some more of my $$ to replace the thermostat and now the problem seems even worse. Now it seems to run at normal speeds slightly hotter and STILL overheats on the highway at speeds over 55mph. I just went to autozone and purchased a new fan clutch but haven't installed it yet as I'm not even sure this is the proper next step. It seems to me the speeds at which I'm driving on the highway should be enough to cool the engine to some degree just as much as the fan clutch would be doing.. or am i thinking wrong here? I'm just thinking that if it were the fan clutch that were out of order then perhaps the overheating would be happening while idling. The shop claims the radiator is not clogged at all and is circulating and the water pump appears to be fine. Does anyone have any further input before I blow $40 by trying to install this new fan clutch which may or may not fix the problem? Thank again for your help Jay > An update is in order here... The lot/shop I bought the van from claimed > they were "sure" it was a bad thermostat.. so they took some more of my $$ [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > highway should be enough to cool the engine to some degree just as much as > the fan clutch would be doing.. or am i thinking wrong here? I'm just You don't need a cooling fan at all when you're driving 55 mph, which proves that your overheating problem isn't caused by a defective fan clutch. Note that doesn't mean you don't have a defective fan clutch, but you definitely have another problem causing the overheating. > You don't need a cooling fan at all when you're driving 55 mph, which > proves > that your overheating problem isn't caused by a defective fan clutch. That is absolutely NOT true for many vehicles. I have PERSONALLY had a vehicle where a bad fan clutch would first show up at highway speed, and as it got worse progress to idling in traffic. Some vehicles, for whatever reason, don't get enough ram-air through the radiator to cool the engine. Its especially true for a big boxy vehicle like a van which requires a lot of engine power just to maintain highway speeds. More power-> more cooling requirement. > > You don't need a cooling fan at all when you're driving 55 mph, which > > proves [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > lot of engine power just to maintain highway speeds. More power-> more > cooling requirement. I have also had this problem. If the fan doesn't turn fast enough at highway speed then it BLOCKS the flow of air through the radiator - leading to overheating. Frank >proper next step. It seems to me the speeds at which I'm driving on the >highway should be enough to cool the engine to some degree just as much as >the fan clutch would be doing.. or am i thinking wrong here? No, you are correct there. The fan is generally just to keep air circulating when you are stopped. When you are driving forward, air is pummeling the area that the fan would be cooling. >the overheating would be happening while idling. The shop claims the >radiator is not clogged at all and is circulating and the water pump >appears to be fine. That leaves the heater core or a pressure leak, assuming the shop has done their job properly. You can double check them by allowing it to idle and then pinching the upper radiator hose - you should be able to feel the pressure behind it once the thermostat has opened, and it should increase proportionally with engine RPM. If your radiator is full, a pressure leak should vacate coolant at that spot (leaky hose, gasket, freeze plug, hole in radiator, etc) so I'm assuming you do not have this. If you suspect your heater core of all things, get a pipe fitting and simply bypass it (one heater hose into the other instead of into the firewall) and see what happens. A really long shot here would be a potential head gasket leaking exhaust into the coolant. That tends to cause mysterious cooling problems. You can check this by looking for bubbles under the radiator cap as you warm it up. There should be few to no bubbles. >>proper next step. It seems to me the speeds at which I'm driving on the >>highway should be enough to cool the engine to some degree just as much as [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > this by looking for bubbles under the radiator cap as you warm it up. > There should be few to no bubbles. Just to check this angle.. As I said before I can feel a deep rumbling in the van as I drive from 55 to 65mph and it also feels like there is a large amount of tension/pull in the drivetrain at this speed. I let off the gas at this speed and it seems like the speed decreases abnormally fast like it's being pulled back. Could the overheating at this speed be connected? Perhaps the engine is overworking due to some transmission problem or friction in the drivetrain somewhere? .. I'm just trying to figure out what my most economical and straight to the problem option would be here. Thanks again Jay >> I just purchased a 1995 Ford E250 cargo van with 4.9L I6 and 3-speed >> auto. Everything seems to run fine and all fluid levels are up where they [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > Thank again for your help > Jay one more update.. I just noticed after getting off the highway today that there is a tiny spot on the radiator itself near the top that is now leaking a minute amount of fluid but only when driving at highway speeds. Should I just go ahead and buy a new radiator at this point? I'm thinking there may be a large portion of corroded/rusted walls in this radiator with potential for pressure & fluid loss. Prior to this leak developing on the radiator the mechanic still insisted the cause of my overheating on the highway must be the fan clutch as it doesn't seem to go any faster when gas is applied. I'm planning on buying a new radiator from autozone this week @ $180 and also installing a new fan clutch myself from autozone. I will have to run myself over repeatedly (somehow) if the engine still runs hot after this... Thanks > one more update.. I just noticed after getting off the highway today that > there is a tiny spot on the radiator itself near the top that is now [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Thanks Here is a test for the fan clutch. With the engine fully heated up have someone shut it off and watch the fan. A good clutch will stop the fan almost instantly when hot. Second test is to have the engine off and grab the fan blades and wiggle them. There should be very little play in it. The leak up top is very common after a lazy person changes a thermostat. Rather than unhook the top hose, the lazy person bends it up out of the way to install the t-stat. This can and does crack the top hose nipple's solder seal or it pulls the plastic tank off the gasket if yours is plastic. A bad fan clutch will vibrate at 55 mph.... Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's |
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