 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / September 2005Unbelievable: Belt will not fit on new tensioner!
Hi everyone, hopefully this will be my last "help" thread here for a while! I just finished installing the new belt tensioner on my 91 Chevy Cavalier (4 cylinder). That was supposed to have been the hard part. Now, believe it or not, the serpentine belt will not fit on! I am about 1 inch short of being able to get the belt over the idler pulley when I turn it clockwise to the install position. I never had troubles installing the belt on the old tensioner. I tried both the old and the new belt. I even swapped idler pulleys. Nothing. And there is no way to adjust the belt tension on the new tensioner by removing the pulley, unlike with my old tensioner. Until I get this problem solved, I am stranded. Either that, or drive with no belt and limit myself to short trips (to prevent engine overheating) while recharging my battery every night (to make up for the alternator not doing it). Isn't this ridiculous??!! How do I get the new belt on? I can't believe this! The tensioner was from Advance Auto Parts, btw. Made by Dayco. Same one Auto Zone has. And I really don't want to have to uninstall it again, as it took me 11 hours the first time! Mostly sitting on the ground exasperated at not being able to access or align/install bolts, or getting pissed that bolts and tools were getting lost in the engine compartment!! :) Julie >Hi everyone, hopefully this will be my last "help" thread here for a while! > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > >Julie Silly question: is it possible to mount the belt tensioner in other that only 1 position? IOW, can you mount it by rotating it 30 degrees or so clockwise and then putting in the holding bolts? Maybe this is your problem, maybe not. Just a WAG. Lg > Silly question: > is it possible to mount the belt tensioner in other that only 1 [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > then putting in the holding bolts? Maybe this is your problem, maybe > not. Just a WAG. Hi Lawrence, thanks for asking and for your suggestion. No, the there are nine bolts which attach to the tensioner, and it can only fit one way. The pattern is pretty distinctive. I thought of that, and also whether I had reinstalled the PS pump correctly. But I was able to torque the three PS pump bolts, and the only way to do that is if they went correctly into the bores in the PS pump (otherwise the bolts would just spin repeatedly). The thing is, the idler pulley on the new tensioner is positioned slightly differently on the tensioner, and I think this slight difference is the problem. But I definitely purchased the correct tensioner, supposedly, as it only works for two or three GM cars. Maybe I will have to buy and genuine GM one?? Or use a "universal" fan belt?? Julie >> Silly question: >> is it possible to mount the belt tensioner in other that only 1 [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > The thing is, the idler pulley on the new tensioner is positioned slightly > differently on the tensioner, >snip< Julie, perhaps the pulley itself can be installed in 2 different locations on the bracket?--maybe to allow for more applications? (Just wish I could take a look under the hood.) s >> The thing is, the idler pulley on the new tensioner is positioned >> slightly differently on the tensioner, >snip< > > Julie, perhaps the pulley itself can be installed in 2 different > locations on the bracket?--maybe to allow for more applications? (Just > wish I could take a look under the hood.) s Hi sdlomi. Thanks, but when I pulled the idler pulley off, there was only one bore for the bolt. Oh well! J. Julie, I feel your pain. It may not matter in this case but I have had quality problems with parts I have bought from Advance Auto. I don't know why, but I no longer will buy any parts from them. Another idea- did you replace the belt at the same time as the idler? I bought a serpentine belt one time from my CarQuest dealer. The belt was mfg by a well-know company, but it did not fit on my car. I just could get it on- very similiar to your issue. The solution was to exchange that belt for the "equivalent" belt made by another well-known company (I can't remember the two companies involved- it was 10+ years ago) and it fit perfectly!! A work-around may be to see if you can buy another belt that is an inch or so longer than the specified belt. That way you would not need to replace the idler again. Let us know the outcome. Rich >Hi everyone, hopefully this will be my last "help" thread here for a while! > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > >Julie > Julie, > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > was mfg by a well-know company, but it did not fit on my car. I just > could get it on- very similiar to your issue. Thanks Rich. Yes, actually on the way to Advance Auto, the existing belt got torn due to the looseness. So I bought a new one there, and also put on the spare belt I had in my trunk, right in the parking lot! The solution was to > exchange that belt for the "equivalent" belt made by another > well-known company (I can't remember the two companies involved- it > was 10+ years ago) and it fit perfectly!! Thanks. I compared the length of all the belts, and they appear to be the same. And neither one would fit on the new tensioner. I compared the old Dayco one with the new no-name one I got at the store. I have an old Gates one lying around--maybe I will try that too. > A work-around may be to see if you can buy another belt that is an > inch or so longer than the specified belt. That way you would not > need to replace the idler again. The only thing, is how will the parts person know which belts are just a little longer? Does their computer list belt lengths? Otherwise, it will have to be by trial and error, and they will not be willing to fetch new belts all day to measure the length just for me! Julie >The only thing, is how will the parts person know which belts are just a >little longer? Does their computer list belt lengths? Otherwise, it will >have to be by trial and error, and they will not be willing to fetch new >belts all day to measure the length just for me! They SHOULD have them ordered by length. If it's a standard V-belt, though, you can take it to an industrial parts place and ask them to match you a slightly smaller one. Those guys are much more apt to actually know belts. If it's a weird profile and not a V-belt, you're probably stuck with the auto parts supply. --scott  Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." >>The only thing, is how will the parts person know which belts are just a >>little longer? Does their computer list belt lengths? Otherwise, it will [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > slightly smaller one. Those guys are much more apt to actually know > belts. Thanks Scott! I will try calling then tomorrow, and if Advance does not have it, maybe try NAPA or Carquest, since their parts people know more. Might save me from having to reinstall a GM belt tensioner! Then maybe see if an industrial parts place has one. Do you or anyone else know what they would be listed under in the yellow pages? Machine shops? Industrial supply? Julie > The only thing, is how will the parts person know which belts are just a > little longer? Does their computer list belt lengths? Otherwise, it will > have to be by trial and error, and they will not be willing to fetch new > belts all day to measure the length just for me! > > Julie The numbers on the belts usually mean the length and some other stuff. For example: Belt # 3850 is 85 cm, or 85 mm, or 85 inches length. You have probably already checked: http://www.gates.com/brochure.cfm?brochure=2256&location_id=3487 "« Paul »" <"=?x-user-defined?Q?=AB?= Paul =?x-user-defined?Q?=BB?="@houston.rr.com> wrote in message news:433778DC.7111B648@houston.rr.com... >> The only thing, is how will the parts person know which belts are just a >> little longer? Does their computer list belt lengths? Otherwise, it will [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > You have probably already checked: > http://www.gates.com/brochure.cfm?brochure=2256&location_id=3487 Thanks Paul! I will check this out then. Julie > Nothing. And there is no way to adjust the belt tension on the new tensioner > by removing the pulley, unlike with my old tensioner. Unfortunately it 'really' sounds like you have the wrong part..... Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's >> Nothing. And there is no way to adjust the belt tension on the new >> tensioner >> by removing the pulley, unlike with my old tensioner. > > Unfortunately it 'really' sounds like you have the wrong part..... Thanks Mike! Yeah, I guess I'll be ordering one from the dealer tomorrow morning, and limiting myself to short, beltless trips if necessary. :) Doubt they will have one in stock. > Isn't this ridiculous??!! How do I get the new belt on? I can't > believe this! [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > bolts, or getting pissed that bolts and tools were getting lost in > the engine compartment!! You will probably save yourself a lot of time and grief by just getting the part from GM. I know these are a pain in the a.s to replace (why GM decided that the tensioner ought to be an integral part of the whole bracket is beyond me), but often aftermarket parts cause nothing but trouble. The other option would be to get a different belt that is just slightly longer. Ian >> Isn't this ridiculous??!! How do I get the new belt on? I can't >> believe this! [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > parts cause nothing but trouble. The other option would be to > get a different belt that is just slightly longer. Hi Ian, yes, I have resigned myself to this fact by now. The good thing is I now know all about installing PS pumps and hoses, so it should be easier this time, and a lot quicker. The other thing is that one troublesome PS pump bolt actually fell deep within a recess near the engine mount bracket on my car when I finally got it out, and the magnetic pick-up tool only seems to have pushed it back somewhere invisible and out of reach! It's really lost. The PS pump is actually pretty tight with just the three bolts, so I am hoping the final one in the back is not critical. Besides, not having to deal with this final bolt makes removing and installing the pump a heck of a lot easier. :) J. > >> Isn't this ridiculous??!! How do I get the new belt on? I can't > >> believe this! [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > J. It is likely the pulley won't stay square to the belt with that bolt missing. This would mean the belt either gets fast chewed up or just jumps off. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > Hi Ian, yes, I have resigned myself to this fact by now. The good > thing is I now know all about installing PS pumps and hoses, so it > should be easier this time, and a lot quicker. No doubt. Those ps pump bolts are a pain to get in and out. > The other thing is that one troublesome PS pump bolt actually fell > deep within a recess near the engine mount bracket on my car when I [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > not having to deal with this final bolt makes removing and installing > the pump a heck of a lot easier. :) You would probably have to remove that metal bracket that intersects with the tensioner bracket and also extends down to the front engine mount. Not a fun job just to retrieve one bolt. It would be far easier to simply go get another bolt and washer that will match and install it. The front three bolts will be more then enough to hold it as the same style of pump is used in other GM applications quite successfully with only the three bolts. On the other hand, I'm a big believer that bolts that were "intended" to be there, shouldn't just be left off. Too bad one of us couldn't help you in person. I have the feeling that you might be missing something very simple. Perhaps not, but I've seen it happen numerous times. Ian > not, the serpentine belt will not fit on! I am about 1 inch short of being > able to get the belt over the idler pulley when I turn it clockwise to the > install position. I never had troubles installing the belt on the old > tensioner. The tensioner, or some other pulley, will have a tension adjustment. This could be a screw drive, or simply a bolt. There might be a lock bolt that has to be loosened before the tension adjustment can be done. Many a time, I've found that a new belt is too tight simply because the tension adjustment is way out having been correct for the old belt. You adjust it all the way in , install the new belt, then tension it out so that you have 1/2" play on the longest span. a couple of days later, you check, and it is usually too loose, so you tension it again. This is not for your specific car, but it could be the issue. >> not, the serpentine belt will not fit on! I am about 1 inch short of >> being [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > you check, and it is usually too loose, so you tension it again. This > is not for your specific car, but it could be the issue. Thanks Nexus. I did remove the pulley, but the tension does not seem to be adjustable, unlike with my old belt tensioner. The tension part is sealed once you remove the pulley, so you cannot access the bearings or whatever. No bolt holes or anything else, other than the one for the pulley. Unless I am supposed to somehow manually spin the tensioner clockwise or counter-clockwise a little??? But there are no alignment markings like on my old one. > >> not, the serpentine belt will not fit on! I am about 1 inch short of > >> being > >> able to get the belt over the idler pulley when I turn it clockwise to > >> the > >> install position. I never had troubles installing the belt on the old > >> tensioner. > Thanks Nexus. I did remove the pulley, but the tension does not seem to be > adjustable, unlike with my old belt tensioner. The tension part is sealed > once you remove the pulley, so you cannot access the bearings or whatever. > No bolt holes or anything else, other than the one for the pulley. Unless I > am supposed to somehow manually spin the tensioner clockwise or > counter-clockwise a little??? I assume this is what your tensioner looks like? http://www.mvreader.com/multiview/dayco/graphics/PBT/bge.jpg It looks like the pulley is mounted somewhat off-center on a round area that contains the spring and whatever other mechanism is used. If it was a standard "swinging arm" tensioner like on my Ford, I would just put a wrench on the pulley bolt, swing the tensioner up, slip the belt over the pulley, and release the arm back down onto the belt. Since you have no adjustment points or other obvious areas you could use to move your pulley, I assume the "center bolt" method would rotate the entire assembly that's hiding under the round cover. I would normally try clockwise first, as counter-clockwise would remove the pulley (as you've found), though on my Ford the bolt is tight enough that counter-clockwise is the proper way. >> >> not, the serpentine belt will not fit on! I am about 1 inch short of >> >> being [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > I assume this is what your tensioner looks like? > http://www.mvreader.com/multiview/dayco/graphics/PBT/bge.jpg Yep, that's it! The line from the middle of the pulley to the center of that round part under the pulley points towards noon. While on my old tensioner, that same line points towards 4 o'clock. IOW, the pulley is mounted in a different location on the new tensioner. > It looks like the pulley is mounted somewhat off-center on a round area > that contains the spring and whatever other mechanism is used. If it was > a standard "swinging arm" tensioner like on my Ford, I would just put a > wrench on the pulley bolt, swing the tensioner up, slip the belt over the > pulley, and release the arm back down onto the belt. Yes, mine is the same, except you swing it clockwise, downwards. > Since you have no adjustment points or other obvious areas you could use > to move your pulley, I assume the "center bolt" method would rotate the > entire > assembly that's hiding under the round cover. Yep, it rotates it about 1/4 of a circle clockwise, supposedly enough to get the belt on. > I would normally try clockwise first, as counter-clockwise would remove > the > pulley (as you've found), though on my Ford the bolt is tight enough that > counter-clockwise is the proper way. Thanks for your help MasterBlaster. I just called Carquest, and they have belts about 5 inches longer, which is what I need (costs $26). They knew how to find the length, while Advance Auto had no idea how to do this. Also, my local Chevy dealer stocks new tensioners for $120 (vs. $54 at Advance Auto), so if the new belt does not work, I will get the GM tensioner then. I'd rather do the new belt instead though than pay more than double for a GM tensioner and have to reinstall it all over again. At the same time though I wonder how much longer a GM tensioner would last over the aftermarket one though? Julie Julie >>>>>not, the serpentine belt will not fit on! I am about 1 inch short of >>>>>being [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > > Julie $54 + $26 = $80 for the wrong part plus a workaround, vs $120 from the dealer? No brainer, Julie... > Hi everyone, hopefully this will be my last "help" thread here for a > while! [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > to the install position. I never had troubles installing the belt on the > old tensioner. Ok, this is what I have learned so far. The idler pulley on my car is fed by the PS pump pulley at 8 o'clock and the crankshaft pulley at 6 o'clock (assuming the idler pulley is in the center of the clock), so the longest distance from the middle of these two feeder pulleys to the farthest point on the idler pulley would be from 7 o'clock pointing at 1 o'clock. So rotating an idler pulley, for example, clockwise towards from 1 o'clock to 2 o'clock would make the distance shorter, hence, easier, for the belt to be installed. So I compared the old and new belt tensioners. On the old, GM tensioner, the line from the center bolt of the movable tension part to the bolt for the idler pulley is pointing towards 4 o'clock. So when you move the pulley clockwise towards 5 o'clock to put the belt on, the distance becomes super shorter (the shortest distance would be if it were pointing at 7 o'clock when turned clockwise). But on the new, aftermarket tensioner, the line from the center bolt of the movable tension part to the bolt for the idler pulley is pointing towards 12 o'clock! This means when I turn the idler pulley clockwise to 1 o'clock, the distance actually becomes *longer*, and even harder to put the belt on!! This is unreal!! There is no way to adjust the movable tension part on this new tensioner, unless I were to pry the over off?? But I unbolted the movable tensioner part from the old GM tensioner, and it appears you can only install it one way, assuming the designs are the same. So there would be no way to adjust this on the new tensioner anyway, so this has to be a design flaw for the aftermarket part. Unless I am reading the mechanism on the old tensioner incorrectly? I can't figure out why the old tensioner does not work, or how exactly it is supposed to work in the first place. I think there needs to be a spring to return the pulley when it reaches the farthest clockwise point, but the spring there is not long enough. The official Chevy shop manual has nothing about rebuilding a belt tensioner. So it's either live with the design flaw and find a new belt, or get a GM tensioner and try to return the other tensioner to the store, even though it is all dirty now from the installation! Julie This has gotten way way too complicated. Is the belt correct? Is the replacement part the same? Can you verify from a junk yard model, photo, or something of what is valid anymore? Sounds like two simple things. The belt being tieh right one and routed correctly, and a tensioner being correct. hell, you may as well go back to what you had at this rate. maybe the original problem was misdiagnosed from the start? > > Hi everyone, hopefully this will be my last "help" thread here for a > > while! [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > Julie > This has gotten way way too complicated. > Is the belt correct? Is the replacement part the same? Can you verify from > a > junk yard model, photo, or something of what is valid anymore? Yes, belt is correct. New is the same length as the old one (Dayco), and the old one is the same length as the even older one (Gates)! Placement is the same and matches all diagrams. I have done it numerous times on the old tensioner. The tensioners are different, although this new one is "supposed" to work for my car. > Sounds like two simple things. The belt being tieh right one and routed > correctly, and a tensioner being correct. hell, you may as well go back to > what you had at this rate. I know! :) > maybe the original problem was misdiagnosed from the start? Well, the old tensioner is shot. It no longer holds the tension on the belt. Just pressing the belt causes it to go to the "install" position and the belt becomes loose. I might be able to rebuild it, but I don;t know how, and the manual is silent on the issue. The new tensioner is nice and tight, but the pulley is placed in such a way that you cannot install the belt, and there is no way to adjust it! I blame the aftermarket parts industry for this. :) Julie > So it's either live with the design flaw and find a new belt, or get a GM > tensioner and try to return the other tensioner to the store, even though it > is all dirty now from the installation! > > Julie Take the tensioner back and get the right one ;) >> So it's either live with the design flaw and find a new belt, or get a GM >> tensioner and try to return the other tensioner to the store, even though [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Take the tensioner back and get the right one ;) I'm tempted to, although the cost would be $120-$139, vs. $54 for the aftermarket one. Julie > >> So it's either live with the design flaw and find a new belt, or get a GM > >> tensioner and try to return the other tensioner to the store, even though [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Julie I am thinking the parts store sold you the wrong part. It is even very possibly the wrong part in the right box even. This happens lots. I would take the old one with me and get them to match it up. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's >>>>So it's either live with the design flaw and find a new belt, or get a GM >>>>tensioner and try to return the other tensioner to the store, even though [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's I'm thinking this too. Just go to a different parts store or order one online somewhere ($50 at autozone.com). Save yourself a lot of headaches, and you will have the right part. The store should have no trouble taking back a part that is wrong, even if it's dirty. You have no idea how much admiration I, and I am sure many others, have for you for seeing this through. Most of us men have been through this sort of sh.t before, and it is truly frustrating but there is ALWAYS a solution. If you were near me, I would drive there and, at least, open the beers, or help while you beat this dog to death. Best to you. > Hi everyone, hopefully this will be my last "help" thread here for a while! > I just finished installing the new belt tensioner on my 91 Chevy Cavalier (4 > cylinder). That was supposed to have been the hard part. Now, believe it or > not, the serpentine belt will not fit on! I am about 1 inch short of being > able to get the belt over the idler pulley when I turn it clockwise to the > install position. I never had troubles installing the belt on the old > tensioner. > I tried both the old and the new belt. I even swapped idler pulleys. > Nothing. And there is no way to adjust the belt tension on the new tensioner > by removing the pulley, unlike with my old tensioner. > Until I get this problem solved, I am stranded. Either that, or drive with > no belt and limit myself to short trips (to prevent engine overheating) > while recharging my battery every night (to make up for the alternator not > doing it). > Isn't this ridiculous??!! How do I get the new belt on? I can't believe > this! > The tensioner was from Advance Auto Parts, btw. Made by Dayco. Same one Auto > Zone has. And I really don't want to have to uninstall it again, as it took > me 11 hours the first time! Mostly sitting on the ground exasperated at not > being able to access or align/install bolts, or getting pissed that bolts > and tools were getting lost in the engine compartment!! > :) > Julie One inch sounds like alot for a belt that was threaded around everything properly. Try to get it around everything but the alternator, pull all the slack out of the belt then try to get just a small part of the belt started on the alternator pulley. Turn the alternator and the belt might just pop on. Sometimes you just work on something too long... |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2008 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.