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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / October 2005

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shortage of hydrogen fuels...?

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Ravi - 21 Oct 2005 09:59 GMT
is there no way to extract hydrogen from the pressurized caves in
earth's crust.what is the ambient artificial storage conditions for the
same? how are natural conditions be duplicated?
Don Stauffer - 21 Oct 2005 14:37 GMT
> is there no way to extract hydrogen from the pressurized caves in
> earth's crust.what is the ambient artificial storage conditions for the
> same? how are natural conditions be duplicated?

No.  hydrogen is quite reactive, so most hydrogen on earth is in the
form of compounds.  Only in the uppermost atmosphere, on the verge of
space, do we find any free hydrogen.  And that is at such a low density
that it is not a practical source.

Now, there is a chemist who believes there are vast amounts of methane
(natural gas) in the earth's crust, and that existing natural gas is not
fossil fuel but left over from Earth's creation.  Efforts to find such
primal methane have not been too successful so far.
HLS@nospam.nix - 21 Oct 2005 16:08 GMT
> No.  hydrogen is quite reactive, so most hydrogen on earth is in the
> form of compounds.  Only in the uppermost atmosphere, on the verge of
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> fossil fuel but left over from Earth's creation.  Efforts to find such
> primal methane have not been too successful so far.

There is about one half part per million free hydrogen in the air.  It is
reactive, but not quite as reactive as one might believe.

If you have done the old lab demonstration where you electrolyze
water and catch both gases in a bottle, you will see that the reaction
to form water again is neither immediate nor spontaneous under those
conditions.  (A spark or flame is a good initiator, however.)

Ive never analyzed the reaction byproducts afterwards to see how
much hydrogen and oxygen are left, but imagine someone has, and
I would expect it to be higher than 0.5 ppm hydrogen.  Reactions seldom
go quickly to completion.

The inorganic theory of petroleum has been around since Genesis,
I guess.  I have read it, but am not a believer in it as a serious
source of the earth's hydrocarbons.

There is a fair abundance of methane, both bound as hydrates and
free in oil production operations.  It is made fairly easily by microbes
from some carbonaceous sources.  Crystalline clathrates are all too
abundant in some subsea areas, but mining them for the hydrocarbons
is a touchy procedure.  Sudden decomposition of methane hydrate
can lead to disaster.

If you had a magic filter that could separate the atmospheric hydrogen
from the other components with minimal energy, then cheap energy
could be a reality.  If you could separate gold from seawater in the
same way, jewelry and dental work might be a lot cheaper.

There is just no free lunch, is there, Don?
Don Stauffer - 22 Oct 2005 15:11 GMT
> There is about one half part per million free hydrogen in the air.  It is
> reactive, but not quite as reactive as one might believe.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> to form water again is neither immediate nor spontaneous under those
> conditions.  (A spark or flame is a good initiator, however.)

The reactions are certainly not immediate.  Still, given billions of
years the reactions take place, and hence there is very little
primordial hydrogen left.  What is in the air and upper atmosphere is
continually replentished by the solar wind.  But that is still a very
low concentration.
=AB Paul =BB - 22 Oct 2005 04:25 GMT
> is there no way to extract hydrogen from the pressurized caves in
> earth's crust.what is the ambient artificial storage conditions for the
> same? how are natural conditions be duplicated?

No.  Natural conditions cannot be duplicated.
 
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