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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / November 2005Daniel Stern was right again...
On the recommendation of a poster to a Porsche forum I frequent, I bought some LED dash light bulbs for my 944. Haven't tried those yet but on a whim, I also bought a pair of 1157 style LED bulbs for the '55 coupe, just to see if I could a) get some more light out of my taillights and b) reduce the amount of heat being radiated to my 50 year old taillight lenses. The "bulbs" I bought appeared to be actually fairly well designed, with not only an array of LEDs facing straight back, but also another array behind the circuit board to supposedly fill in to the sides and rear. Well, I put one in the driver's side and left the old 1157 in the passenger side, pulled out the hazard flasher switch, and guess what? Not only is the LED "bulb" dimmer than the 1157 when viewed straight on, but it's even more pathetic when viewed from the side. I will say that they had a nice red color but that's about it. Just had to spend the $10 or so to find out for myself. It really looks like the LED "bulb" would have been acceptable had it used higher output LEDs, but it didn't, so it isn't. If anyone wants 'em to play with, drop me an email... Oh well, 1157s work... nate > Daniel Stern was right again Lies, lies, lies. I'll deny it all. ;-) (N8N: Go check out the barroom brawl I got into with "Boxman" over on sci.engr.lighting, subject "New Audi taillamps"). > On the recommendation of a poster to a Porsche forum I frequent, I > bought some LED dash light bulbs for my 944. Haven't tried those yet [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > straight back, but also another array behind the circuit board to > supposedly fill in to the sides and rear. Yeah...this doesn't work. At least they weren't the super-spendy ones (even those don't work). I'm looking at the rear view photo of your black '55 right now, and I have nothing to judge exact scale, but if you have 6-1/2" of height and 2-1/4" of width behind those lenses, you ought to be able to sneak a Peterson M420R into the taillamp, and that *would* work well: http://www.pmlights.com/products.cfm?cId=1&fId=57&pId=1481 DS > > Daniel Stern was right again > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > DS I'll have to check and see. That's probably a tight fit, if it will work - that car is not as big as it looks. For a scale reference, it has a 120" wheelbase, and is overall a little smaller than my current driver Impala. It's not a HUGE deal and at some point I will probably try to procure some replated taillight housings which may help some in the light department. I think the real problem would be the little retroreflectors which are actually a separate part inside the lens, which limits the volume that could be taken up by a LED array. nate >> I'm looking at the rear view photo of your black '55 right now, and I >> have nothing to judge exact scale, but if you have 6-1/2" of height and >> 2-1/4" of width behind those lenses, you ought to be able to sneak a >> Peterson M420R into the taillamp, and that *would* work well: >> http://www.pmlights.com/products.cfm?cId=1&fId=57&pId=1481 > I think the real problem would be the little retroreflectors which are > actually a separate part inside the lens Retroreflectors are generally easy to relocate. DS > >> I'm looking at the rear view photo of your black '55 right now, and I > >> have nothing to judge exact scale, but if you have 6-1/2" of height and [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > DS Oh, I suppose I should explain what my eventual goal was if this system worked out... the front turn signal/park light bulbs are an odd format, they look like 1157s but the pins in the base are not offset. Therefore I have to use an odd bulb, can't remember the number off the top of my head, but they are not as bright - I think 24cd vs. 32cd? Also they are not available in amber. If my test with the red LEDs worked OK I was going to buy a pair of the amber ones and modify them to fit into the stock sockets (changing the sockets is not an option, they are permanently pressed/crimped onto a very rare, expensive, hard to find in good condition chromed potmetal casting and I just don't want to mess with them) so I could have brighter, amber lights in the front. I guess I will just have to hope that people continue to recognize a flashing white light as a front directional signal... of course with all the ricerz using "super white," green, blue, purple, whatever is on sale at Crap Boyz this week bulbs behind their clear lenses, it will still be "current." nate > the front turn signal/park light bulbs are an odd format, they look like > 1157s but the pins in the base are not offset. Therefore I have to use > an odd bulb, can't remember the number off the top of my head, but they > are not as bright - I think 24cd vs. 32cd? I've got the full-intensity units, with the non-offset pins, in 12v. Can get 'em in 24v. Can't get 'em in 6v. Send me an e-mail. > Also they are not available in amber. I guess I will just have to hope > that people continue to recognize a flashing white light as a front > directional signal. Already toldjya how to fix this cheaply, reversibly and non-invasively! DS >>>>I'm looking at the rear view photo of your black '55 right now, and I >>>>have nothing to judge exact scale, but if you have 6-1/2" of height and [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > want to mess with them) so I could have brighter, amber lights in the > front. If the area behind the bulb isn't shiny you could try spraying it with chrome spray or something. Should increase the amount of light shining through the taillight. > I guess I will just have to hope that people continue to recognize a > flashing white light as a front directional signal... of course with > all the ricerz using "super white," green, blue, purple, whatever is on > sale at Crap Boyz this week bulbs behind their clear lenses, it will > still be "current." LOL. I've never had any problems with the white front turn signals on my Camaro. If people see something flashing they'll figure out what it is. > nate Ulf > >> I'm looking at the rear view photo of your black '55 right now, and I > >> have nothing to judge exact scale, but if you have 6-1/2" of height and [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > DS True, but I don't want to end up with separate reflectors on the outside of the vehicle. I would like to maintain a "clean" appearance. I have to admit that I forgot to measure the taillights yesterday when I was working on it, I was too busy servicing yet another defrost blower motor for it... the one that I put in initially worked for a while and then developed a dead short the first time I actually wanted to use it to clear the windshield. (D'oh!) One of these days I'm going to actually have to start buying new motors for this stuff... seems like every single one in the parts stash is seized to one or the other of the bushings and I've only got maybe a 50% success rate getting the armature out without popping one of the bushings out of the pressed-in retainer (which destroys that end of the housing for all intents and purposes) nate > I'm looking at the rear view photo of your black '55 right now, and I > have nothing to judge exact scale, but if you have 6-1/2" of height and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > DS And moreover, that would almost CERTAINLY work to fix the dim (and dimmer as they age) taillamps on my 73 Satellite... it would easily fit behind the existing lenses. The last time I looded at similar lamps, they only were available with the mounting flane, and I didn't want to risk the $$ for a part I'd have to modify heavily and it might still not work. >> http://www.pmlights.com/products.cfm?cId=1&fId=57&pId=1481 > And moreover, that would almost CERTAINLY work to fix the dim (and > dimmer as they age) taillamps on my 73 Satellite... it would easily fit > behind the existing lenses. The last time I looded at similar lamps, > they only were available with the mounting flange, Ya musta not looked hard enough...these have been available in grommet-mount for a LONNNG time, right from the gitgo. Use these specific ones, or units with a similarly large number of emitters from Truck-Lite. Don't substitute no-name pieces or the name-brand units with fewer emitters. And despite what you might read in certain magazines, DON'T crack the units open, extract the circuit board and install just the board with emitters behind the factory lenses! DS > name-brand units with fewer emitters. And despite what you might read in > certain magazines, DON'T crack the units open, extract the circuit board > and install just the board with emitters behind the factory lenses! The word "duh" comes to mind. Any twit can get printed in a magazine these days- in fact I think critical review is stronger on Usenet now :-p (that's either a joke or a really bad sign, and I'm not sure which). I was reading the most god-awful article on retrofitting R-12 AC systems with R-134a in a certain vintage car magazine, by a certain well-known author just last week. I was, frankly, appalled. >> And despite what you might read in certain magazines, DON'T crack the >> units open, extract the circuit board and install just the board with >> emitters behind the factory lenses! > > The word "duh" comes to mind. Well, you already have a fairly healthy dislike for the particular individual and Mopar magazine involved, but I'll let you figure it the rest of the way out. > I was reading the most god-awful article on retrofitting R-12 AC systems > with R-134a in a certain vintage car magazine, by a certain well-known > author just last week. I was, frankly, appalled. Oh, great, just what we need...another halfassed article on how to do a halfassed retrofit. >>> And despite what you might read in certain magazines, DON'T crack the >>> units open, extract the circuit board and install just the board with [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > individual and Mopar magazine involved, but I'll let you figure it the > rest of the way out. Oh, say it aint so! I actually like the magazine and the individual much of the time, but sometimes I just wanna choke 'im. ;-) > Oh, great, just what we need...another halfassed article on how to do a > halfassed retrofit. And it didn't *need* to be. Given the magazine and the author (hint: my name is Earl), I was doubly appalled. Damn! I hate it when that happens. > On the recommendation of a poster to a Porsche forum I frequent, I > bought some LED dash light bulbs for my 944. Haven't tried those yet [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > dimmer than the 1157 when viewed straight on, but it's even more > pathetic when viewed from the side. I did the same thing in a 928 with a bunch of LEDs, a bulb socket and some home brewed PC boards. Even when I managed to get on-axis brightness to match the incandescent lamp, off axis it was much worse. I tried several configurations of LEDs. Conclusion: LED fixtures work well only when the optics are designed for them from the ground up.  SignaturePaul Hovnanian mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com ------------------------------------------------------------------ I could get a new lease on life but I need the first and last month in advance. I *am* considering augmenting the incandescent bulb in my third brake light, the center high mounted stop lamp or whatever they call it, with an LED replacement, just to get the quicker risetime in city traffic. Not replacing what's there now, supplementing it. Sadly, where I live, having some sort of working bulb in every position, never mind reaching for the switch when it gets dark or the weather's bad, makes you an honorary captain in the Junior Safety Patrol... Do people think the things are supposed to last for the lifetime of the car, or what? --Joe > I *am* considering augmenting the incandescent bulb in my third brake > light, the center high mounted stop lamp or whatever they call it, with [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > --Joe Apparently. Lately I've noticed a spate of vehicles running around with only one functional brake light (out of three or more) or even none at all. Makes driving in stop and go traffic just that much more interesting. Odd thing is, this is mostly late model vehicles. One nice thing about older vehicles that use the same bulb for brake lights and directionals is that you always know immediately when one filament is gone, at least the first time you signal a turn in that direction. Well, ASSuming that you use the directionals, that is. Downside: optional backup lights. And I don't really want to mount those ugly assed chrome plated things on my trunk lid, either. Maybe something discreetly mounted under the rear bumper? nate > Downside: optional backup lights. And I don't really want to mount > those ugly assed chrome plated things on my trunk lid, either. Maybe > something discreetly mounted under the rear bumper? My old Wagoneer, in many ways a decently thought out off-road vehicle, had backup lights about the size and actual emitted brightness of an army-surplus GI flashlight. They are fine as a warning to others that you are in Reverse, but about as useful as a lit cigarette when it comes to seeing what you are about to back into or over the edge of on a dark night. I found a nice place out of harm's way underneath the car and a bit forward of the rear bumper and hung a boat/farm auxiliary lamp there -- one of the hemispherical chrome jobbies (you've seen 'em) a few inches in diameter that have a sealed beam incandescent light and cast a nice wide beam but are not so bright as to menace other drivers. Over the years, I saw that this was a "great minds think alike" modification for that model. I'm a bit short on Studebakers but probably you can find some similar hidey-hole that doesn't involve drilling anything expensive or highly visible (actually, you might be able to do a complete glue-up mounting, with Shoe Goo or something of that nature) and gives you a decent place to run a wire through a grommetted hole. --Joe > My old Wagoneer, in many ways a decently thought out off-road vehicle, > had backup lights about the size and actual emitted brightness of an > army-surplus GI flashlight. Yep...the little 1/2" high by 1-1/2" wide slits. > as useful as a lit cigarette when it comes to seeing what you are about > to back into or over the edge of on a dark night. True. Assuming you had a post-'83 unit with the vertical-style lamps (not the '63-'82 wraparound units), the export lamp was much better thought out. Not only did it have a real, working backup light, but it had an amber turn blinker, too. > Apparently. Lately I've noticed a spate of vehicles running around with > only one functional brake light (out of three or more) or even none at > all. Odd thing is, this is mostly late model vehicles. Lots of them are Chevrolet/GMC full-sized vans, y'notice? GM thinks it's funny to put their voltage regulator setpoints way too high at 15+. This eats bulbs like popcorn. Their "solution"? Reduce the setpoint to where it should be? No, design and spec new nonstandard bulbs rated at 14v instead of 12.8. > One nice thing about older vehicles that use the same bulb for brake > lights and directionals is that you always know immediately when one > filament is gone, at least the first time you signal a turn in that > direction. Well, ASSuming that you use the directionals, that is. ...and ASSuming you notice or care that the signals flash at a different rate (or not at all). > > Apparently. Lately I've noticed a spate of vehicles running around with > > only one functional brake light (out of three or more) or even none at [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > should be? No, design and spec new nonstandard bulbs rated at 14v instead > of 12.8. Honestly, I can't say that I've noticed a pattern, but I haven't been paying that much attention. Yesterday's sighting was a Toyota minivan, are they doing the same thing? How does this work without cooking the battery, anyway? I thought that ideal voltage for proper battery charge was somewhere between 13.7 and 14.7 volts? What effect does this have on the electronics? Sounds to me like a solution looking for a problem, really... > > One nice thing about older vehicles that use the same bulb for brake > > lights and directionals is that you always know immediately when one [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > ...and ASSuming you notice or care that the signals flash at a different > rate (or not at all). well, yeah... nate >> Apparently. Lately I've noticed a spate of vehicles running around >> with only one functional brake light (out of three or more) or even >> none at all. Odd thing is, this is mostly late model vehicles. > > Lots of them are Chevrolet/GMC full-sized vans, y'notice? A fair number, but mostly pickup DRLs (and has been for a number of years because of their ridiculous voltage setting) but lately I've seen a rash of dead indicator lamps on a bunch of European imports- lots of Volvos, BMWs, and Benzes. Saabs I could account for just because they're Chevies with a Swedish name now, but Volvos? BMWs? Are thy all sourcing OEM bulbs from China? :-p >> Lots of them are Chevrolet/GMC full-sized vans, y'notice? > > A fair number, but mostly pickup DRLs (and has been for a number of years > because of their ridiculous voltage setting) ...and stupid bulb choice for the task, yes. > but lately I've seen a rash of dead indicator lamps on a bunch of > European imports- lots of Volvos, BMWs, and Benzes. Saabs I could > account for just because they're Chevies with a Swedish name now, but > Volvos? BMWs? Are thy all sourcing OEM bulbs from China? Naw, it's more complicated than that. I don't see an especially large number of burnouts on Euro imports, what I do see is clear-lens/amber-bulb turn signals faded/baked to a brownish white. Those amber bulbs used to be made with amber glass, which was made with Cadmium. Various countries and companies have enacted "no Cadmium" laws and policies, so now those bulbs are plain glass, dip-coated in paint that has a hard time coping with the thermal cycling. >> but lately I've seen a rash of dead indicator lamps on a bunch of >> European imports- lots of Volvos, BMWs, and Benzes. Saabs I could [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > number of burnouts on Euro imports, what I do see is > clear-lens/amber-bulb turn signals faded/baked to a brownish white. Haven't noticed that. What I'm seeing is a disproportionate number of dead brake lamps, not turn signals so much. And its mostly red lens and presumably clear bulb implementations. Saw another dead one on a Volvo driving home yesterday. |
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