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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / November 2005Oil filer: I just realized...
... my GM shop manual specifies a torque of 13 lb. ft. for the oil filer. But for the last 25 oil changes I have done, I have never torqued the filter. I just simply screwed it on 3/4 to 1 full turn after the gasket made contact with the mating surface. My oil filter is very hard to access if you don't remove the splash guard. So I can never use an oil filter turning cap or metal strap on remover or the like to uninstall it. I have this device that has a cloth strap which loops over the filter like a belt, and then there is this 1/2" square metal rectangular prism attached to that. You put a 1/2" ratchet in it and turn it to get it off. So will this device interfere with a correct torque? Julie 25 changes without a problem is a good track record, Julie. I never use a torque wrench. And in more than 45 years, I have never had a filter problem related to tightening. But to answer your question, if you are applying a torque wrench to the sidesocket of a belt type wrench, you will not get the correct torque. > 25 changes without a problem is a good track record, Julie. > I never use a torque wrench. And in more than 45 years, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > to the sidesocket of a belt type wrench, you will not get the > correct torque. Thanks so much! I didn't think it was too important, but then why does the official GM manual specify torques for almost everything, even bolts for splash guards!! It's insane. :) There's even a 15 page section on how to remove debris from radiator fins, remove and repair them (didn't know this was even possible), and fix radiators! Personally, I have a radiator with a lifetime warranty, so when it goes bad, I just get a new one. Julie > why does the official GM manual specify torques for almost everything, > even bolts for splash guards!! It's insane. :) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > radiators! Personally, I have a radiator with a lifetime warranty, so when > it goes bad, I just get a new one. Would you prefer the GM manual to be a lot more like a Haynes or Chilton? ;) I paid $140 for a brand new factory manual for my Nissan, but it's a greater bargain than the Haynes book I can get free from the library. >> why does the official GM manual specify torques for almost everything, >> even bolts for splash guards!! It's insane. :) [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > I paid $140 for a brand new factory manual for my Nissan, but it's a > greater bargain than the Haynes book I can get free from the library. You are right. I do love the GM shop manual. Chiltons and Haynes are horrid, very bad. I got it for $50 on eBay. Well worth the money. Julie > > I paid $140 for a brand new factory manual for my Nissan, but it's a > > greater bargain than the Haynes book I can get free from the library. > > You are right. I do love the GM shop manual. Chiltons and Haynes are horrid, > very bad. I got it for $50 on eBay. Well worth the money. $50 is a bargain. My father had the factory manuals for every car he ever owned and a few that his parents owned, but one day decided to toss them in the trash (the manuals, not his parents). He could have made more by selling the manuals on eBay than what they cost new, something he's mentioned more than a few times. > I usually can turn my filters up to 1-1/4 (or even 1-1/2) turns. I've learned that tightening gaskets too much can actually make them leak. I had a power steering hose joint that would always start spraying fluid within a day, until I bought a crow's foot wrench so I could use a borrowed 1/4" torque wrench on it. OTOH I remember seeing a bulletin on a garage wall warning to tighten the oil filter of a certain type of car 1.5 turns. >>25 changes without a problem is a good track record, Julie. >>I never use a torque wrench. And in more than 45 years, [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Julie Yes, shop manuals rock for that exact reason - they are over the top. However, some times you don't need to really worry about exact torque - snug works just fine. Oil filters, license plate bolts. Also, if the bolt is dirty and oily and the factory reading may be for a clean dry bolt... then just go with tight. I use my torque wrench a lot when working on engines, but don't need it when putting door panels back on... despite it being 45 inch-pounds for the door panel trim screws. that's nice to know, but more relevant for setting up an assembly line air gun on a robot. Ray >Thanks so much! I didn't think it was too important, but then why does the >official GM manual specify torques for almost everything, even bolts for >splash guards!! It's insane. :) For splash guard bolts it is probably to keep you from over tightening them. >There's even a 15 page section on how to remove debris from radiator fins, >remove and repair them (didn't know this was even possible), and fix >radiators! Personally, I have a radiator with a lifetime warranty, so when >it goes bad, I just get a new one. It's good to know that if you needed to, there is a way to prolong the life of your radiator. ------------- Alex You would perhaps be surprised that may old time mechanics never use a torque wrench even for head gaskets and never have problems. > You would perhaps be surprised that may old time mechanics never use a > torque wrench even for head gaskets and never have problems. Wow! I was even considering buying those super expensive torque limiters to prevent over-torquing! But you really do need a torque wrench for the tranny oil pan. I over-torqued the bolts by about 36-48 lb. in. with my 1/2" torque wrench (before I had invested in a 1/4" torque wrench), and had a leak at the gasket the next day. I did this two more times with new gaskets, and also had leaks within a week. I finally just did them hand tight plus a little bit more, and then it was ok, and also stopped using RTV sealant in addition to the gasket (I had to use dental floss instead then, to hold the gasket in place while I mounted the pan and bolts). But that 1/4" torque wrench I did eventually buy was a great investment (actually, only cost $14.99 at Harbor Freight). I will eventually need a 3/4" torque wrench, since one of my car bolts requires a torque of around 176 lb. ft. (the one that the strut tower in place). But those are insanely expensive, even at Harbor Freight. Julie > You would perhaps be surprised that may old time mechanics never use a > torque wrench even for head gaskets and never have problems. True, an experienced wrench hand can be amazingly accurate. But I'll also be that lot of that had to do with old-time engines that were REALLY overbuilt. I once discovered that a Mopar 383 that I'd been running for *years* had two loose head bolts on the same head, and had absolutely no head gasket issues. Of course it seals the head to the block with 17 head bolts, whereas most newer v8s use only 10 or 12. And iron heads are more forgiving than aluminum heads. >You would perhaps be surprised that may old time mechanics never use a >torque wrench even for head gaskets and never have problems. I believe it. In the old days head gaskets were replaced more frequently. I know I would not do a head gasket replacement without a torque wrench. It's not worth the risk. ---------------- Alex > >You would perhaps be surprised that may old time mechanics never use a > >torque wrench even for head gaskets and never have problems. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > It's not worth the risk. > ---------------- Actually, assembly line mechanics for Ford and others did not use torque wrenches to assemble the engines in times past. It was pure feel. Now, in those days engines were high mileage at 40,000 and junkers at 60,000. The use of the torque wrench alone didn't make all the difference. It was metallurgy, casting techniques, machining technology, and a lot of other thing.s > You would perhaps be surprised that may old time mechanics never use a > torque wrench even for head gaskets and never have problems. Some of the worst such mechanics still think piston rings should be seated by pouring cleanser down the intake, or they pierce ignition wires to read the voltages or connect the timing light. > ... my GM shop manual specifies a torque of 13 lb. ft. for the oil filer. > But for the last 25 oil changes I have done, I have never torqued the > filter. I just simply screwed it on 3/4 to 1 full turn after the gasket made > contact with the mating surface. "about as tight as you can get it with your bare hands" is usually about right. I got 3/4 of a turn on the last oil filter I did (earlier today, I changed the oil on the Porsche.) If you read the carton your new oil filter comes in it likely specifies the same thing (3/4 of a turn after contact.) Only thing to remember is to wipe a little clean oil over the gasket before installing. > My oil filter is very hard to access if you don't remove the splash guard. > So I can never use an oil filter turning cap or metal strap on remover or [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > So will this device interfere with a correct torque? Yup, a torque wrench is only accurate when the square drive is in the center of whatever fastener of which you're measuring the torque. So it's useless to you here unless you add in the extra distance and derate accordingly; alternately see above. nate >> ... my GM shop manual specifies a torque of 13 lb. ft. for the oil filer. >> But for the last 25 oil changes I have done, I have never torqued the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > the same thing (3/4 of a turn after contact.) Only thing to remember > is to wipe a little clean oil over the gasket before installing. Thanks Nate. I usually can turn my filters up to 1-1/4 (or even 1-1/2) turns. But then again, it's really hard to see exactly when the gasket touches the mating surface since there is that bead of new oil on it, so it might be less actually. I never go more than 1 full turn. Julie July, If you dont mind my asking, what part of the USA do you live in? >... my GM shop manual specifies a torque of 13 lb. ft. for the oil filer. >But for the last 25 oil changes I have done, I have never torqued the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >So will this device interfere with a correct torque? If your filter is not leaking, then it proves the method you are using is fine. What you do describes what I have done for many years. I have never had a filter leak. ------------- Alex > If your filter is not leaking, then it proves the method you are using > is fine. What you do describes what I have done for many years. I have > never had a filter leak. > ------------- > Alex Nor have I...at least not for that reason. I screwed up once and didn't watch what I was doing, and left the gasket from the old filter stuck to the filter fitting. Contrary to intuition, two gaskets does not make a better seal ;>) |
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