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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / December 2005Damaged new CAT Converter in 3 weeks? (due to low octane gas ??)
Will much appreciate an informed opinion(s) on the following: Re: VW Jetta-91 I had a new CAT installed 3 weeks ago, but took it back last week due to toxic smell coming inside the cabin. My mechanic (same guy that installed it) tells me that the CAT is damaged, and that's because I've used low octane (standard unleaded gas !) . The parts supplier (Northside Imports-NY) will not replace it, or just refund half the cost, 'because' the CAT is damaged due to low octane gas. 1) how low octane is 87 compared to 93, to make a difference? 2) Is this an acceptable claim form the auto parts seller? the whole thing doesn't make sense to me, but I am no expert and have no facts to counter these allegations. Will very much appreciate any tech. info., facts, 'rules of thumb' to help build an argument in this sutuation. > 1) how low octane is 87 compared to 93, to make a difference? > 2) Is this an acceptable claim form the auto parts seller? > > the whole thing doesn't make sense to me, but I am no expert and have > no facts to counter these allegations. It possible, but not probable. I'd say you have something off causing fuel to not burn, which will ruin a cat. There are other possibilities.  Signatureremove MYSHOES to email Does your car specify 93 octane only? Probably not unless it is a very high performance engine. Your mechanic is trying to cover his a.s for not fixing the real problem in the first place. Take the car to a reputable mechanic and have it fixed correctly as the next converter will go the same way. Bad EGR, Bad O2 sensor, leaking injectors, etc cause too much unburned fuel to be dumped in the exhaust and will kill the converter in short time... > Will much appreciate an informed opinion(s) on the following: > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Will very much appreciate any tech. info., facts, 'rules of thumb' to > help build an argument in this sutuation. Well, my 1986 Jeep CJ7 will not run for crap on 87 octane. It runs at least 1/3 rich I figure because I get at least 1/3 less gas mileage than when I use the same brand at 93 or even 92 octane. I do 'not' have a knock sensor in the circuit. I go from 350 miles per tank to 250 or less, it bogs on the highway, idles rough, blows out black crap and smells bad. With only 800 miles of abuse like that, I would still put high test in really quick and run a fast hard and hot couple tanks through. The cat might not be totally dead, just flooded out. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/index.html?id=2120343242 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) > Will much appreciate an informed opinion(s) on the following: > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Will very much appreciate any tech. info., facts, 'rules of thumb' to > help build an argument in this sutuation. > The cat might not be totally dead, just flooded out. Flooded out? Signatureremove MYSHOES to email > > The cat might not be totally dead, just flooded out. > > Flooded out? Overloaded with hydrocarbons. I doubt seriously...would be almost willing to underwrite...that the low octane story is total bullshit...a.s covering. Agreed, low octane in itself will never kill a cat. conv. >> On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 18:38:24 -0500 Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > octane story is total > bullshit...a.s covering. > > The cat might not be totally dead, just flooded out. > > Flooded out? > > -- Too many HC's makes it smell like rotten eggs. Do that for too long and you can kill a cat from what I have read and heard. The components get 'flooded out'. Back in the carb days when you got the bad smell you could get backfires that would come out the tailpipe as flame if the choke or float messed up. If you got it fixed in reasonable time, it didn't usually mean you had to change the cat. The cat works best really hot, so a high or 'proper' octane, high rpm run might just clean it out. I would keep it in one gear lower than normal for the speed for a couple tanks of gas. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/index.html?id=2120343242 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) > Too many HC's makes it smell like rotten eggs. Do that for too long and > you can kill a cat from what I have read and heard. The components get > 'flooded out'. The rotten egg smell comes from sulphur, more specifically SO2 If I recall correctly. > Back in the carb days when you got the bad smell you could get backfires > that would come out the tailpipe as flame if the choke or float messed > up. A backfire comes out of the carburetor, which can be quite alarming if you happen to be working on the carburetor at the time. SignatureMike Walsh West Palm Beach, Florida, U.S.A. out'. > The rotten egg smell comes from sulphur, more specifically SO2 If I recall correctly. Not quite...the rotten egg smell comes from hydrogen sulfide (H2S), mercaptans or disulfides. Not chemically near SO2. Sulfur is the root , but a reducing condition is the cause...catalytic convertors normally work in the oxidizing mode, but when overloaded with hydrocarbons, the reduced stinky gases (H2S) may be formed. SO2 is a very acrid gas, reminiscent of freshly struck matches. Smells nothing like rotten eggs. > > Too many HC's makes it smell like rotten eggs. Do that for too long and > > you can kill a cat from what I have read and heard. The components get > > 'flooded out'. > > The rotten egg smell comes from sulphur, more specifically SO2 If I recall correctly. That is 'brimstone' smell I think, the rotted egg smell is more. > > Back in the carb days when you got the bad smell you could get backfires > > that would come out the tailpipe as flame if the choke or float messed > > up. > > A backfire comes out of the carburetor, which can be quite alarming if you happen to be working on the carburetor at the time. A backfire is firing on the wrong side of a valve and can happen on either the intake or exhaust valve as far as I have seen over the years. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/index.html?id=2120343242 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) >> > The cat might not be totally dead, just flooded out. >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Mike Why not try Mike's suggestion--sounds logical plus it seems you have nothing to lose at this point. But also try to find what *upstream* component(s) is causing the cat problem. Luck, s Hey, how long did his first converter last on the same gas he was probably using? If he used 87 all along for 130,000 miles or something and now needed a converter, then octane was not the culprit on the new converter. >Will much appreciate an informed opinion(s) on the following: >Re: VW Jetta-91 [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >Will very much appreciate any tech. info., facts, 'rules of thumb' to >help build an argument in this sutuation. Something fishy going on here. Low octane by itself will not ruin an catalytic convertor. ------------ Alex |
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