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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / November 2005GM 2.8L 60 degree V6: One Bad Lifter, Should I replace all of them?
The engine is in an 1990 Isuzu Trooper II. Removed all the hydralic lifters to track down the clattering noise, and found the culprit. It was only one bad lifter out of twelve. The others look perfect. The push rods look straight, and the rocker arms are all good. The one bad lifter is damaged on the bottom of the lifter where it makes contact with the cam shaft lobe. Pretty beat up. It seems that the engineers would make the camshaft very strong, and make the lifters somewhat weaker so as to not damage the cam shaft if something in the valve train broke, but I don't know. Do you think the cam shaft is also damaged? So should I replace all of the lifters? Thanks, Cy > The engine is in an 1990 Isuzu Trooper II. > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Cy I would. How much for a set of lifters? $20? Versus having to do all of that work again? Now for what I think may be bad news - you should use a dial indicator and measure the lift on a couple of lobes (intake and exhaust) - I have a bad feeling you've got a flat cam lobe. Ray Agreed on the cam. >> The engine is in an 1990 Isuzu Trooper II. >> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Ray > The engine is in an 1990 Isuzu Trooper II. > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > So should I replace all of the lifters? I'd get one of these cam/lifter kits: http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/catalog.php?carcode=1177051&parttype=5313 Curious about your mileage - I have the same vehicle now with ~195,000 miles and she still runs great.  Signatureremove MYSHOES to email > Do you think the cam shaft is >also damaged? I would be amazed if it wasn't damaged >So should I replace all of the lifters? I would either replace the one lifter and pray for the best or go ahead and bite the bullet and replace the cam and all the lifters. If you do make sure you are aware of and follow the proper break in procedure for the new cam. Steve B. I agree with the other guys and while your at it you may want to drop the oilpan to clean all the metal from around oilpump pickup from the cam regrinding operation. I've seen this on a few Chevys I've owned over the years where the previous owners tried to get the lifters to quiet down. Sorry for the bad news, but hey the good news is you may find a after market cam that will give you a little better low-end. Oh! by the way replace the chain too. Rick > I agree with the other guys and while your at it you may want to drop > the oilpan to clean all the metal from around oilpump pickup from the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > find a after market cam that will give you a little better low-end. Oh! > by the way replace the chain too. One of the kits in my URL listing shows a cam/lifter/timing kit too. A sidenote: at 175,000 miles, I decided, for piece of mind, that I would spend a Saturday replacing the timing chain/gears on that same year engine (1990 Trooper/GM v6). The original is an all-steel combination. The original was as good a shape as the brand new unit I had just purchased. I put the new one in anyway, to convince myself the effort was worth it :)) Signatureremove MYSHOES to email > The engine is in an 1990 Isuzu Trooper II. > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Cy Lifters are mated to their cam lobe for life at break in. This means that a replacement lifter has a very high chance of failure. If you want a decent chance of this engine lasting much longer you need to replace the cam along with all the lifters. Parts for that should run less than $300 for a cam and lifter set plus a timing chain set and damper. Unfortunately, you'll need to pull the motor to replace the cam. You can, of course, replace just the one lifter, but if and when it fails prematurely it will probably be time to put a new long block in. JazzMan Signature********************************************************** Please reply to jsavage"at"airmail.net. Curse those darned bulk e-mailers! ********************************************************** "Rats and roaches live by competition under the laws of supply and demand. It is the privilege of human beings to live under the laws of justice and mercy." - Wendell Berry ********************************************************** > Unfortunately, you'll need to pull the motor to replace the > cam. You can, of course, replace just the one lifter, but if > and when it fails prematurely it will probably be time to put > a new long block in. Not me :) On this vehicle, I'd rather yank the radiator and front grill - that should allow the cam to come out. Signatureremove MYSHOES to email > > Unfortunately, you'll need to pull the motor to replace the > > cam. You can, of course, replace just the one lifter, but if [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > -- > remove MYSHOES to email LOL! Forgot, longitudinal mount. My experience with this engine is in transverse applications, on those the strut tower is smack dab in the way. Of course, if it were me I'd be looking to put a 90-95 F-body (Firebird, Camaro) 3.4 motor in it instead of messing with the underpowered 2.8. JazzMan Signature********************************************************** Please reply to jsavage"at"airmail.net. Curse those darned bulk e-mailers! ********************************************************** "Rats and roaches live by competition under the laws of supply and demand. It is the privilege of human beings to live under the laws of justice and mercy." - Wendell Berry ********************************************************** > > Not me :) On this vehicle, I'd rather yank the radiator > > and front grill - that should allow the cam to come out. > LOL! > > Forgot, longitudinal mount. My experience with this engine is > in transverse applications, on those the strut tower is smack > dab in the way. Well, I'll give ya that - I assume this engine is NOT a transverse mount. If it is transverse mount, then I take back my statement :) I only make the statement because I have a '90 Trooper with a V6 and mine is the regular-ol-longitudinal-mount-Chevy-V6. > Of course, if it were me I'd be looking to put a 90-95 F-body > (Firebird, Camaro) 3.4 motor in it instead of messing with the > underpowered 2.8. Well, a Trooper is, unfortunately, not an F-Body :)) I do have an F-Body, but I'd still have to disagree - If I had a 2.8 in it, I'd be putting a 350 V8 in it instead ! Signatureremove MYSHOES to email > > Of course, if it were me I'd be looking to put a 90-95 F-body > > (Firebird, Camaro) 3.4 motor in it instead of messing with the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I do have an F-Body, but I'd still have to disagree - If I had > a 2.8 in it, I'd be putting a 350 V8 in it instead ! The 3.4 from the '90-95 F-bodies will bolt right up to the tranny and motor mounts of the Isuzu. Swap in the long block, keep the Isuzu intake and exhaust, should be fairly easy to do for a good boost of low end torque. JazzMan Signature********************************************************** Please reply to jsavage"at"airmail.net. Curse those darned bulk e-mailers! ********************************************************** "Rats and roaches live by competition under the laws of supply and demand. It is the privilege of human beings to live under the laws of justice and mercy." - Wendell Berry ********************************************************** > > I do have an F-Body, but I'd still have to disagree - If I had > > a 2.8 in it, I'd be putting a 350 V8 in it instead ! [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > long block, keep the Isuzu intake and exhaust, should be > fairly easy to do for a good boost of low end torque. I've heard conflicting reports about this, as I've considered doing this - have you seen this done before? I have the 4WD version. Signatureremove MYSHOES to email > > > I do have an F-Body, but I'd still have to disagree - If I had > > > a 2.8 in it, I'd be putting a 350 V8 in it instead ! [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > -- > remove MYSHOES to email All Isuzu troopers were 4WD through 2000, apparently. Here's a faq: http://totalescape.com/Amigo/text/trooperFAQ.html It mentions that you have to relocate the starter, that's exactly what has to be done for the 3.4 Fiero swap (same motor originally came in them as the Isuzu 2.8). Rodney Dickman sells a jig kit to drill and tap the holes on the other side of the block: http://www.rodneydickman.com Look under ENGINE/ 3.4 ENGINE SWAP PARTS. Any competent machine shop can also do this trivial operation. Another link: http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/Discus/messages/653/1126.html?964410114 Do some googling (hah, that's now an official verb!) for the words "3.4 Isuzu swap" for more hits. The key to the ease of this swap is that you keep all of the stock Isuzu intake, injection, and exhaust system, so no wiring or other mods need to be done. You take the long block, which is the heads and block of the 3.4 and install all of the Isuzu outside stuff like covers, pans, accessories, etc. JazzMan Signature********************************************************** Please reply to jsavage"at"airmail.net. Curse those darned bulk e-mailers! ********************************************************** "Rats and roaches live by competition under the laws of supply and demand. It is the privilege of human beings to live under the laws of justice and mercy." - Wendell Berry ********************************************************** [snipped good info] > The key to the ease of this swap is that you keep all of the > stock Isuzu intake, injection, and exhaust system, so no > wiring or other mods need to be done. You take the long block, > which is the heads and block of the 3.4 and install all of the > Isuzu outside stuff like covers, pans, accessories, etc. This is great info, Jazzman, thanks! My past googles (beyond six months ago) didnt reveal too much about the swap, with the exception of the "GM 60° V6 Power Tricks" I've got bookmarked and which was mentioned in another reply-post in this thread. I'll investigate this further! Signatureremove MYSHOES to email >>>I do have an F-Body, but I'd still have to disagree - If I had >>>a 2.8 in it, I'd be putting a 350 V8 in it instead ! [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I've heard conflicting reports about this, as I've considered doing > this - have you seen this done before? I have the 4WD version. and fwiw, not all 2.8's are the same. My uncle wanted the 2.8 from my 86 Jimmy for his 85 S10. (my engine may be an 87 vintage.) the oil pans didn't interchange (2wd and 4wd), the water pump (serpentine vs non serpentine) didn't, and supposedly the timing cover didn't either! Ray > >>>I do have an F-Body, but I'd still have to disagree - If I had > >>>a 2.8 in it, I'd be putting a 350 V8 in it instead ! [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > (serpentine vs non serpentine) didn't, and supposedly the timing cover > didn't either! That's relatively correct. When doing this swap, only the long block is swapped, all of the accessories like the water pump and engine bracketry from the original motor are kept. The important thing is that the F-body 3.4 of that year range is the iron-head variant. Many of the larger displacement 60° V6 engines have aluminum heads and the intake, exhaust, etc. from the Isuzu won't physically fit. Trading heads is not an option because the combustion chamber volume is different between the heads and so are the pistons. In essence, the pistons are matched to the head. Mismatching them can produce extremely low or extremely high compression ratios totally unusable for any motor. JazzMan Signature********************************************************** Please reply to jsavage"at"airmail.net. Curse those darned bulk e-mailers! ********************************************************** "Rats and roaches live by competition under the laws of supply and demand. It is the privilege of human beings to live under the laws of justice and mercy." - Wendell Berry ********************************************************** > LOL! > > Forgot, longitudinal mount. My experience with this engine is > in transverse applications, on those the strut tower is smack > dab in the way. Even on the transverse ones, you can leave the engine in. Just have to drop the subframe down on the "front of the engine" side. Ian |
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