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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / December 2005

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How good are Camaros and Cavaliers?

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Masospaghetti - 13 Dec 2005 18:26 GMT
Anyone have any experience with Camaros (V6 or V8) from the 93-97 body
style or with V6 Cavaliers?

Both are cars that I am interested in but would like opinions.

Thanks
xblazinlv - 13 Dec 2005 21:21 GMT
I'd go with the Camaro V8 personally.

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Masospaghetti - 14 Dec 2005 00:14 GMT
> I'd go with the Camaro V8 personally.
>
> http://www.carforums.net/
> Auto Forums

Hey, sorry, my question was pretty vague. I was more looking for
opinions on the reliability of either vehicle.

I'm considering the Cav and Camaro because they're both relatively
cheap, look nice, have torquey engines, interiors I like, are available
with a manual transmission, and use cheap and plentiful parts.
do_not_spam_me@my-deja.com - 14 Dec 2005 11:23 GMT
> I'm considering the Cav and Camaro because they're both relatively
> cheap, look nice, have torquey engines, interiors I like, are available
> with a manual transmission, and use cheap and plentiful parts.

I was under the impression you already had particular cars chosen
because the Camaro and Cavalier are so different, but if you don't have
you considered other models, like the Celica, Saturn SC, or Escort LX-E
or GT?

The 1995 redesign of the Cavalier made it noticeably better and a bit
roomier inside, despite the car becoming slightly shorter.  I don't
know if it was produced with a V-6, but there were 2 different 4-cyls.
Bruce Chang - 13 Dec 2005 21:46 GMT
> Anyone have any experience with Camaros (V6 or V8) from the 93-97 body
> style or with V6 Cavaliers?
>
> Both are cars that I am interested in but would like opinions.
>
> Thanks

The camaro is considered a pony car.  Many people will call it a muscle car
because most people have a better idea of what that is.  It's built for
moderate performance and a sporty feel.

The Cavalier is a economy vehicle.  It's for people who can't afford
something better and don't want anything fancy or can't afford anything
better.

What kind of car are you looking for?  Fast?  Cheap?  family car?  something
to get you from A to B?  The two cars are vastly different in their use and
functionality.

-Bruce
mst - 13 Dec 2005 22:47 GMT
> Anyone have any experience with Camaros (V6 or V8) from the 93-97 body
> style or with V6 Cavaliers?
>
> Both are cars that I am interested in but would like opinions.

You're talking about two cars that are polar opposites.

The REAL question is what do you [dis]like about each?
In my opinion, a person that would choose the Camaro
wouldnt consider the Cavalier and vice-versa.

With that said, my '95 Z28 is my 6th Camaro (all Zs)
and I really enjoy it.

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Daniel J. Stern - 13 Dec 2005 23:28 GMT
> Anyone have any experience with Camaros (V6 or V8) from the 93-97 body
> style

Rotten assembly quality and godawful headlamps ("don't drive at night"
variety), but if you're a 17-year-old who wants to go fast in a straight
line and don't care about NVH or parts falling off, they're fine. Passably
reliable if not abused, which most of them have been by this point, given
the target demographic.

> or with V6 Cavaliers?

Cadavaliers of any year and any engine are all the same: Frightfully bad
ergonomics, thoroughly mediocre in every respect, but extremely durable.
Sort of like cockroaches: They carry on living long past the point you've
even given up wishing they'd die.

> Both are cars that I am interested in but would like opinions.

My opinion: Lay off the drugs.
Masospaghetti - 14 Dec 2005 03:35 GMT
>> Anyone have any experience with Camaros (V6 or V8) from the 93-97 body
>> style
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> My opinion: Lay off the drugs.

Nah, but I'm not brimming with money and I like the idea of 1) an older
vehicle and 2) a V6 and a 5-speed. I also thought the interior looked
pretty good on the Cavaliers before the '95 redesign.
Daniel J. Stern - 14 Dec 2005 03:44 GMT
> I'm not brimming with money and I like the idea of 1) an older vehicle
> and 2) a V6 and a 5-speed.

Shadow/Sundance with mitsu 3.0/5spd. Ergonomics *a little* better (not
hugely!) than the Cadavalier, more smiles per gallon. The Mitsu engine
isn't one of the world's great ones, but it's a damn sight better than any
of the V6s GM put in the Cav.

DS
Steve - 15 Dec 2005 19:15 GMT
>> I'm not brimming with money and I like the idea of 1) an older vehicle
>> and 2) a V6 and a 5-speed.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> DS

I would also point out that even among the GM products, there are far
better choices than a Cavalier. The Pontiac and Buick midsizes have
better fit, finish, and ergonomics.

The one HUGE redeeming argument for a v6 Camaro vs. a v6 Cavalier is
that (I'm pretty sure) the Camaro could be had with the Buick 3800 v6,
which was never fitted to the Cavalier. At any rate, a GM with the 3800
is light-years ahead of a GM with a Chevy 3100 or 3400.
Masospaghetti - 16 Dec 2005 18:35 GMT
>>> I'm not brimming with money and I like the idea of 1) an older
>>> vehicle and 2) a V6 and a 5-speed.
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> which was never fitted to the Cavalier. At any rate, a GM with the 3800
> is light-years ahead of a GM with a Chevy 3100 or 3400.

Yeah, i definitely would prefer the 3800 if I had the choice.
What midsizes from Pontiac and Buick are V6/5-speed combos? I know
Pontiac had the Sunbird.
Daniel J. Stern - 16 Dec 2005 23:51 GMT
>> The one HUGE redeeming argument for a v6 Camaro vs. a v6 Cavalier is
>> that (I'm pretty sure) the Camaro could be had with the Buick 3800 v6,
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Yeah, i definitely would prefer the 3800 if I had the choice. What
> midsizes from Pontiac and Buick are V6/5-speed combos?

Few or none.

> I know Pontiac had the Sunbird.

That's nothing but a Cadavalier with "Pontiac Sunbird" badges.
do_not_spam_me@my-deja.com - 13 Dec 2005 23:43 GMT
> Anyone have any experience with Camaros (V6 or V8) from the 93-97 body
> style or with V6 Cavaliers?

I'd get the car that's in the better condition, period.  Also check
insurance since Camaros have very high theft rates and may be
classified as sports cars, both which increase premiums.  The Camaro
V-6 is actually decent -- it's no Ford V-6.  If either car has ABS (I
think it's standard on the Cavalier, despite it being an economy car),
be sure it's in perfect shape or you could be facing a $1,000 repair.
With ABS flush the brake fluid every year to lessen the chances of
this.   Also verify that the indicator lights for ABS, airbag, and
Check Engine come on briefly and then turn off when you start the
engine because if they don't it indicates a possibly expensive problem
or that an indicator lamp has been removed to hide a problem, like no
airbag.
news - 15 Dec 2005 19:47 GMT
> Anyone have any experience with Camaros (V6 or V8) from the 93-97 body
> style or with V6 Cavaliers?
>
> Both are cars that I am interested in but would like opinions.
>
> Thanks

What are you looking for?
If you need to carry more than 2 people buy a Cavalier.
If you're looking for low ET's, buy a Camaro.

My take on 6 cylinder powered F-bodys (Camaro/Firebird):
Just say no.
Unless it's an 89 Turbo TA.
Why?
F-bodys don't have a lot of practicality - they're cramped, noisy, don't
get great fuel economy (especially when driven like they should) and
have a live rear axle (which is not all bad if that's what you're
looking for.)  Oh, and the doors are about 100 feet long.  And they are
also blessed (or cursed) with rear wheel drive.

The 93-97 Camaro/Bird V8 is called an LT1.  There's a couple of known
issues with it - intake leaks from the rear, the "distributor" is called
Opti-Spark and has the nickname Opti-Puke.  Changing spark plugs is a
major PITA.

So, why buy one?  Because with a V8 and a 6 speed manual transmission,
you can do block long burnouts.  You can corner hard enough to make your
passenger puke (roll the windows down first.)  Basically it's 90% of a
Vette speed for 50% of the money.  If this sounds like a good idea to
you, then buy an F with a V8.  If this sounds dumb, then don't bother
looking.  It's also an issue when shopping - F-body owners are probably
among the best/worst for modifying and abusing their cars.  Our motto is
pretty much "drive it like you stole it" and "there's no such thing as
too much horsepower."  So watch out for "stock" ones that used to be
modified and abused and all the stuff stripped off to sell.

A Cavalier.... uh.... makes a good car for people who don't like cars or
something.

As you can guess, I own an F-Body.  Three of them actually.  And no
Cavaliers.  And none of them have a V6.

ps... US EPA rating of 19 city, 31 highway is totally doable for an LS1
powered Trans Am.  I've gotten 34 highway.  And it gets about 8mpg at
the drag strip.

V6 powered F-Bodys make about as much sense as a four wheel drive
Porsche.  Oh wait, they make one of those. ;)

And, the 3.1/3.4 you'll find in a Cavalier makes a lot of noise and not
a lot of power.  They'll run forever (wife's Beretta is at 225km, Jimmy
made it to 280km before rusting out and my buddy's Celebrity finally
started knocking after 300k.)  I don't know what it is with that engine,
but it has to have the worst exhaust sound ever.  Especially in a Camaro
- it sounds like it's running on 5 cylinders.

Ray
01 Trans Am Ram Air.  With Nitrous. :)
76 Camaro Dirt Track StockCar
80 Trans Am Jenga Puzzle project car.
www.rollingviolation.com
mst - 15 Dec 2005 21:46 GMT
> There's a couple of known
> issues with it - intake leaks from the rear, the "distributor" is called
> Opti-Spark and has the nickname Opti-Puke.  Changing spark plugs is a
> major PITA.

YOu forgot to mention the "cap/rotor" is MORE of a PITA
to change out than the plugs.

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news - 17 Dec 2005 00:23 GMT
>>There's a couple of known
>>issues with it - intake leaks from the rear, the "distributor" is called
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> YOu forgot to mention the "cap/rotor" is MORE of a PITA
> to change out than the plugs.

true.  I own an LS1, not an LT1 so I've never changed an Opti.  But I've
heard it's big $ + big PITA.  I've done LS1 plugs and they're not a
bitch, but close and apparently better than the LT1 plugs.  I figured
Opti-Puke would be enough info for the OP if he was looking to buy.

The opti is one of those things that was a great idea in theory, and
works great when it works, but unfortunately they fail a lot.  They
can't take water getting in there, so where did they put it?  Down low
on the crank under the water pump.  I know it's the only place it could
go as a "crank trigger" type setup, but it gets WET down there from road
spray and when then water pump starts to weep it takes the opti with it.

Ray
Andrew Szafran - 16 Dec 2005 01:27 GMT
> Anyone have any experience with Camaros (V6 or V8) from the 93-97 body
> style or with V6 Cavaliers?

> Both are cars that I am interested in but would like opinions.

> Thanks

If you want practical, good highway mileage (~27mpg), decent safety, and
comfort, look into one of the 91-97 "Shamu" Caprices.  IMHO, GM's dropping
them to free up more line space to build SUVs was one of their worst
decisions.  Let's hope that we'll be getting a few Zeta platform cars in
the US in the near future (or co-developped Aussie models).

-Andrew
 
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