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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / January 2006Worst thing you can do to a transmission?
Just wanted to take a little survey here............... In your opinion, what is the Number One "worst" thing that you can do to a transmission? Pentastar <Pentastar90@hotmail.com> wrote in article <1135940258.460512.7610@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>... > Just wanted to take a little survey here............... > > In your opinion, what is the Number One "worst" thing that you can do > to a transmission? Drive your car........ .....it causes the transmission to eventually wear out!!!! The answer partly depends on what type of transmission, manual or automatic. It also depends on the vehicle because some "worst" things in one vehicle might be a cheap fix in another. So it's a silly question by someone who I suppose wants to participate in some way and knows little about vehicles or mechanics. I suggest just monitoring the groups and when a question comes up in a real world situation, post it. 1. Auto ... tow at/near max load without a cooler. 2. Related, transfer case ... with part time 4wd, drive in 4H/4L on non-slip e.g. dry pavement surface. 3. And as with all things fluid, neglect to check fluid levels. > In your opinion, what is the Number One "worst" thing that you can do > to a transmission? > 1. Auto ... tow at/near max load without a cooler. > 2. Related, transfer case ... with part time 4wd, drive in 4H/4L on > non-slip e.g. dry pavement surface. > 3. And as with all things fluid, neglect to check fluid levels. Why driving in 4H or 4L on non slippery road with part-time 4 wheel driver car is bad for transmission? 2. Related, transfer case ... but I could just as easily post unrelated. Some might consider the transfer case as being a transmission component, just as some might consider that bolt on overdrive my Healey had as a transmission component. > Just wanted to take a little survey here............... > > In your opinion, what is the Number One "worst" thing that you can do > to a transmission? The worst thing that one could do to a transmission would be to abuse it. (My vague answer to a vaguely worded question). > Just wanted to take a little survey here............... > > In your opinion, what is the Number One "worst" thing that you can do > to a transmission? To be more specific, what is the Number One "worst" thing that you can do to an automatic transmission? > > Just wanted to take a little survey here............... > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > do > to an automatic transmission? The worst thing I personally ever did was to throw it in reverse, then try to shift into drive without stopping. I went past Drive, into Park. Snapped the parking pawl, lead to an overhaul. Was on a 57 Ford Thunderbird. > The worst thing I personally ever did was to throw it in reverse, then try > to shift into drive without stopping. I went past Drive, into Park. I was a passenger when something similar happened. The driver was used to driving his manual-trans work van, and thoughtlessly moved the shifter from Drive to Park in an attempt to change down. (This car had the more usual arrangement of P-R-N-D-2-1). The car made a dreadful noise and lurched to a halt, and fortunately, the transmission wasn't damaged. >>The worst thing I personally ever did was to throw it in reverse, then try >>to shift into drive without stopping. I went past Drive, into Park. Whether that's bad or not depends on the transmission. The park-lock mechanism on Chrysler Torqueflites is designed ratchet harmlessly in such a case. Makes a God-awful racket, but doesn't hurt anything. I can't really describe it very well in prose, but if you take one apart you can see what's going on and why it doesn't do any damage. There's a spring-loaded spherical sleeve on a shaft that gets forced between rotating and fixed teeth to lock the output shaft to the case when you put it in "Park". At a certain torque, the spring gives and the "ball" pops out from between the teeth. Its got plenty of holding power to keep this from happening on a steep hill, but won't lock up and shred things if you accidentally hit park while moving. At least for a few times... I imaging that the "ball" takes a pretty good pounding when the mechanism is working. "Past drive and into PARK?" Do you mean "Past reverse and into park," or was this an older GM or something with a different shifter pattern than "PRND21?" >> Just wanted to take a little survey here............... >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > do > to an automatic transmission? Run it without fluid. Deadly. Huw >> Just wanted to take a little survey here............... >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >do >to an automatic transmission? The other two answers to this were good. My contribution: Drive it when your engine is overheated. It'll usually cause the fluid to varnish the clutches and bands, causing the trans to start slipping, which of course generates more heat. Vicious cycle ending in trans failure. -LMB > Just wanted to take a little survey here............... > > In your opinion, what is the Number One "worst" thing that you can do > to a transmission? Funny you should ask as mine sh.t the bed last week....and i took very good cared of it... changed the fluid, always waitite to stop before i put it i park... used the parking brake before i took my foot of the foot brake so it wouldnt rest on the tranny....but the thing still sh.t the bed.... moral of the story is... it doesnt matter what yo udo to the tranny...... it is still gonna fail you eventually... oh .. i had 126,000 miles on it....but that doesnt' matter either...certain manufacturer's transmissions aren't made to last past the life of the car....i am having mine rebuilt as we speak... or as I speak.. lol... Fwed >Just wanted to take a little survey here............... >In your opinion, what is the Number One "worst" thing that you can do >to a transmission? Let a teenager drive the car. > Just wanted to take a little survey here............... > > In your opinion, what is the Number One "worst" thing that you can do > to a transmission? Drive it off a cliff. Huw >> Just wanted to take a little survey here............... >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Huw Ignore changing your fluid and filter according to mfgr. recommended intervals. Also, periodically check fluid level and color of fluid. >>> Just wanted to take a little survey here............... >>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Also, periodically check fluid level and color of fluid. Not much point to all this if it has been driven off just a moderate cliff. Perhaps you have not understood the question? ;-) Huw >>>> Just wanted to take a little survey here............... >>>> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >Huw OK, then drain the transmission fluid and replace it with GASOLINE! Then...make sure the video camera is filming this. Lg >>OK, then drain the transmission fluid and replace it with GASOLINE! Then...make sure the video camera is filming this. << And be sure to pack in a few hundred extra pounds of misc steel in the trunk for extra *ooomph* at the point of impact.!! >>>OK, then drain the transmission fluid and replace it with GASOLINE! > >Then...make sure the video camera is filming this. << > >And be sure to pack in a few hundred extra pounds of misc steel in the >trunk for extra *ooomph* at the point of impact.!! What I carry as *spare equipment,* is 1/2 the weight of just one of your butt cheeks. If you really want to save on fuel bills, Lose some weight, tubby. Lg >>> Just wanted to take a little survey here............... >>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Also, periodically check fluid level and color of fluid. Oh yea! Another real bad thing is to add antifreeze to the fluid... -LMB >>>> Just wanted to take a little survey here............... >>>> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >-LMB It is possible somebody has done that? I guess anything is possible. I can't imagine why anybody would add anything other than transmission fluid to a transmission. Doesn't make sense. Either does this thread. Since a transmission of the type that I am using cost upwards of $4,000, I try to treat the thing with a bit of respect and care. Goes for the rest of the vehicle as well. So far, I've not any any major problems with this car. Then again, after following a newsgroup on the WWW about *Taurus* problems...I've learned that some of the things I've encountered have simple solutions. Like my engine surging problem. Solved that by going after the gunk built up around the throttle plate. I don't know what I would have been screwed out of had I brought it to a dealership, but it would be more than the $5 I paid for a can of throttle plate cleaner. Lg >>>>>Just wanted to take a little survey here............... >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > anything other than transmission fluid to a transmission. Doesn't > make sense. Either does this thread. It's real easy for it to happen inadvertantly, as the vast majority of modern automatic transmissions have oil-to-water heat exchangers built into the bottom (or cold side) tank of the radiator. If the cooling system is neglected long enough, the tubes of the trans cooler can corrode and the engine and trans will start swapping fluids, and the trans usually loses. nate  Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel >>>>>>Just wanted to take a little survey here............... >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > >nate My taurus has a separate radiator for tranny fluid underneath the radiator for the engine coolant. Mine looks like one of those baseboard heating units with the fins on them. Thank G-d. One less problem to worry about. The transmission cooler is so simple to get at on the Taurus, but like I said, I am LUCKY it is a separate device, as far as I can tell. Not part of the engine cooling equipment. Maybe this is unique to this particular vehicle, and most others have the arrangement you describe. IIRC, my last Chevy Cavalier had both coolers combined IIRC, just like you say. Lg >>>>>>>Just wanted to take a little survey here............... >>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > >Lg Lawrence beat me to it, and he's right. A degraded cooler tank can cause fluid exchange. The antifreeze will utterly destroy the friction materials inside the trans, so it'll require a rebuild, if you're lucky, replacement if not. -LMB >>>>>>>Just wanted to take a little survey here............... >>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > > Lg I'm not so sure that they're all bad... you have to neglect your cooling system pretty badly to get that much corrosion. The nice thing about oil-to-water coolers is that they also offer a warming effect in the winter, helping to get everything up to temp. nice and quickly. I'm surprised they're not used for engine oil more often. In fact had I a car that had had the option of a water-cooled automatic, I'd be tempted to replace the radiator with the automatic version and use the trans cooler as an engine oil cooler. I've had at least three cars with oil-to-water engine oil coolers and they really help the oil warm up faster in winter while reducing the maximum oil temp, and have no moving parts unlike oil thermostats for add-on oil-to-air coolers. nate Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel >>>>>>>>Just wanted to take a little survey here............... >>>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] >winter, helping to get everything up to temp. nice and quickly. I'm >surprised they're not used for engine oil more often. You don't have to worry about that if you switch to Synthetic. Not Synthetic *mix* but pure synthetic. My below zero engine starts are instantaneous. No *cranking* time, just boom, the engine is running. > In fact had I a >car that had had the option of a water-cooled automatic, I'd be tempted >to replace the radiator with the automatic version and use the trans >cooler as an engine oil cooler. That's what the thermostat is for. Your vehicle should run in the 195 to 200F range and your oil should not get much above that, since it is cooled by the water jacket in the engine block just like the rest of the engine parts. > I've had at least three cars with >oil-to-water engine oil coolers and they really help the oil warm up >faster in winter while reducing the maximum oil temp, and have no moving >parts unlike oil thermostats for add-on oil-to-air coolers. > >nate I don't see how, if you have a functioning thermostat and half-decent radiator, how your oil temp needs an extra *cooler.* I doubt it ever gets above the boiling point of water. Lg >>>>>>>>>Just wanted to take a little survey here............... >>>>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > Synthetic *mix* but pure synthetic. My below zero engine starts are > instantaneous. No *cranking* time, just boom, the engine is running. That's not exactly what I'm talking about; I was more referring to the oil being up to *full* engine temp this indicating that the engine was fully warmed up. >> In fact had I a >>car that had had the option of a water-cooled automatic, I'd be tempted [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > cooled by the water jacket in the engine block just like the rest of > the engine parts. The oil is generally the hottest fluid in the vehicle; on the last car that I had an oil temp gauge in (VW Scirocco) it would consistently run about 125C on the highway, until I installed the cooler (it'd been removed at some point) then it ran about 110-115C most of the time, which is pretty much ideal. The real advantage, as I said, was that the oil would get up over 100C much faster with the cooler than without. I wouldn't want the oil to be running much *less* than the boiling point of water, as then it would load up with condensation and other nastiness that otherwise would boil/burn off. >> I've had at least three cars with >>oil-to-water engine oil coolers and they really help the oil warm up [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Lg see above... some cars are marginal in that respect, I've seen oil temps as high as 260F on a Corrado after being stuck in traffic. But the idea is to get it into its ideal range, i.e. just at or above 100C/212F and then don't let it get any hotter. nate Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel >>>>>>>>>>Just wanted to take a little survey here............... >>>>>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 97 lines] > >nate I see your point nate. It depends on the car and driving conditions. In the summertime, standing in stop and go traffic, if I had to do that a lot, I would look into the idea of a separate oil cooler, but Scott says there is probably already one in my radiator. He's probably right. If you can -find- my radiator, buried under all the junk attached behind the front grill. It is really a mess in that area under my hood. Something I might consider taking in under warranty repair, and even paying the $100 deductible to let someone else deal with it. Although I have changed radiators before by myself, this is a real FUBAR design ford has come up with. Lg >>>>>>>Just wanted to take a little survey here............... >>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > baseboard heating units with the fins on them. Thank G-d. One less > problem to worry about. I'll bet you $20 that it ALSO has an oil-to-water unit inside the radiator. Virtually all automatics do- the oil-to-air external units are typically in addition to the primary in-radiator unit. >>>>>>>>Just wanted to take a little survey here............... >>>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] >> baseboard heating units with the fins on them. Thank G-d. One less >> problem to worry about. =========================================================== >I'll bet you $20 that it ALSO has an oil-to-water unit inside the >radiator. Virtually all automatics do- the oil-to-air external units are >typically in addition to the primary in-radiator unit. I won't take that bet because you are probably correct. One thing about this taurus radiator... It is going to be HELL to get it out when the day comes to do so. It is not an open design where you can just reach around it. There are duel fans in there and a whole bunch of other shite that have to be dealth with before you can even get to the radiator mounting points. There are a lot of tubes going into it. That is one part of the vehicle that is a FUBAR design imo. It looks like a nightmare to replace. Even the hoses going to it look like a nightmare to replace...on the radiator side. Something you would definitely save for a warm sunny summer weekend, if you're a DIY'er like myself. Stock up on groceries first. It could take a couple days to do the switch !!! I would send you pics, but I don't have a camera. Lg >>>>>Just wanted to take a little survey here............... >>>>> >>>>>In your opinion, what is the Number One "worst" thing that you can do >>>>>to a transmission? <<<snip>>> >>Oh yea! Another real bad thing is to add antifreeze to the fluid... >> >>-LMB <<<snip>>> I can't imagine why anybody would add > anything other than transmission fluid to a transmission. Doesn't > make sense. Either does this thread. OK, I have a good story for this thread. It's very "That 70s Show" LOL My brother was junking a car once a very long time ago (1965 or 66 Dodge Dart, 225, w/auto IIRC). Thing ran like a Swiss watch, but the body was so smashed up & rusty that there wasn't anything to attach new parts to. When the tranny started slipping really bad at something like 250k on it, off to the boneyard it went - under it's own power. We all piled into the car with another car in chase for the ride home. There were something like 5 or 6 of us, all high school buddies hanging around the garage I worked at. This was in rural 1970s Wisconsin and the junkyard was about 25 miles from where we started out. About half way there, the tranny wouldn't shift above 2nd and we still had about 12~15 miles or so to go. We also had only about 1/2 can of used tranny fliud from the garage with us to try to make the trip (thing leaked like a seive) and it didn't seem to be enough to get there, hardly any difference. Since we were also drinking beer that day we had a simple solution to the problem. Everybody had to pee anyway, so we stuck a funnel in the tranny fill tube and everyone took turns taking a whiz in the tranny. It made it to the junkyard just fine, but it stunk like you wouldn't believe. We couldn't keep a straight face at the boneyard and the old geezer there said something about us all acting like we were "taking pot or something". When he looked over the car, he asked if we hit a skunk or something - we all just busted out laughing and couldn't stop or even say anything. I'm sure that didn't convince him we weren't as wasted as he suspected. I hope nobody bought the car for that tranny. ;) Cheers, - Jeff G > Solved that by going after the gunk built up around the throttle > plate. I don't know what I would have been screwed out of had I > brought it to a dealership, but it would be more than the $5 I paid > for a can of throttle plate cleaner. Some of the garages in my area, include a throttle body clean as part of their standard service. Actually it cost NZ$100, but I suppose it cleaned a bit more than just the plate. The guy had a bottle of stuff, which he hooked up to my fuel lines. So the car idles off this bottle for 15 minutes (and not using the fuel tank), until the bottle runs out. >> Solved that by going after the gunk built up around the throttle >> plate. I don't know what I would have been screwed out of had I [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >idles off this bottle for 15 minutes (and not using the fuel tank), >until the bottle runs out. Yah, sounds like you got a fuel system flush. Seeing the price. I just used the spray cleaner and an old toothbrush on the throat. Never touched the butterfly valve with anything other than the spray. Then air blasted the *stuff* out of the throat until everything was dry and clean. Now, surging is a thing of the past. Although I did the same with the IAC valve, that wasn't the problem. The throttle plate and throat were the problem. Such a simple solution. Such a simple problem to fix. Yet...I bet that people drive to the dealership with that *problem* every day and are sold a bill of goods they don't need. Lg Dammit, that explains why the Chevette I had was "cured". It was a '76 with 135K miles on it in 1988 and every so often lost power to the point of stumbling and dying. Mechanic friend suggested some carb spray then revving the engine up and choking the air off to almost dying with your hands over the carb then opening it up- repeat a couple of times. Fixed it. Hmmm.... > Dammit, that explains why the Chevette I had was "cured". It was a '76 > with 135K miles on it in 1988 and every so often lost power to the > point of stumbling and dying. Mechanic friend suggested some carb > spray then revving the engine up and choking the air off to almost > dying with your hands over the carb then opening it up- repeat a couple > of times. Fixed it. Hmmm.... What that does is gices the carb an ununsually high vacuum, so if there's any crap in it, it gets sucked out of the little passages.... nate > Just wanted to take a little survey here............... > > In your opinion, what is the Number One "worst" thing that you can do > to a transmission? Neutral dropping, running it dry, without a filter or running it with sand without a filter, running it overfull. Anything that will cause it to die either immediately or within several miles of whatever you did. >> Just wanted to take a little survey here............... >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > it to die either immediately or within several miles of whatever you > did. But what is 'number one "worst"?' A list of between six and infinite worses is not very helpful. Huw Put the vehicle against a strong wall facing forward: put the transmission in gear and put a cinderblock on the gas pedal and step back and watch the fun begin. > Put the vehicle against a strong wall facing forward: put the > transmission in gear and put a cinderblock on the gas pedal and step > back and watch the fun begin. Don't you think the tyres or engine will give out first. It would be fun to find out. You supply the car and wall and I'll bring a couple of bottles of Champagne. Huw >>> Just wanted to take a little survey here............... >>> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Huw Asking a question that is completely subjective and vague doesn't get a definitive answer. >>>> Just wanted to take a little survey here............... >>>> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Asking a question that is completely subjective and vague doesn't get > a definitive answer. I find the question to be precise well put. He asks for the number one worst thing you can do to a transmission which he intends to be an automatic. Since a transmission is not a living thing and therefore not prone to pain or cruelty as such, then we must assume some form of mistreatment leading to a drastically reduced service life. A sense of humour and imagination helps to find the answer. Huw > Just wanted to take a little survey here............... > > In your opinion, what is the Number One "worst" thing that you can do > to a transmission? Drain out the transmission fluid and replace it with sodium hydroxide. >> Just wanted to take a little survey here............... >> >> In your opinion, what is the Number One "worst" thing that you can do >> to a transmission? > > Drain out the transmission fluid and replace it with sodium hydroxide. Diesel and liquid ammonium nitrate would be fun and rather spectacular I would think. Huw I have a couple contendors in the "automatic" category, based upon things my folks have done. Very bad with cars... A) 1974 Chevy Caprice stuck in snow. In order to get it unstuck, they shifted into reverse, then floored it, stepped on the brake, put into drive, floored it...process repeated several times with increasing rapidity until *clunk* we were dead. B)1985 Chevy Suburban. Never changed fluid or checked fluid level, in spite of some very rigorous use such as hauling heavy trailer up extremely steep Mexican mountains on really bad roads. One day it overheated and seized up due to it being extremely low on fluid. It started working again, sort of, when fluid was added, but died completely soon afterwards. I also once had a friend who always put it into park before he was completely stopped..sometimes it made a groaning noise. Needless to say, the tranny eventually went on that one as well. I also have some nasty stories involving friends who never checked or changed their oil, never checked their coolant, and/or completely ignored engine and temperature warning lights, but that would be off this topic. You could, however, have a topic called Horrifically Stupid Things People do to Cars. Worst thing you can do to a transmission? That's easy: Buy it, if it's a Chrysler A604, a GM TH700R4, TH200R4 or THM250, a Ford AXOD, or a Borg-Warner BW35. In your own car or a rental? SignaturePaul Hovnanian mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com ------------------------------------------------------------------ Life is like a buffet. Its not very good but there's plenty of it. loan it to my ex-wife...that bitch would tear anything up! > Just wanted to take a little survey here............... > > In your opinion, what is the Number One "worst" thing that you can do > to a transmission? Depends on the transmission. For some, neutral drops into reverse are instant death (or close to it). For others the weakest point may be something else (neutral drop into drive, running low on fluid, etc.) > > Just wanted to take a little survey here............... > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > instant death (or close to it). For others the weakest point may be > something else (neutral drop into drive, running low on fluid, etc.) What about the "stick shift effect" on an automatic? >Just wanted to take a little survey here............... > >In your opinion, what is the Number One "worst" thing that you can do >to a transmission? Run it dry. --------------- Alex > Just wanted to take a little survey here............... > > In your opinion, what is the Number One "worst" thing that you can do > to a transmission? Auto or manual? I would think jamming it into reverse when going about 80 ought to do the trick. > > Just wanted to take a little survey here............... > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I would think jamming it into reverse when going about 80 ought to do > the trick. Well, actually, the correct answer would seem to be "give Nate the keys to your car, and tell him that you don't care whether it runs or not when he gives it back." :) nate .....from Mike at carforums.net > .....from Mike at carforums.net No. MasterBlaster <Nobody's.Home@My.Place> wrote in article <wXQuf.30143$AP5.11408@edtnps84>... > > .....from Mike at carforums.net > > No. I think you missed the point....... I meant that the worst thing you could do to a transmission would be to ask Mike for advice.......and then use said advice. I love my fans.... * is my #1 fan. Thanks for spreading the word about my site, you're helping me more and more every day. ------------------------------------ http://www.carforums.net Auto Forums xblazinlv <mike@carforums.net> wrote in article <1136965275.237798.293720@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>... > I love my fans.... * is my #1 fan. Thanks for spreading the word about > my site, you're helping me more and more every day. SPAMMERS ARE SCAMMERS............. I encourage everybody to visit your site once and see the sophomoric communication that takes place there....... > xblazinlv <mike@carforums.net> wrote in article > <1136965275.237798.293720@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>... [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I encourage everybody to visit your site once and see the sophomoric > communication that takes place there....... Been there done that and you're right Blah blah blah.... get over it. I'm not going anywhere and neither is my site. ------------------------------------ Mike Mangione http://www.carforums.net xblazinlv <mike@carforums.net> wrote in article <1137303178.108594.201360@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>... > Blah blah blah.... get over it. I'm not going anywhere and neither is > my site. > > ------------------------------------ > Mike Mangione > http://www.carforums.net ^ / \ / | \ | | When you see SPAM....... Expect a SCAM....... How are we scamming people?? Explain.... ------------------------------------ Mike Mangione http://www.carforums.net |
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