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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / January 2006moisture proofing ignition?
Any suggestions on moisture proofing an ignition system? Yesterday it stalled at a light when cold and was missing after it warmed up. I took it home and wiped down the ignition wires, distributor cap, and coil. Runs fine now. I had to wipe it down last summer too. The car sits in the garge most of the time. I take it out once or twice a week. Last time I had the wires off I smeared some white grease inside the rubber cups. I was wondering if spraying with WD-40 would be any good. Only problems I can think of is if WD-40 conducts electricity and how long it might last. Other suggestions? Thanks. > I was wondering if spraying with WD-40 would be any good. Only problems I > can think of is if WD-40 conducts electricity and how long it might last. > > Other suggestions? > > Thanks. WD-40 is fine for removing moisture from ignition wires, distributor caps, etc. It does not conduct electricity significantly. Silicone sprays are pretty good at repelling moisture, but not so good at dispersing or removing it. Unless you are in a really tough environment, treatment once or twice year should be enough. > Any suggestions on moisture proofing an ignition system? > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Thanks. I'm thinking a silicone dielectric grease (like syl-glide) might be better inside the boots than white grease. Also a silicone spray on the wires might help repel water, similar to treating your door seals. Beyond that there's not a whole lot you can do. WD-40 inside the dist. cap is fine. nate >>Any suggestions on moisture proofing an ignition system? >I was wondering if spraying with WD-40 would be any good. Only problems I >can think of is if WD-40 conducts electricity and how long it might last. >I'm thinking a silicone dielectric grease (like syl-glide) might be >better inside the boots than white grease. Also a silicone spray on >the wires might help repel water, similar to treating your door seals. >Beyond that there's not a whole lot you can do. WD-40 inside the dist. >cap is fine. WD-40 will probably evaporate in the high underhood temperatures, and I don't like having any lubricants on the exposed areas of ignition system parts because they attract dust and oil, which leads to formation of carbon tracks that short the spark energy to ground and can even crack distributor caps and rotors. Keep everything clean, and fill connections with thick, non-runny dielectric grease (Loctite, Radio Shack, transistor heatsink paste). Syl-Glide will run because it isn't filled with zinc oxide powder as dielectric grease is. > Syl-Glide will run because it isn't filled with zinc oxide powder as > dielectric grease is. NO. A dielectric substance is one that DOES NOT conduct electricity. The Zinc-filled greases (Noalox, Ox-Gard) are *CONDUCTIVE* pastes intended primarily to prevent junction problems in aluminum household wiring. DS >>fill connections with thick, non-runny dielectric grease (Loctite, >>Radio Shack, transistor heatsink paste). Syl-Glide will run >>because it isn't filled with zinc oxide powder as dielectric grease is. >NO. YES. Pure grease runs and needs a powder filler to prevent this. >A dielectric substance is one that DOES NOT conduct electricity. Who said or implied otherwise? >The Zinc-filled greases (Noalox, Ox-Gard) are *CONDUCTIVE* pastes >intended primarily to prevent junction problems in aluminum household >wiring. I said zinc OXIDE, a dielectric, not pure zinc powder, a conductor. Don't omit words and change meanings. >> The Zinc-filled greases (Noalox, Ox-Gard) are *CONDUCTIVE* pastes >> intended primarily to prevent junction problems in aluminum household >> wiring. > > I said zinc OXIDE, a dielectric, not pure zinc powder, a conductor. > Don't omit words and change meanings. Show us this alleged Zinc Oxide dielectric grease and maybe I'll believe you. >The Zinc-filled greases (Noalox, Ox-Gard) are *CONDUCTIVE* pastes >intended primarily to prevent junction problems in aluminum household >wiring. >>I said zinc OXIDE, a dielectric, not pure zinc powder, a conductor. >>Don't omit words and change meanings. >Show us this alleged Zinc Oxide dielectric grease and maybe I'll believe you. "Us"? That's a bit imperial and presumptuous. What do you think usually makes dielectric grease thick and opaque white? Zinc oxide, possibly the most common additive put into silicone grease. Try these: Radio Shack #276-1372 www.melcor.com/thermgrs.html www.gcwaldom.com/chempdf/10_8109%2010_8108%2010_8107_10%2010_8107_100%2010_8106. pdf#search='dielectric%20grease%20zinc%20oxide' >>> I said zinc OXIDE, a dielectric, not pure zinc powder, a conductor. >>> Don't omit words and change meanings. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > What do you think usually makes dielectric grease thick and opaque > white? All the automotive dielectric greases I've seen for sale in eight states and two provinces have been thick due to formulation, not due to additives. And, they've all been colorless transluscent, not opaque white. > Radio Shack #276-1372 I don't go shopping at sh.t shack for anything other than cheap Chinese electronic toys for nieces and nephews. Certainly not for car-repair supplies. > www.melcor.com/thermgrs.html Another distinctly non-automotive source of non-automotive products. > www.gcwaldom.com/chempdf/10_8109%2010_8108%2010_8107_10%2010_8107_100%2010_8106. pdf#search='dielectric%20grease%20zinc%20oxide' Yet another non-automotive source of non-automotive products. I'm sure this Zinc Oxide silicone grease of yours exists and can be used satisfactorily in certain automotive applications. But it is not what will get pointed out or placed on the counter when someone goes to an automotive parts and supplies source and requests dielectric grease. DS >> What do you think usually makes dielectric grease thick and opaque white? > > All the automotive dielectric greases I've seen for sale in eight states > and two provinces have been thick due to formulation, not due to > additives. And, they've all been colorless transluscent, not opaque white. Like this: http://www.ferret.com.au/articles/b3/0c0285b3.asp >>I said zinc OXIDE, a dielectric, not pure zinc powder, a conductor. >>Don't omit words and change meanings. >Show us this alleged Zinc Oxide dielectric grease and maybe I'll >believe you. >>What do you think usually makes dielectric grease thick and opaque >>white? >All the automotive dielectric greases I've seen for sale in eight states >and two provinces have been thick due to formulation, not due to >additives. And, they've all been colorless transluscent, not opaque white. >>Radio Shack #276-1372 >I don't go shopping at sh.t shack for anything other than cheap Chinese >electronic toys for nieces and nephews. Certainly not for car-repair >supplies. >>www.melcor.com/thermgrs.html >Another distinctly non-automotive source of non-automotive products. >>www.gcwaldom.com/chempdf/10_8109%2010_8108%2010_8107_10%2010_8107_100%2010_8106. pdf#search='dielectric%20grease%20zinc%20oxide' >Yet another non-automotive source of non-automotive products. >I'm sure this Zinc Oxide silicone grease of yours exists and can be used >satisfactorily in certain automotive applications. You asked me to show that dielectric grease containing zinc oxide existed, and I did. You didn't say it had to be from the auto industry, and there's no practical difference with the silicone-based ones marketed for electronics use. The last GM car I had, a 1980s model, came with opaque white silicone grease all over its tail light connections. >But it is not what will get pointed out or placed on the counter when someone >goes to an automotive parts and supplies source and requests dielectric grease. They may not know it, but that is what they'll usually provide. Why did you even mention zinc-laced grease for dielectric purposes? No competent person would confuse pure zinc with zinc oxide. > You asked me to show that dielectric grease containing zinc oxide > existed, and I did. You didn't say it had to be from the auto industry, Check the headers, boss. rec.AUTOS.tech. We're not here to discuss repair materials for our Zenith television sets. > and there's no practical difference with the silicone-based ones > marketed for electronics use. A practical difference there may not be, but a composition difference there certainly is. >>You asked me to show that dielectric grease containing zinc oxide >>existed, and I did. You didn't say it had to be from the auto industry, >Check the headers, boss. rec.AUTOS.tech. We're not here to discuss repair >materials for our Zenith television sets. The fact remains that you didn't specify automotive or electronic, and this is an electronic matter where the product made for the electronic market will work for automotive applications.. >>and there's no practical difference with the silicone-based ones >>marketed for electronics use. >A practical difference there may not be, but a composition difference >there certainly is. No, there isn't, and both automotive and electronic silicone greases are made with and without powder oxides. And who are you to argue about differences when you confused zinc (a conductor) with zinc oxide (a dielectric)? "Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@127.0.0.1> wrote in message > A practical difference there may not be, but a composition difference > there certainly is. Very correct. A common way of making silicon grease is by thickening silicon oils with fumed silica powder. These are good dielectrics. Another common misconception voiced on this newsgroup is that 'silica is sand'. Not true at all. The chemical formula may be the same but the properties and abrasive nature is totally different. > "Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@127.0.0.1> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > properties > and abrasive nature is totally different. In fact, it is not even true to say that all sand is silica, but not all silica is sand. There are sands that are primarily silica, depending on the constituents of the rocks in the area, but there are also sands with quite a bit of aluminum oxide, and other minerals too. Sand is finely ground rock, and not all rocks are the same. Silica is silicon dioxide, and not even all sands containing silicon are oxides- there are also other salts of silicon. > In fact, it is not even true to say that all sand is silica, but not all > silica is sand. There are sands that are primarily silica, depending on [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > and not even all sands containing silicon are oxides- there are also > other salts of silicon. Absolutely. There are some beautiful white 'sand' dunes on the beach toward the airport in Salvador, Brasil. But it turns out that this 'sand' is titania. And some of the dunes near White Sands, N.M. are made of gypsum crystals. Thanks for all the info. I think the idea that spraying will attract dirt deposits is a good one. Best to just keep clean. If this happens again I think I will wipe everything clean and dry with the engine idling, starting at the coil, and see if that will isolate a particular problem area. >>The Zinc-filled greases (Noalox, Ox-Gard) are *CONDUCTIVE* pastes >>intended primarily to prevent junction problems in aluminum household [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > "Us"? That's a bit imperial and presumptuous. What do you think > usually makes dielectric grease thick and opaque white? Well, dielectric grease is generally clear, not white. > Zinc oxide, > possibly the most common additive put into silicone grease. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > www.melcor.com/thermgrs.html Thermal heat-sink greases are not always interchangeable with DIELECTRIC greases. Heat sink greases are made primarily to conduct HEAT, and whether or not they conduct or insulate electricity is secondary. The white ones are not strongly conductive, but the breakdown numbers on those sheets are definitely lower than true dielectric greases. Dielectric greases are specifically made to have high electrical resistivity and ability to resist dielectric breakdown (arc-through). >>>The Zinc-filled greases (Noalox, Ox-Gard) are *CONDUCTIVE* pastes >>>intended primarily to prevent junction problems in aluminum household >>>wiring. >>I said zinc OXIDE, a dielectric, not pure zinc powder, a conductor. >>Don't omit words and change meanings. >>>Show us this alleged Zinc Oxide dielectric grease and maybe I'll believe you. >>Radio Shack #276-1372 >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >white ones are not strongly conductive, but the breakdown numbers on >those sheets are definitely lower than true dielectric greases. You're right that heatsink greases aren't necessarily dielectrics, but most of them are made that way because they're so commonly used around high voltage, such as for CRT TV or monitor horizontal output transistors, and zinc oxide, the most common additive put in heatsink grease, is dielectric. By the way, nobody should assume that a grease is dielectric simply because an ohm meter says it is because that's not at all a valid test. Even Honeywell Tradeline aluminized grease will show infinite ohms, despite it being labelled as electrically conductive. > Dielectric greases are specifically made to have high electrical > resistivity and ability to resist dielectric breakdown (arc-through). >>> The Zinc-filled greases (Noalox, Ox-Gard) are *CONDUCTIVE* pastes >>> intended primarily to prevent junction problems in aluminum household [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Show us this alleged Zinc Oxide dielectric grease and maybe I'll believe > you. Maybe he's using this as a dielectric grease: http://www.buttpaste.com/ :-) > Any suggestions on moisture proofing an ignition system? Probably, if you'll tell us the make, model, engine, and year. Plug in the block heater a couple of hours before departure ... does a decent job of drying things out. And since the engine warms up shortly after starting, it stays dry. Else replace all your high tension stuff ... cap, leads, boots ... and not with the cheap stuff ... or maybe that's when the problems began? If the plug wires, coil wire and the distributor cap and rotor are in decent shape you shouldn't need to moisture proof anything, they should seal good enough normally. I think just as the previous poster recommended, new wires, distributor cap, and rotor of a good quality will fix your problem. >Any suggestions on moisture proofing an ignition system? > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >Thanks. >If the plug wires, coil wire and the distributor cap and rotor are in >decent shape you shouldn't need to moisture proof anything, they [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >> >>Thanks. Thank you. The voice of reason. If your components need moisture proofing, they need replacement. The WD40 thing is fine to get you going on a stop gap basis. It really does work but, after it dissipates, you will have the same problem repeat until you repair it correctly. Probably true in most cases, however, some vehicles (esp. old British cars) still needed some extra help even with all components new. I'd also add that even "brand name" components may still cause problems; I put a set of Bosch plug wires on an old VW once and they failed within a year. Apparently OEM Bosch and aftermarket Bosch are two different animals. Not sure what the replacements were (I took it to a shop because I was sure I had serious problems) but it was still running fine several years later when I sold it. nate > If the plug wires, coil wire and the distributor cap and rotor are in > decent shape you shouldn't need to moisture proof anything, they [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > > >Thanks. They make a special dielectric grease for the boots on plug wires. It is cheap and most automotive stores have it. I always recommend folks that have moisture issues to start the vehicle up in the dark with the hood open and to spray mist the wires down with water. If the wires are worn out or if there is one bad spot, you will get a wicked spark show. This can isolate a trouble spot or just show you all the wires are too old and leaky. WD40 works well to dry out the 'inside' of the distributor caps. Sometimes when I get my Jeep into deep water, the cold splash will create condensation inside the cap and cause it to miss bad. If I open it and spray out the insides with WD40, I am usually good for the rest of the trip. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) > Any suggestions on moisture proofing an ignition system? > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Thanks. |
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