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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / January 2006Sam's Club service disaster
I drive a 2000 Mazda Millenia with the 2.5L V6 and it has 96K miles. I took the car to Sam's Club to get 4 new tires. I had gone in to get a few items and came back out noticing my car was up on the lift with the rims/tires off the car. It was at least 3 feet in the air, when I saw it drop. A service tech had hit the lift release button while the car was in the air and it landed hard on the rotors and suspension components. It hit hard enough to where the wasn't lined up with the lift properly and the techs managed to dent up my doors (and probably more) trying to get it back on the lift. It also left indentions in the concrete where the rotors hit the ground They got the car back up on the lift and put the rims/tires back on. I couldn't see any damage to the components, but I refused to drive the car after being asked to twice. The managers watched the video and admitted fault and I was able to file a claim, but being Sunday they said their insurance company wasn't open. I ended up filing a claim with my insurance company and got a rental car, and on Tuesday it was switched over to Sam's insurance company. The car was towed to a body shop and its pretty much in limbo there. Being that this is a japanese unibody car that weighs around 3400lbs or so, I am concerned that there may be frame damage. What other damage should I look out for if there isn't. I asked the body shop to run it through a diagnostic machine, but they said it would have to go to a dealer for that service. Is it possible the car sustained damage to the sensors and other electrical equipment during the fall. I went to look at the car and noticed the oil pan was dented pretty badly. This car sat pretty low to the ground to begin with, and that was with the rims/tires on. Any advice or suggestions? I highly recommend you talk to a lawyer. Having a vehicle dropped hard enough to flatten the oil pan could easily result in a dead vehicle. Suspension parts bent, body or frame parts bent, crankshaft bent, etc.... Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) > I drive a 2000 Mazda Millenia with the 2.5L V6 and it has 96K miles. I > took the car to Sam's Club to get 4 new tires. I had gone in to get a [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Any advice or suggestions? Thanks for the quick responses. Yes, it seems going to Sam's was definately a bad idea, but I agree it was human error. My insurance company was sending a rep out to do the estimate on Tuesday, but thats when it got switched to Sam's insurance company. The body shop said they will do the estimate for Sams, but more than likely Sams will send a 3rd party out to do another estimate. We are waiting on the estimate and Sam's response to decide if we need to bring lawyers into it. I don't think the car is worth that much. Maybe a wholesale value of around $5K or so, but the reail is around $9K. I'm thinking with the body damage alone could be around $1500 or $2000. I would think the struts took a good beating and they are 600$ for 4 and you can only get them from the dealer. Low volume discontinued cars are expensive to repair and maintain is what I've found out. The thing that bothers me the most is if I didn't see this they more than likely would have never told me. > I highly recommend you talk to a lawyer. > [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > > > Any advice or suggestions? > I don't think the car is worth that much. Maybe a wholesale value of > around $5K or so, but the reail is around $9K. I'm thinking with the > body damage alone could be around $1500 or $2000. I'm thinking your tad bit low. I had my driver side door backed into. Panel damage and rear view mirror broken. That cost $1100 to fix. I would really be thinking $5-6k. An adjuster will not be able to determine if you have any internal damage. I would even be suspicious about transmission damage. The more I add up potential costs, the more I think the car is totaled. I am suspicious about transmission damage and sensor damage b/c I know how picky this car is. Thats the main reason I want them to take it to the dealer to hook it up the diagnostic machine that can read more than just the OBD-II codes. I'm beginning to wonder if it will even get that far though. What a mess. > > I don't think the car is worth that much. Maybe a wholesale value of > > around $5K or so, but the reail is around $9K. I'm thinking with the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > determine if you have any internal damage. I would even be suspicious > about transmission damage. > The more I add up potential costs, the more I think the car is totaled. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > What a mess. There arent that many sensors under the car to be damaged. O2 or exhaust related sensors. Most likely thats it. However, there is the fuel system wiring. In cars this tends to enter the passenger cabin, bu tin trucks it tends to stay along the vehicle frame (since it has to go to trailer tow often) The obd2 stuff will self-diagnose and complain without help in your check engine light. typically not the case since~1998 but ill say it anyway. Some cars have external impact sensors, and if your car does (behind the front bumper) I would want those replaced. Typical drop test for electronic components is 1-2meters, but when you have a few thousand pounds on top of it, all bets are off. >>>I don't think the car is worth that much. Maybe a wholesale value of >>>around $5K or so, but the reail is around $9K. I'm thinking with the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >>determine if you have any internal damage. I would even be suspicious >>about transmission damage.  SignatureThank you, CL Gilbert "Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard." Ecclesiastes 9:16 > There arent that many sensors under the car to be damaged. O2 or > exhaust related sensors. Most likely thats it. However, there is the > fuel system wiring. In cars this tends to enter the passenger cabin, bu > tin trucks it tends to stay along the vehicle frame (since it has to go > to trailer tow often) Lookit there...the pretend-engineer who cannot even begin to diagnose his own Chevrolet and has 17th-century-quality knowledge of how electricity works is a sudden expert in what did and didn't get damaged when the Burger King rejects at Sam's Club dropped a Mazda. Fascinating. Not to mention pathetic. >> I don't think the car is worth that much. Maybe a wholesale value of >> around $5K or so, but the reail is around $9K. I'm thinking with the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >determine if you have any internal damage. I would even be suspicious >about transmission damage. In short, it is quite possible that the maggot at Wal sh.t totaled your vehicle. I wouldn't drive it anymore. I would demand another car of comparable value, and for this you will need your OWN attorney, not a Sam's Shill. Lg > I don't think the car is worth that much. Maybe a wholesale value of > around $5K or so, but the reail is around $9K. I'm thinking with the > body damage alone could be around $1500 or $2000. I don't know about their insurance company, but I can tell you what happened when my '95 Acura Integra GS-R was stolen, stripped, and declared a total loss. The adjuster looked at it and decided that the cost to replace and repair the wheels/tires, seats, instrument cluster, P/S, A/C, etc. would be more than the value of my car. Whoever stole it did a real piece of work. The thieves even took the four factory alloys with tires with tread, and left cheapie steel wheels (with bald tires) and the compact spare. The procedure was to look at a variety of local ads for similar Integras. They based the offer on an averaging of local offering prices, which was given to me for my perusal. I got an offer for about $7400 for my car (with 135K mi), plus a prorated refund of my registration fees (and here's the kicker) my prepaid insurance back. I was thinking of selling the car, and the offer was frankly more than I think I would have gotten. The adjuster said as much. Now - you're not dealing with your own insurance company. My insurer was the California State Automobile Association, where I've always had good service with my claims. My insurance rate didn't even go up, although it did recently with a stupid at fault collision. However - given that you're dealing with another insurance company, I agree that you should probably retain a lawyer. I knew sam's/walmart sh_ts on employees and suppliers, I guess they now sh_t on customers too. >> > I drive a 2000 Mazda Millenia with the 2.5L V6 and it has 96K miles. I >> > took the car to Sam's Club to get 4 new tires. I had gone in to get a [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> > more) trying to get it back on the lift. It also left indentions in the >> > concrete where the rotors hit the ground > Any advice or suggestions? Yea. Don't ever take anything to Sams........ Seriously, since this was human error it COULD have happened anywhere you take it, even the dealer. I think you are on the right track, but I would have it thoroughly checked out by your dealer and a competent body shop. After that, it's up to the lawyers and you to decide. >I drive a 2000 Mazda Millenia with the 2.5L V6 and it has 96K miles. I >took the car to Sam's Club to get 4 new tires. I had gone in to get a [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > >Any advice or suggestions? At this stage, it is in the hands of someone's insurance company. Regarding what is to be done and by whom. No doubt you are right about internal damage to things. I would suspect it bottomed out ( obviously dented the oil sump ) which probably broke the oil PUMP. The intake for the oil pump reaches almost to the bottom of the oil sump, so if that is *caved in* you can pretty well be certain that there is oil PUMP damage. Trying to run a car without a functioning oil PUMP is the end of the engine. There could, depending on where the transmission is located, be damage to that also. There could be a cracked casting somewhere. Maybe your exhaust system is fvcked up. You could have broken catalytic converters. In short, some of these possibilities cost a fortune to repair. Maybe it is time to get an Insurance Adjustor for Accident Claims out to the vehicle to do an assessment. That would be Step 1. Lg > I drive a 2000 Mazda Millenia with the 2.5L V6 and it has 96K miles. I > took the car to Sam's Club to get 4 new tires. I had gone in to get a [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Any advice or suggestions? DO NOT START THE ENGINE. if the oil pan is dented, that's a sign that all sorts of bad things could have happened. You need to get an assessment from not only the body guys but a good mechanic as well. You may be looking at pulling the pan and a new oil pump, not to mention who knows what else that you missed - cracked tranny case, etc. etc. etc. that will be very expen$ive to fix. nate Thats exactly why I wouldn't drive the car, and I assume why they insisted. If I took possesion of the car I would be responsible for anything wrong with it. The last person to drive the car was a Sam's employee, then it was towed. > I drive a 2000 Mazda Millenia with the 2.5L V6 and it has 96K miles. I > took the car to Sam's Club to get 4 new tires. I had gone in to get a [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Any advice or suggestions? If they end up fixing it, i would certainly take it to a independent frame shop that has a frame bench and fixture for your car (if you can even find a shop like that) and have them closely inspect the car for frame and unibody damage. If the unibody is torqued, its possible your alignment may never be right. But they probably need to fix what's visual before you get to that point. My advice? take lots of pictures and get written statements from ANYONE who touches the car. That may help you later if you have to hire OJ's lawyers....... Of course it being wallmart, they will probably send it off to CHina to be repaired.... Bob question for the OP... so the wheels and tires were off the car when it fell.... were the drums or rotors or whatever hit the ground bent or otherwise damaged? Did anything else besides the 4 wheels and the oil pan hit the ground? Mark > question for the OP... > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Mark I am sure that he will find that he needs new rotors, and maybe wheel bearings, once the car is fixed enough to test drive it. nate Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel I noticed it was sitting on some lateral links of the suspension. Thats all I could tell from the back of the car. > question for the OP... > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Mark First, be glad no one was injured or killed by their negligence. The two insurances will battle this. Your company, if your covered, should represent your interests as part of your policy. Determine your coverages. If you obtain an attorney, he's not going to be free, and being no personal injuries were sustained, there will be no recovery of expenses to offset his fee. I would not expect them to pay you more than the car was worth. Its a 2000, less than 100k on it, you should find out the value of what was before the incident. If they buy you a new car, your damn lucky becuase they don't have to. They are obligated to cut your a check for what the value was of what they broke. Market value plus any improvements you had on the vehicle. They can total it out if the repairs are greater than the value prior to the incident, and your gonna not get enough to buy a new one. Much like an auto collision, there can be unseen damage which surfaces later on. Thats too bad once you have settled, you've settled, so don't sign off on this until your satisfied. If they offer you more than the car was worth, be glad and get a reliable used car at a good lot or auction. They can offer to fix it all but YOU pick the shop to have it towed, evaluated, fixed and have them go over it good. They are looking out for their bottom line and not you. Find out what the car was worth. Thats your baseline. >I drive a 2000 Mazda Millenia with the 2.5L V6 and it has 96K miles. I > took the car to Sam's Club to get 4 new tires. I had gone in to get a [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Any advice or suggestions? >I drive a 2000 Mazda Millenia with the 2.5L V6 and it has 96K miles. I > took the car to Sam's Club to get 4 new tires. I had gone in to get a [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > more) trying to get it back on the lift. It also left indentions in the > concrete where the rotors hit the ground A hoist cannot lower a car fast enough to do that kind of damage. It could have slid off if the hoist wasn't set properly but the way you describe things that isn't what happened either. I don't doubt they damaged your car, just wondering what really happened. Bob > A hoist cannot lower a car fast enough to do that kind of damage. It could > have slid off if the hoist wasn't set properly but the way you describe > things that isn't what happened either. I don't doubt they damaged your car, > just wondering what really happened. When I was young and my father was having his car serviced at Montgomery Ward, I heard a loud crash when a parallelogram-style lift suddenly fell 3-4 feet with a car on it. I think it was the kind of lift used only for wheel alignments. >> A hoist cannot lower a car fast enough to do that kind of damage. It could >> have slid off if the hoist wasn't set properly but the way you describe [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >suddenly fell 3-4 feet with a car on it. I think it was the kind of >lift used only for wheel alignments. See, bob doesn't KNOW what lift was used. My hydraulic jacks fold up like a cheap Chinese suitcase when I release the valve _quickly_. I have to do it incrementally, or the car comes crashing to earth. Bob doesn't know, bob just *thinks* he knows, which has been the case since day 1 of my arrival here, although I know he continues to be bosom buddies with aarcuda, whose opinion I DO respect. I believe the OP who was _there_, not bob who is using his clairvoyance to visit somewhere he's never been to, sometime in the past. Lg FWIW, these are some pics I took on Monday after the accident. Its not a lift that locks into place. I circled the spots were it left marks on the concrete. You notice the service tech in pictures... He was baffled why I was taking pictures. http://fapomatic.com/show.php?loc=02&f=floor.jpg http://fapomatic.com/show.php?loc=02&f=floor2.jpg >>> A hoist cannot lower a car fast enough to do that kind of damage. It >>> could [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Lg > FWIW, these are some pics I took on Monday after the accident. Its not a > lift that locks into place. I circled the spots were it left marks on the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > http://fapomatic.com/show.php?loc=02&f=floor2.jpg Lawrence and Bob have gone into their usual name-calling argument mode, so no further help can be expected from them. It's a "low-rise" hydraulic hoist, with a remote motor/pump, controlled by a single hose to the cylinder, likely the LR-60 model here: http://www.bendpak.com/default.isg?cPath=215 http://www.bendpak.com/pdf_lr60_manual.pdf (198k) There's a "safety" system that mechanically locks it at 3 different heights (page 6 in the manual), but if it wasn't working, or hadn't been raised enough to drop into position, AND then the hose or hydraulic cylinder decided to go poof, well... Just wondering... is that bay now roped off because it's not being used, because it was the site of an accident (yours), or because the hoist has been found to be defective? > There's a "safety" system that mechanically locks it at 3 different heights > (page 6 in the manual), but if it wasn't working, or hadn't been raised > enough to drop into position, AND then the hose or hydraulic cylinder > decided to go poof, well... The OP mentioned that they got the car back on the lift and raised it back up... kinda eliminates a lift failure. > Just wondering... is that bay now roped off because it's not being used, > because it was the site of an accident (yours), or because the hoist has > been found to be defective? I can't speak for the picture, but it's common for bays to be chained off to keep customers out of the bay area. At least, it's common for the places I've worked at/owned. Jim Very good find. I don't think the lift is defective though. I think the workers were neglected the safety locks or were not properly trained. B/C when they "accidently" hit the release the car fell to the ground. I don't know how similar this unit is to floor jack, but if you release all the pressure on a floor jack it will fall quickly. Even quicker with more weight on the jack. >Very good find. I don't think the lift is defective though. I think the >workers were neglected the safety locks or were not properly trained. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >all the pressure on a floor jack it will fall quickly. Even quicker >with more weight on the jack. That's what nobody knows, and that's a problem. But not THE problem. THE problem is your car hit the ground with no wheels on it. THAT's the problem. How fast did it hit? Put a junker on there, start the videocamera, and hit the release lever. IOW, how much time/money do you want to "invest" in this crime mystery to get satisfaction. You know Sam's Club is =not= going to cooperate unless under authority of Law, so you can add legal fees to this, to get a Court Order for the *test.* Lg >>Very good find. I don't think the lift is defective though. I think the >>workers were neglected the safety locks or were not properly trained. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >Lg An attorney is the ONLY way to get their attention. >> FWIW, these are some pics I took on Monday after the accident. Its not a >> lift that locks into place. I circled the spots were it left marks on the [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > enough to drop into position, AND then the hose or hydraulic cylinder > decided to go poof, well... But they raised the car on that same lift to put the wheels back on, so it couldn't have broken a hose. It almost had to have just slid forward off the lift. Bob > See, bob doesn't KNOW what lift was used. My hydraulic jacks fold up > like a cheap Chinese suitcase when I release the valve _quickly_. I > have to do it incrementally, or the car comes crashing to earth. But the OP clearly stated that it was a lift, not a floor jack that was used. The OP also clearly stated that the doors of his vehicle were dented/damaged, this was no doubt caused by the hoist arms that had swung clear from the under chassis area. I've seen this exact mishap occur at a dealership I worked at 20 years ago, the mechanic involved was coked up and had rushed setting the lift arms, when he lowered the car, the hoist chattered and because the lift arms weren't positioned all the way in, they swung out, the car fell about three feet, it was bent like a banana. So, while it is possible to drop a car from a hoist, it is not possible for a hoist to lower fast enough to cause the incident as described, the reason is that; right -at- the hydraulic cylinder the fluid path is restricted such that the hydraulic fluid can not escape fast enough to lower the car quickly, you could chop the hose or cut the pipe in two and the car would still lower at the restricted speed. This is all part of the safety standards that all lifts must meet before they can be sold. larrymoencurly relates his experience from when he was a kid, obviously long enough ago that it predates the implementation of the safety standards I've described. For the OP: You really, really don't want that Mazda any more, it's going to have hidden damage that Mr. Mazda himself won't be able to detect and you -will- at some point be forced to sign off on the damage claim, leaving you stuck for the duration. Shop for a comparable car, settle for the amount that it will take to put your butt in the seat of the shopped for car. Do NOT accept a wholesale settlement unless you have wholesale buying privileges at an auto auction or such. >>> A hoist cannot lower a car fast enough to do that kind of damage. It >>> could [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Lg Still playing the part of a fool I see. You think I'm mistaken about something and you get all exited like you've won the damn lottery or something.... lol Do you think for one second that a hoist would be designed so a vehicle could drop like a rock when the release lever is pulled? Remember, your floor jack is designed to jack a car up far enough to get a jack stand under it. A hoist is designed to support a car while someone works under it. You can't compare one to the other. Bob >>>> A hoist cannot lower a car fast enough to do that kind of damage. It >>>> could [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >> >> Lg ============================================================= >Still playing the part of a fool I see. I think you are a fool. I don't even know why I haven't killfiled you yet. > You think I'm mistaken about >something and you get all exited like you've won the damn lottery or >something.... lol Just pointing out the obvious, to someone who walks right by it everyday. >Do you think for one second that a hoist would be designed so a vehicle >could drop like a rock when the release lever is pulled? Remember, your >floor jack is designed to jack a car up far enough to get a jack stand under >it. A hoist is designed to support a car while someone works under it. You >can't compare one to the other. > Bob From the looks of the hoist photographed by OP, it is hard to tell what there is or isn't in the way of safety devices. OP should take more photos of the lift, as well as perceived vehicle damage. I am surprised OP hasn't a photo album by now of both the car and the lift. It isn't like it costs anything to take photos these days. Lg >>>A hoist cannot lower a car fast enough to do that kind of damage. It could >>>have slid off if the hoist wasn't set properly but the way you describe [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > See, bob doesn't KNOW what lift was used *ANY* full-vehicle lift used in a professional shop will have a safety interlock system that prevents the lift from lowering accidentally. And The operator has to take two actions- retracting the saftey pawls AND lowering the lift mechanism to lower the car. Cars can fall off jacks, but lifts don't normally drop several feet. And on top of that, no lift that I know of will drop rapidly, except a hydraulic lift if a hose or pipe ruptures. Electric ones won't because they're normally jackscrew types where the motors have to spin under power to LOWER the car as well as raise it. I'm not saying it didn't happen- making a lift idiot-proof only breeds better idiots. But it does sound fishy. >>>>A hoist cannot lower a car fast enough to do that kind of damage. It could >>>>have slid off if the hoist wasn't set properly but the way you describe [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >I'm not saying it didn't happen- making a lift idiot-proof only breeds >better idiots. But it does sound fishy. Well I can =see= the purported cement damage from where OP claims his rotors hit the ground. That's about it. Which is strange indeed. Were it my vehicle, I would have taken a lot of photos for insurance claim purposes. Of course, OP didn't have a camera with him when the incident allegedly took place, but returned to the scene some time thereafter. Notwithstanding, I would still have photos of the vehicle itself, at least the underside, where alleged damage took place. For example, the impacted oil sump pan, the rotors with the wheels off, and such. Maybe snooping under the car with a trouble light looking for frame damage, or other things like an impact spot on a transmission. Right now we have nothing to go on in the way of *physical evidence.* Maybe the claims adjustor has this material, but nobody on the n/g here has seen any evidence of the extend of alleged damage to the vehicle. So it is almost impossible to make informed comment about it. Lg >>>>>A hoist cannot lower a car fast enough to do that kind of damage. It >>>>>could [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >>they're normally jackscrew types where the motors have to spin under >>power to LOWER the car as well as raise it. The hydraulic ones won't drop rapidly if a hose breaks either. Like aarcuda said, they have an oriface at the hydraulic cylinder to restrict how fast they can come down. >>I'm not saying it didn't happen- making a lift idiot-proof only breeds >>better idiots. But it does sound fishy. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > incident allegedly took place, but returned to the scene some time > thereafter. No one said his car didn't hit the ground, just that it probably slid off the hoist and not because the hoist dropped like a rock when they decided to lower it. > Notwithstanding, I would still have photos of the vehicle itself, at > least the underside, where alleged damage took place. For example, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Lg Making uninformed comments is what you do best Larry. Bob >>>>>>A hoist cannot lower a car fast enough to do that kind of damage. It >>>>>>could [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] >Making uninformed comments is what you do best Larry. > Bob Stalking me, is what YOU do best. Are you queer for me? Have you told your wife yet that you prefer swinging dick over her rotten snatch? > Stalking me, is what YOU do best. Are you queer for me? Have you > told your wife yet that you prefer swinging dick over her rotten > snatch? Larry, you poor dumb sh.t..... you attacked my post to start this, before that I'd ignored your BS for some time now. So if there is any stalking going on here it's by you. And the crack about my wife isn't even worthy of a reply, it's just a meaningless insult made by a small minded individual who couldn't come up with anything original. Bob >> Stalking me, is what YOU do best. Are you queer for me? Have you >> told your wife yet that you prefer swinging dick over her rotten [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >with anything original. > Bob You're a living example of what fetal alcohol syndrome can do to a person. >Making uninformed comments is what you do best Larry. > Bob And I especially note your *fights* on the net with anyone and everyone, especially one in alt.rec.guns or somesuch. With Charlie Cloud. Go to Google Copy and paste: "Bob" <bob@n0spam.net Click on groups Read the mail. Bob is a usenet fuckup. No doubt about it. He does this with all kinds of people, in all kinds of groups. The record speaks for itself. Lg >>Making uninformed comments is what you do best Larry. >> Bob > > And I especially note your *fights* on the net with anyone and > everyone, especially one in alt.rec.guns or somesuch. With Charlie > Cloud. It's funny you should mention Charlie. He likes to talk smart about stuff he knows nothing about. Kind of like you Larry >>>Making uninformed comments is what you do best Larry. >>> Bob [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >It's funny you should mention Charlie. He likes to talk smart about stuff he >knows nothing about. Kind of like you Larry What have I talked smart about that I know nothing about: Cites? Lg >>>>Making uninformed comments is what you do best Larry. >>>> Bob [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Lg Here is the most recent example: "Lawrence Glickman" <Lawrence_Glickman@comcast.net> wrote in message news:7p3ks1lt1l1lpm4gdn4olpdq85h805klh9@4ax.com... >>Bob wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >>> car, >>> just wondering what really happened. > See, bob doesn't KNOW what lift was used. My hydraulic jacks fold up > like a cheap Chinese suitcase when I release the valve _quickly_. I [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Lg I own one lift similar to the one in question and two full size hoists which I use every day. I KNOW how they work. And yet you make comments saying otherwise. That's talking smart about something you know nothing about. Bob None of this is doing anyone any good and is probably just getting us both added to some killfiles so this will be my last post on this particular topic. Have a good night. Bob >>>>>Making uninformed comments is what you do best Larry. >>>>> Bob [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] >otherwise. That's talking smart about something you know nothing about. > Bob ============================================================== > None of this is doing anyone any good and is probably just getting us both >added to some killfiles so this will be my last post on this particular >topic. Have a good night. > Bob Bob shows a glimmer of "Hope" The "burden of proof of damages" rests with the OP in this case. If he cannot demonstrate those damages, he has no case. I see a similar situation when a car *taps* another at a red light. The drivers get out of their cars and start having hissy fits over this and that, when it is apparent that no visible damage has occured. Then they tie up the intersection by not moving their cars until the police arrive ( which is illegal, BTW ). This goes on and on, but there is still no visible damage to either vehicle. I see it more often than others, because I live in a very congested and hi-traffic area. It is like: "You bumped into me" "yes, so?" and is taken as an insult by the car in front, although the liability ALWAYS lies with the vehicle in back...the one that caused the impact. Part of this is Detroit's fault, for not designing vehicles that can sustain more than a 5 mile/per/hour impact without sustaining significant damage. Bumpers not at the same height is a perfect example. Major problem when an SUV and a compact car come together. With this, I have too much experience. I once nosed under an SUV that made a sudden stop in front of me, lifting it up onto the hood of my car ( at the time ). It was all over in a flash. His vehicle? No detectible damage. My vehicle...totaled. Lg > No one said his car didn't hit the ground, just that it probably slid off > the hoist and not because the hoist dropped like a rock when they decided to > lower it. And now that he finally posted pictures, its even more clear. Its one of those simple tire-changing lifts that simply "high centers" the car under the framerails. If the lift did "drop" all the way down, it would still be carrying most of the weight on the frame rails, and only the rotors/drums would be at risk. If the car tipped off one end or the other due to not being properly centered on the lift, that's a different story. >> No one said his car didn't hit the ground, just that it probably slid off >> the hoist and not because the hoist dropped like a rock when they decided [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > If the car tipped off one end or the other due to not being properly > centered on the lift, that's a different story. That almost had to be the case. The original poster said the car wasn't lined up right with the lift afterwards either. If it dropped straight down it should have still been sitting on the arms. Bob I have a lot of experience with smaller body shops. I would insist that your vevicle is taken to and repaired by a Dealership. Dealerships are very expensive because they have a lot of overhead, latest diagnostic equipment, and their reputation is very important. They will also insist that everything is checked out because they have more to loose if it isn't. Just my 2 cents Lets hope they dont offer you a lifetime supply of milk, 55 gallons of Nyquil or a cord of tampons as settlement.:) Seriously, dont forget dealer's also are more "factory spec" oriented. If you go there for repairs, they'll bring it to factory spec, or they should. Those pictures are fine except to really figure the impact force you'd need to take that lift, put some controlled test weight on it, drop it, measure the indentation into the concretes hardness and so forth, then figure what partso of the frame or whatever have actually taken the brunt of this force and if the whole car hit all at once or unevenly bla bla. Its a lot to go through but I don't even think someone getting killed in this incident would warrant that sort of analysis and again, thank goodness someones kid was running under there at the time. If the oil pan is caved in, surely it will need to be changed, but if you have that and some door damage, why not have that fixed, get a clean bill of health from the dealer, and move on? Like I've had in accident repairs, every little thing that now will go on , you'll blame on this incident, every rattle, every creak. Can we ask what state this place was in? I want to avoid the place. >I have a lot of experience with smaller body shops. I would insist that > your vevicle is taken to and repaired by a Dealership. Dealerships are [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Just my 2 cents > I have a lot of experience with smaller body shops. I would insist that > your vevicle is taken to and repaired by a Dealership. Dealerships are > very expensive because they have a lot of overhead, latest diagnostic > equipment, and their reputation is very important. They will also > insist that everything is checked out because they have more to loose > if it isn't. And an overabundance of Mr. Lautrec is the last thing anyone needs. > The car was towed to a body shop and its pretty much in limbo there. > Being that this is a japanese unibody car that weighs around 3400lbs or [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Any advice or suggestions? I doubt the lift can lower (normally) fast enough to cause shock damage to anything.. I'd be looking for impact damage. Have the alignment checked, scan the computer for codes (an indie shop can do this also) and look underneath for impact damage. As someone else noted, everything that happens to this car from this point onward might cause you to suspect it was from the lift drop.. unless you have an emotional attachment to the car you might consider looking for something else. Jim |
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