Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / January 2006
Highway tailgater and etc - not a car mechanical question
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grunt262@verizon.net - 16 Jan 2006 12:26 GMT This is not a car mechinical question but I thought I ask for opinions in my favorite newsgroup.
On my daily commute, I drive about 30 min over 4-lane highway (2 lanes each direction) where speed limit is mostly 65 mhp. I try to driver between 65 and 70 _and_ at constant speed. Sometimes, when I pass even slower car/truck, a faster driving car pulls from behind and tailgates me until I move to slower lane.
I hate someone tailgating me regardless reason, especially when I am driving within/close to speed limit and I don't want to speed up (and spend gas unnecessarily in the process) just to get out of way of faster cars.
The other day, as I was moving to right lane (slower lane), this pickup started to tailgate me. Somehow I got ticked off and moved my car back to the lane (left lane) where I was. This pickup driver didn't want to slow down and ended up passing me by left shoulder (to the left of left lane).
Not to mention road rage, etc., here's my question. If something happens in this scenario, would I be liable for changing mind and not switching the lane, or the other guy who was tailgating me.
Nate Nagel - 16 Jan 2006 12:57 GMT > This is not a car mechinical question but I thought I ask for opinions > in [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > the > lane, or the other guy who was tailgating me. Either way, I think that was an a.shole move on your part. I probably would have passed you on the shoulder too. It's not your place to enforce the speed limit, and the left lane is for passing, not for blocking.
Hopefully this is not reflective of how you usually drive.
nate
 Signature replace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
ShazWozza - 16 Jan 2006 13:08 GMT > Not to mention road rage, etc., here's my question. If something > happens > in this scenario, would I be liable for changing mind and not switching > the > lane, or the other guy who was tailgating me. You would be accused of being a trolling fuckwit.
Brian - 16 Jan 2006 14:46 GMT You're supposed to drive in the right lane unless you are actually passing someone. In the situation you describe, you would be charged with dangerous driving, mind you the other guy would be too.
Brian
> This is not a car mechinical question but I thought I ask for opinions > in [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > the > lane, or the other guy who was tailgating me. Mike Romain - 16 Jan 2006 15:11 GMT In Ontario Canada they would bust your sorry a.s for blocking the free movement of traffic and hopefully get you for 'road rage' and an unsafe lane change as well as dangerous driving.
Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> This is not a car mechinical question but I thought I ask for opinions > in [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > the > lane, or the other guy who was tailgating me. HLS@nospam.nix - 16 Jan 2006 18:51 GMT > The other day, as I was moving to right lane (slower lane), this > pickup started to tailgate me. Somehow I got ticked off and moved [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > the > lane, or the other guy who was tailgating me. You know you are supposed to use the left lane for passing and the right for driving. (Not that anybody DOES it here, including the Highway Patrol).
You have every right to fear tailgaters, and you do not have to go over the speed limit just because they are pushing you. They are the scofflaws, not you.
By the same token, you shouldn't do anything to provoke or endanger them.
Admittedly, I have tapped the brake light at times to signal that they are too close and to please give me space. Maybe that is ill advised too, but I know of no other way to keep them off my a.s.
I drive 65-70 too.
grunt262@verizon.net - 16 Jan 2006 20:58 GMT > > The other day, as I was moving to right lane (slower lane), this > > pickup started to tailgate me. Somehow I got ticked off and moved [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > I drive 65-70 too. I get impression that people who replied thus far may be thinking that I drive slow in fast lane (left lane). I don't. I may not have been explicit about it. I do drive in the right lane (slow lane) at about 65/70 mph, and use left lane only to pass slower car than me, in which case, I do move
to left lane (I make sure to use blinker), pass slower car, and then use blinker again and move to right slow lane again.
I do get pissed is when fast cars come from behind and tailgate me during the time I am using left lane to pass slower (than me) car. My situation was about cars tailgating me during the time I use left lane to pass even slower (than me) car. What I described was one time -recent- deal.
Steve - 16 Jan 2006 21:39 GMT > I do get pissed is when fast cars come from behind and tailgate me > during [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > even > slower (than me) car. What I described was one time -recent- deal. I get pissed at that also, but the bottom line is two wrongs don't make a right. You deliberately blocked the guy. Now if an accident had occurred, I think there's a strong argument that the other guy would be at fault. In this scenario, you could conceivably have been forced to do what you did if, for example, you spotted a big piece of road debris at the last second. The other guy definitely didn't leave room for the unforseen. But since there wasn't any road debris or family of skunks or any other real cause, you'd be at least partially at fault in this particular instance too.
Mike Romain - 17 Jan 2006 00:40 GMT > > > The other day, as I was moving to right lane (slower lane), this > > > pickup started to tailgate me. Somehow I got ticked off and moved [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > even > slower (than me) car. What I described was one time -recent- deal. I have had marked police cars come up on me like that when I am passing and I do speed up to get by and clear the lane, then tuck back in. There were no issues about going a little over 70 mph to do this.
I have also seen the police hit their bull horn and tell someone to speed up and get over. (I drive an open Jeep so could hear them easily)
'You' had a road rage incident and any witnesses to an accident when you cut off the passing vehicle would say so because of the lane shuffle....
Not a good thing to do.
The passer was already committed in his mind and to suddenly hit the brakes at speed can be more dangerous than taking a paved shoulder. He had a pickup, maybe he had a load of metal plates in it and to hit the brakes fast could be a disaster.... Or maybe he had bad brakes that he knew would grab and spin him out, or any number of reasons...
Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
Nate Nagel - 17 Jan 2006 01:07 GMT >>I do get pissed is when fast cars come from behind and tailgate me >>during [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > and I do speed up to get by and clear the lane, then tuck back in. > There were no issues about going a little over 70 mph to do this. While it's the right thing to do, I wouldn't recommend that anyone actually do that. There was a cop in Annapolis a while back (like 2-3 years) that was pulling people over for speeding when they sped up to get out of his way. I know of at least 5 people that got tickets that way. I personally think that that's a real a-hole move, but hey, if there's a risk of me getting a ticket, the cop can wait. All because of a couple a-hole cops, too.
nate
 Signature replace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
Don Bruder - 17 Jan 2006 01:37 GMT > >>I do get pissed is when fast cars come from behind and tailgate me > >>during [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > there's a risk of me getting a ticket, the cop can wait. All because of > a couple a-hole cops, too. Ayup...
As far as I'm concerned, unless he's got his flashers on, a cop is "just another car", and gets no special consideration from me, regardless of what he's doing. With flashers, I get out of the way and/or stop (if he's "aiming" at me) but otherwise... <shrug> He's just another road hazard to be dealt with, and doesn't get handed any special treatment just 'cause he's got a stupid-looking paint job and a bunch of fancy gizmos on his ride.
 Signature Don Bruder - dakidd@sonic.net - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist, or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow" somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd> for more info
Steve - 18 Jan 2006 01:03 GMT > Ayup... > > As far as I'm concerned, unless he's got his flashers on, a cop is "just > another car", and gets no special consideration from me, regardless of > what he's doing. And if he DOES have his flashers on, I STILL slow down to pull over to the right, even if it means falling in behind. Its legal and safe, and completely un-ticketable.
Mike Romain - 17 Jan 2006 14:37 GMT > >>I do get pissed is when fast cars come from behind and tailgate me > >>during [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > nate The law here says a person isn't allowed to impede the flow of traffic, there is no mention of speed. Make the cop wait and get a ticket.
Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
news - 18 Jan 2006 05:57 GMT >>>>I do get pissed is when fast cars come from behind and tailgate me >>>>during [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > The law here says a person isn't allowed to impede the flow of traffic, > there is no mention of speed. Make the cop wait and get a ticket. The law here says the speed limit sign is the MAXIMUM posted speed. IOW, you cannot under any circumstances exceed this. Period. Not to pass, not because there's an a.shole cop behind you, not because you're late for work. Which sucks when you're passing someone on a two lane highway and they're going just slower than you and instead of riding their a.s all day you'd just like to pass them... and not take all day doing it.
funny story -> my old Jimmy (125 hp 2.8 V6) used to make passing quite the challenge, so I'd lay back and take a "run" at the car I was passing and timing it just right on a two lane highway... I'd usually pass them and hit about 115 km/h (100 zone) before pulling back in (assuming the car I'm passing is doing about 90.) I did the same thing out of habit in my 2001 Trans Am. Once. Whoops. I'm not posting the speed I hit, but it was over the limit. Way over. Like 60 over. Maybe more. Of course, after I stopped giggling, I had to do it again. ;) (I now confine that to the racetrack...)
Ray
Steve - 18 Jan 2006 01:02 GMT >>> I do get pissed is when fast cars come from behind and tailgate me >>> during [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > get out of his way. I know of at least 5 people that got tickets that > way. I once GOT a ticket from a cop doing that very thing.
I personally think that that's a real a-hole move, but hey, if
> there's a risk of me getting a ticket, the cop can wait. All because of > a couple a-hole cops, too. I told the cop *exactly* what I did and that it was because he pulled up so close behind me. He just about had a stroke and said that I was accusing him of "entrapment." I said, "yes, I am." You should have seen the shades of purple the little Napoleon turned. But it was his word against mine, so I took defensive driving rather than fight it. No skin off my nose, I have to take the course every couple of years anyway to be authorized to drive company vehicles when I need to. And now I *slow* to *exactly* the posted limit if a cop pulls up behind me in the left lane, even if it means falling back in behind the car I was passing.
N8N - 18 Jan 2006 01:11 GMT > >>> I do get pissed is when fast cars come from behind and tailgate me > >>> during [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > to *exactly* the posted limit if a cop pulls up behind me in the left > lane, even if it means falling back in behind the car I was passing. Mine was even better - I didn't actually exceed the speed limit, and I know this because I was a) watching my speedo and b) stuck behind a LLBer in fairly heavy traffic. He pulled me over and wrote the ticket anyway. He said that he paced me for 1/3 mile at 73 MPH in a 55... he was full of crap, he was never going that slow, and the next time I drove that stretch of road, I noticed that the speed limit was 65 up until *after* the point at which he turned on his lights to pull me over. So I went to court to fight it because I was all sorts of pissed... that's where I met this girl that had been pulled over by the same cop, she was walking around talking to everyone and it turns out this same cop had been pulling this same trick on lots of people, mostly people driving small, "sporty" cars. The cop didn't show the first time and the judge tried to get me to plead guilty, and told me that if I pled guilty I'd have to come back another day. Well I was SO pissed off at this point that I told him that there was no way I was pleading guilty because I honestly believed that I was innocent and that if I had to come back another day that's what I'd do. (isn't that the biggest load of horseshit you've ever heard in your life?)
on my second court date the judge asked everyone who was issued a ticket by that particular officer to stand, and then said "this is your lucky day, the officer in question won't be here as he is no longer in traffic enforcement, your tickets are dismissed and you are free to leave."
I would REALLY like to know "the rest of the story" as they say... I hope he got a righteous a.s kicking from his supervisor and that it wasn't just a transfer or something.
nate
HLS@nospam.nix - 17 Jan 2006 02:38 GMT "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> I have had marked police cars come up on me like that when I am passing > and I do speed up to get by and clear the lane, then tuck back in. > There were no issues about going a little over 70 mph to do this. > > I have also seen the police hit their bull horn and tell someone to > speed up and get over. (I drive an open Jeep so could hear them easily) Headed to Houston recently, the freaking Texas Highway Patrol was in the left lane (passing lane) doing 10-15 mph slower than the limit.
People hung back for miles behind these SOB's, afraid to speed up and pass in the right hand lane. (This isn't a problem here). If I could have gotten up with these guys, I would have moved past them on the right.
They kept this up for ca 15-20 miles and then pulled into a shopping center.
Pisses me off badly. Of all people, the THP should drive friendly. I have been thinking about lodging a written complaint with the state. There is no excuse for this sort of behavior.
HLS@nospam.nix - 17 Jan 2006 01:06 GMT > I do get pissed is when fast cars come from behind and tailgate me > during [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > even > slower (than me) car. What I described was one time -recent- deal. The person approaching from behind has the legal obligation to maintain a specified and safe distance from you.
If he hits you from behind, in this state he is automatically guilty.
Raymond J. Henry - 17 Jan 2006 02:48 GMT >The person approaching from behind has the legal obligation to >maintain a specified and safe distance from you. > > If he hits you from behind, in this state he is automatically guilty. In no state is the rear vehicle "automatically guilty" if a lane change takes place immediately prior to the impact.
HLS@nospam.nix - 17 Jan 2006 12:21 GMT > >The person approaching from behind has the legal obligation to > >maintain a specified and safe distance from you. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > In no state is the rear vehicle "automatically guilty" if a lane > change takes place immediately prior to the impact. No, of course, you cannot swerve in front of someone and avoid culpability for a resulting accident.
A person following you has the responsibility to maintain a proper speed and distance however, and even if you lock up your brakes, and he hits you, he is normally at fault. The tailgater might argue that your actions were reckless.
Steve - 18 Jan 2006 01:06 GMT >>The person approaching from behind has the legal obligation to >>maintain a specified and safe distance from you. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > In no state is the rear vehicle "automatically guilty" if a lane > change takes place immediately prior to the impact. In fact, there is a provision in which some state laws say that the car behind had "control of the lane" if he hits a car that rapidly pulls in front of him, it is thus the fault of the driver in front.
HLS@nospam.nix - 19 Jan 2006 01:10 GMT > In fact, there is a provision in which some state laws say that the car > behind had "control of the lane" if he hits a car that rapidly pulls in > front of him, it is thus the fault of the driver in front. In this state, you MUST maintain adequate distance from the car in front to be able to avoid a collision. If you hit the guy in front of you, the burden of proof is YOURS, not his.
Now, swerving into another lane in front of someone who has control of that lane is a different kettle of fish.
EatMe - 19 Jan 2006 04:23 GMT >> I do drive in the right lane (slow lane) at about 65/70 mph, and use left lane only to pass slower car than me, in which case, I do move
to left lane (I make sure to use blinker), pass slower car, and then use blinker again and move to right slow lane again. <<
But do you use the accelerator to pass or do you just sedately take 10 minutes to pass a VW Beetle?? Passing isn't the same as blocking.
grunt262@verizon.net - 19 Jan 2006 07:32 GMT > >> I do drive in the right lane (slow lane) at about 65/70 > mph, and [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > But do you use the accelerator to pass or do you just sedately take 10 > minutes to pass a VW Beetle?? Passing isn't the same as blocking. If you have to know, I do use accelerator so that car moves and no, I don't take 10 minutes to pass a beetle. Actually I see more beetle is as in Beetle Bailey. Passing isn't the same as blocking.
rwdr.net@gmail.com - 20 Jan 2006 03:38 GMT Well your always going to get alot of rants on this topic.
I would like to tell you that I have personally seen someone die horribly, from the same actions you took.
It's a gray area, it's hard to say who's fault with 100% certainty, but the guy that died in my mind was innocent of any mal-intention. The guy that did what you did, was guilty, and exacted his own justice, as a result several people were injurted, 100's of thousands of dollars of property was damaged, and a human life was taken.
A guy driving a late model camaro was going fast, really fast, tripple speed fast in some spurts on a local freeway. The road, his car, and him the driver were all very capable of the speeds he was traveling. None the less it was illegal, and he was in the wrong for going this fast.
So here is the complication, some guy like you, was having a bad day, looked in the rear view mirror, and saw that the other driver had basically committed to passing through traffic in a particular lane, since it was the only available window through traffic on a 4 lane highway, it was obvious where he was going to go even if he wasn't already in that lane.
The camaro driver carried on in that lane at high speed, and you could see him coming for a long long distance back on a straight stretch of road.
The f!@# A@!#$ decided, hey, I'm going to teach this guy a lesson for driving fast, he pulled in front of the guy when it was far far too late.
There is no man made machine that could have stopped or even slowed down to less than lethal impact speeds.
WHO put them in this situation by his own will? Yes, the man who decided he was going to teach everyone a less that day. He literally caused an accident that never would have happened that day, on that stretch of road, at that very instant.
He waited until the man had no were else to go, and cut off his window, he had already commited beyond the point of return, and because of this jerk, an accident was not avoidable.
The man did as best he could to avoid the car that swerved in front of him, the guy actually missed several cars and hit the wall on purpose to miss them, his car then flipped over, and landed on HIM!!! (T-tops) the car then proceded to sit on top of this poor guy, and drag him down the freeway for over 1500 ft.
Basically this guy was the worlds biggest grease stain on the freeway, being ground down to nothing by his car as it crushed him down the paved freeway; because some a.shole decided he could play judge jury and executioner, and in one swift moved he caused alot of harm to alot of people.
If that was my son that died, I would have beat that instigators a.s to a bloody pulp with my bare hands.
I don't give a sh.t if he was driving fast, there is no excuse for the malicous actions captain speed enforcement took, and he is at fault. The sad thing is that he gets to live the rest of his sad pathetic days, while his lunacy ended the life of another.
I may tell another story about my pet peaves on the E-way, but that's enough for my blood pressure for now :(
grunt262@verizon.net - 20 Jan 2006 05:25 GMT Let's take your story on face value. Why is it that an average joe driver minding own business has to be chased out of lane just because some wacko decided that a lane has to be available on short notice? Worse, somebody has to come up with some story about pulling right into the nose and think all cases are same. You are talking about apples and oranges.
No matter how you slice it, let's face it, all you folks who take the side of tailgater are egoistic roadsters who think road is yours for keep, and any vehicle slower than you in front of you are at your mercy. Tailgater is not a guy who goes triple faster than speed limit and get cut off at the last minute. That's an apple.
Tailgater is a guy who goes fast enough but had plenty of time and distance to slow down to let vehicle in front to move to the right (slow) lane, but decide to put his vehicle right behind the rear bumper of slower going front vehicle, so that the other driver felt threatened as if being chased out, and decided not change lane on a split of moment decision. This is an orange.
I don't see how your apple story compares to orange, except for your apparent inclination to declare road you travel as your own.
If you flip the card, here's one thing you know to be true deep in your heart but you don't say, that regardless the guilt of guy who cut off in front, Camero guy in your story may not be dead if not for speed (triple speed fast, you wrote). You don't bad mouth about speed. You rant about what gets in front. You love pleasure but you ignore potential consequences in a world full of traps.
> Well your always going to get alot of rants on this topic. > [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > I may tell another story about my pet peaves on the E-way, but that's > enough for my blood pressure for now :( Don Bruder - 20 Jan 2006 14:18 GMT > If you flip the card, here's one thing you know to be true deep in > your heart but you don't say, that regardless the guilt of guy who > cut off in front, Camero guy in your story may not be dead if not for > speed (triple speed fast, you wrote). Versus *WOULD NOT BE DEAD*, regardless of how fast he was moving, if it weren't for the self-appointed cop pulling out in front of him.
> You don't bad mouth about > speed. You rant about what gets in front. You love pleasure but you > ignore potential consequences in a world full of traps. *SPEED* is not the root cause of wrecks, although it can contribute. On the other hand, a prime cause of wrecks is idiots not moving at the prevailing speed, and even worse, deciding that they're going to be the one to "teach that speeder a lesson". In a nutshell, move at the speed of the traffic around you, and unless you're actively passing, *GET THE f.ck OUT OF THE LEFT LANE!* And even more important: Unless you've got a badge and a gun and drive a vehicle marked "Sheriff", "Police", or similar, *YOU ARE NOT A COP*, and it isn't your business to be "teaching speeders a lesson", regardless of how fast they might be going.
Follow that one simple rule - Move with the current flow, using proper lane discipline at whatever speed that might be - and barring mechanical failure or a drunk, chances are good that you'll never even have a "close call", let alone an actual wreck.
And leave being a cop to the cops.
 Signature Don Bruder - dakidd@sonic.net - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist, or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow" somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd> for more info
grunt262@verizon.net - 21 Jan 2006 03:36 GMT > > If you flip the card, here's one thing you know to be true deep in > > your heart but you don't say, that regardless the guilt of guy who [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > the other hand, a prime cause of wrecks is idiots not moving at the > prevailing speed, and even worse, deciding that they're going to be the On face value, nobody denies triple fast going guy died because someone cut him off right under the nose. I simply wrote the guy may not be dead had he gone slower regardless the guilt of guy who cut him off. I see that you don't deny my assertion.
Just like the other post, you are talking apples and oranges. Super fast moving guy plus someone cutting him off right under the nose versus reasonably fast moving car that had seen plenty of blinkers and distance to allow the vehicle in front of him to pass and safely move to the right lane.
> one to "teach that speeder a lesson". In a nutshell, move at the speed > of the traffic around you, and unless you're actively passing, *GET THE [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > And leave being a cop to the cops. Those who routinely use right lane and use left lane only to pass are not ones out there trying to teach that speeder a lesson. They are ones just trying to go from A to B, which certainly does not include cutting somebody off.
I am thinking that those out there to "teach that speeder a lesson" as you wrote are ones who got royally fed up with high beams, honking, foul language and finger pointing just because he was minding his own business.
Maybe when everything fails, sometimes something clicks and you decide to take measures on your own hand? That'll be American way, no? To borrow your own language, GET THE F-CK SLOW DOWN AND WAIT UNTIL CAR IN FRONT OF YOU SAFELY MOVE TO RIGHT LANE, AND DON'T TAILGATE. I DON"T NEED TO MOVE AT 80 MPH JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE GOING AT 80 MPH.
Sad thing is you may yell but at the end, you are still at the mercy of that car in front of you.
news - 20 Jan 2006 18:01 GMT > Let's take your story on face value. Why is it that an average joe > driver [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > nose and think all cases are same. You are talking about apples and > oranges. You sound like you're still trying to justify your behaviour.
What the tailgater did was being a dick. You were also being a dick.
It doesn't matter who's the bigger dick if you're both wrong. Possibly dead wrong.
Ray
grunt262@verizon.net - 21 Jan 2006 03:56 GMT Excuse me. My intent was not to justify anything. But, if it comes to it, I see it as my right that I don't have to accelerate to say 80 mph just to make some other wacko happy.
ray - 21 Jan 2006 17:41 GMT > Excuse me. My intent was not to justify anything. But, > if it comes to it, I see it as my right that I don't have to > accelerate to say 80 mph just to make some other > wacko happy. yes, it's your RIGHT to move back over to the RIGHT lane to let the other car go.
You might have seen the signs: Slower traffic keep RIGHT.
If you're doing 70 and he's doing 80, you're slower. Please move to the RIGHT. In many places, it's the LAW.
Thank you for not driving like a moron.
grunt262@verizon.net - 21 Jan 2006 22:29 GMT > > Excuse me. My intent was not to justify anything. But, > > if it comes to it, I see it as my right that I don't have to [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Thank you for not driving like a moron. You -like many/most others in this thread- are blowing horn at apple while I am talking about orange. It's incredible reading comprehension problem or what. All I've been saying thus far is, I use right lane and use left lane only to pass cars even slower than me on right line. Then I move to the right lane. Then wackos going at say 80 mph comes from behind and tailgate as if road ought to be open for them at short notice. Hell with it.
Thank you for not writing like a moron.
ray - 22 Jan 2006 05:28 GMT >>>Excuse me. My intent was not to justify anything. But, >>>if it comes to it, I see it as my right that I don't have to [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Thank you for not writing like a moron. but that's not what you were writing about. You wanted vindication for being an a.shole and "blocking" some guy whom you thought was going too fast.
Remember, everyone going slower than you is an idiot, and everyone going faster than you is a maniac.
Whatever. Stop driving offensively and stop worrying about controlling other traffic - just drive safely and if the other guy is a complete maniac a.shole, just let him go. Arrive in one piece.
Geez.
grunt262@verizon.net - 22 Jan 2006 18:23 GMT > > You -like many/most others in this thread- are blowing horn > > at apple while I am talking about orange. It's incredible reading [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Geez. You say I want what? Vindication? My initial question was, would I be held liable should anything happened. Get over reading comprehension problem and speed complex.
My beef is a guy whom I thought was going too fast *and* was tailgating me, not allowing me to move over right lane safely, where I usually drive. Say you love tailgaters just few feet behind you when you are at 70 mps.
Not everyone going slower than you is an idiot, and not everyone going faster than you is a maniac. Maniac is a guy who wants lane available all the time on short notice, and idiot is a guy is drives on left lane all the time regardless speed he's on. I see both type all the time.
news - 23 Jan 2006 00:54 GMT >>>You -like many/most others in this thread- are blowing horn >>>at apple while I am talking about orange. It's incredible reading [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > held liable should anything happened. Get over reading comprehension > problem and speed complex. if you caused the accident and it could be proved then, yes, you could (and should) be held liable for the accident. Running someone off the road because you don't agree with his driving is what you might call road rage... or just plain and simply being a.shole.
grunt262@verizon.net - 24 Jan 2006 05:58 GMT > if you caused the accident and it could be proved then, yes, you could > (and should) be held liable for the accident. Running someone off the > road because you don't agree with his driving is what you might call > road rage... or just plain and simply being a.shole. There is precisely the argument. Liability comes from established guilt in accident or strong evidence of such, I presume. You already concluded the car in front -being tailgated- drove tailgater off the road. But, what tells you for sure what drove the guy off the road?
The guy in front is likely argue that he had blinker on, and was about to move to right lane, but noticed -from peripheral vision- the tailgater was right behind him blocking rear view, so he in split second decision, thought the tailgater was to move to right lane, so he corrected his car back to left lane (where he was).
Then, by his turn, tailgater, because he was so close to the front car's bumper, had no room to maneuver, so instead of slowing down, as he should have done, sped up even faster and drove over left shoulder - and hit median
hypothetically and got killed hypothetically speaking, etc.
What say you?
EatMe - 23 Jan 2006 01:00 GMT >>My beef is a guy whom I thought was going too fast *and* was tailgating me,<<
And your judgement of "too fast" was based on what precisely? Doppler radar? Or indignation?
And given your judgement of "too fast" please define "tail gating"?
grunt262@verizon.net - 24 Jan 2006 06:03 GMT Like, how do you define "king of road," and given your definition of "king of road," please define "palace of road."
EatMe - 25 Jan 2006 03:53 GMT > Like, how do you define "king of road," and given your > definition of "king of road," please define "palace of > road." Yep- you do fit the definition of "CruiseContorlIdiot" to a "T". RIght out of Road & Track. 30 seconds on the autobahn would certainly change your happy tune skippy, if you lived.
grunt262@verizon.net - 25 Jan 2006 06:16 GMT > > Like, how do you define "king of road," and given your > > definition of "king of road," please define "palace of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > out of Road & Track. 30 seconds on the autobahn would certainly change > your happy tune skippy, if you lived. You try to sound tough with words like cretin, idiot and whatnots. That is no way of conducting yourself because dignified replies get respectable words back, even appreciation. You've been stail for awhile as far as I am concerned. Have your last scribble. You are out of my picture.
EatMe - 23 Jan 2006 01:06 GMT >>You say I want what? Vindication? My initial question was, would I be held liable should anything happened. <<
Yes. You are a pudknocking asswipe of the first degree.
Bow down before the alter of left land abuse and pray for absolution you worthless cretin.
AND DON'T DO IT AGAIN! AND DON"T THREATEN YOUR BETTERS WITH HOLLOW RETALIATION!!
Thank you. And yes, dim bulb- I do in fact, own the road BECAUSE I PASS AND GET OUT OF THE WAY AND DON'T LOOK TO USENET TO JUSTIFY MY LACK OF SENSE!!
grunt262@verizon.net - 24 Jan 2006 05:38 GMT > >>You say I want what? Vindication? My initial question was, would I > be > held liable should anything happened. << > > Yes. > You are a pudknocking asswipe of the first degree. Reading comprehension problem. Do you watch ABC nightly news and manage to understand news anchor?
> Bow down before the alter of left land abuse and pray for absolution > you worthless cretin. Where did you get your driver ed? It's more likely Turn your head slightly left quick over your shoulder, give blinker, if safe to change into left lane then only then proceed. No, in your case, you may drive into median.
By the way, cretin is one who has no senseble argument and then start calling others names.
> AND DON'T DO IT AGAIN! AND DON"T THREATEN YOUR BETTERS WITH HOLLOW > RETALIATION!! Tailgate next time and you'll see what may happen to you.
> Thank you. You are welcome. This is one lesson you learn only in Internet: do not tailgate. No charge.
> And yes, dim bulb- I do in fact, own the road BECAUSE I PASS AND GET > OUT OF THE WAY AND DON'T LOOK TO USENET TO JUSTIFY MY LACK OF SENSE!! I knew, in spite your earlier denial, you are one speeder and tailgater. Just remember next time you drive 100 mph in 65 mph highway, car that swerves under your nose could be your kid sister reaching for her baby's bottle, your granma in diabetic shock, or your uncle having heart attack -or a family of skunks for that matter- or even a fed-up guy having bad day out there to teach you a lesson (to borrow other guy's phrase).
Again to borrow your own calling, never seen a cretin claim road as his own - even in Internet. Don't get the wrong idea that name calling makes you as smarter than what you are.
Steve B. - 16 Jan 2006 23:32 GMT >Not to mention road rage, etc., here's my question. If something >happens in this scenario, would I be liable for changing mind and not switching >the lane, or the other guy who was tailgating me. If you intentionally went back in to the left lane you would be just as guilty of road rage as he was. I think you are worried about wrong thing though. Who cares who is liable for the accident? Decent odds are that one or both of you are going to be dead after the accident occurs. Yes the other driver was a total idiot but I don't think it would comfort your family any to know that you died to make that point.
Steve B.
Bob M. - 17 Jan 2006 01:19 GMT > This is not a car mechinical question but I thought I ask for opinions > in [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > until I move > to slower lane. Leave law enforcement to the cops! If someone is tailgating you, move over! Your life will be less stressful and so will the other guy's.
HLS@nospam.nix - 17 Jan 2006 02:32 GMT "Bob M." <no@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Ifmdnbntc-
> Leave law enforcement to the cops! If someone is tailgating you, move over! > Your life will be less stressful and so will the other guy's. If he pulled into the left lane, and is STILL being tailgated, where is he supposed to move??
clifto - 17 Jan 2006 05:08 GMT > "Bob M." <no@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Ifmdnbntc- >> Leave law enforcement to the cops! If someone is tailgating you, move [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > supposed > to move?? I see frequent clues along the freeways, in the form of signs that say "SLOWER TRAFFIC KEEP RIGHT".
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Don Bruder - 17 Jan 2006 05:50 GMT > > "Bob M." <no@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Ifmdnbntc- > >> Leave law enforcement to the cops! If someone is tailgating you, move [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I see frequent clues along the freeways, in the form of signs that say > "SLOWER TRAFFIC KEEP RIGHT". Problem is that these days, most folks on the freeways seem to be so dense you could pound a clue into them like a nail and they'd still not notice it...
 Signature Don Bruder - dakidd@sonic.net - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist, or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow" somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd> for more info
Raymond J. Henry - 17 Jan 2006 02:44 GMT >This is not a car mechinical question but I thought I ask for opinions >in [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >the >lane, or the other guy who was tailgating me. So what you're saying is that you deliberately chose to increase the level of danger to occupants of both (or more) vehicles just because someone else was driving poorly?
Regardless of legal liability, driving a motor vehicle carried with it much more than the law dictates. Do you have children?
Theodrake - 17 Jan 2006 16:16 GMT > Regardless of legal liability, driving a motor vehicle carried with it > much more than the law dictates. Do you have children? Hopefully not and we can let natural selection take over.
grunt262@verizon.net - 19 Jan 2006 04:34 GMT Yes, let natural selection take over. Tailgaters be aware. Road is to be shared and it doesn't belong to tailgaters.
grunt262@verizon.net - 19 Jan 2006 04:33 GMT > >This is not a car mechinical question but I thought I ask for opinions > >in [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > level of danger to occupants of both (or more) vehicles just because > someone else was driving poorly? What I am saying is I chose to put tailgater on notice so if he chooses to do it again next time, he'll think twice.
> Regardless of legal liability, driving a motor vehicle carried with it > much more than the law dictates. Do you have children? It certainly does. Doesn't it. Why do you want to know if I have children?
EatMe - 20 Jan 2006 15:46 GMT >>What I am saying is I chose to put tailgater on notice so if he chooses to do it again next time, he'll think twice.
> Regardless of legal liability, driving a motor vehicle carried with it > much more than the law dictates. Do you have children? It certainly does. Doesn't it. Why do you want to know if I have children?<<
So you can compound your stoopidity by having to explain to your family that you're in jail because you were an idiot trying to "teach someone a lesson"? Perhaps you should get a big decal for your vehicle that reads: "I'm fjuckwit on RAT- tailgaters beware!" or "Play Cop onboard!" or maybe just post here before you take to the road so we'll know to stay home. Idjit.
EatMe - 19 Jan 2006 04:22 GMT > This is not a car mechinical question but I thought I ask for opinions > in [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > the > lane, or the other guy who was tailgating me. We term morons like you "CCI" for cruise-control-idiot.
Pass and get out of the way, moron!
grunt262@verizon.net - 19 Jan 2006 04:42 GMT Be very afraid if you tailgate next time. Big mistake if you think you own road. Who knows, next time, you might be driving off into median or something.
EatMe - 20 Jan 2006 03:59 GMT >>Be very afraid if you tailgate next time. Big mistake if you think you own road. Who knows, next time, you might be driving off into median or something.<<
But I never said anything about tailgating now did I? Hmmm? And do you drive in Texas Spanky? I don't own the road, but I also know what the left lane if for- something that seems to have escaped the attention of your drivers Ed instruction.
Here's an interesting excerpt from a recent R&T about American 'drivers' and levels of 'skill'- also take note of the Three Sins of Driving (let's face it buddy, no matter how you slice it you f*cked up, (1) the left lane is for passing...not cruising along 3mph faster than the right lane, (2) using the left lane for teaching unrequested lessons is immature):
Then you cross back into the U.S. and things change. The traffic gets slower, plodding drivers become more truculent (or maybe even recalcitrant), everyone drives in the left lane on the Interstate, and every other small town seems to have a cop running a radar trap. Suddenly, highway patrol cars appear in the flow of traffic.
To go from Canada (or England, France, Germany or Italy) into the U.S. is to feel exactly as if you've been demoted from adulthood and sent back to first grade, complete with hall monitors, teachers, lunch lines and slow-to-mature classmates who are still struggling with coat zippers and shoelace technology.
As an adult American driver, you feel you've been placed in a school desk adjusted too low for your knees.
Why is this?
There are, I believe, three basic forces at work here: Obliviousness, Sloth and Self-Righteousness. Yes, the Three Deadly Traffic Sins. The problem is, it's hard to know where one ends and the other begins.
EatMe - 20 Jan 2006 04:01 GMT Wups! This little bit further on is better and more applicable:
"Interstates raise similar questions. When a car paces itself with a slow-moving semi (as we saw at least a dozen times on our recent vacation) and refuses to pass, does the driver not see all those cars in the mirror? Or do we have a self-appointed amateur cop on our hands, who thinks it's immoral to go faster than 64 mph?
My guess is the driver is simply too lazy to pass the truck, disengage cruise control or put on a turn signal and move over. This would require physical motion, as well as a small amount of judgment. It's just too much work. Besides, in the right lane you have to deal with merging traffic. Better to stay in the left lane all day, and let people sweep around on the right. If they can.
This sort of lethargy has led to an interesting condition on American I-roads: Our Interstates have now reversed themselves.
Yes, the right lane has become the fast lane, while traffic moves in a solid, slow train on the left. Barb and I breezed almost all the way across Indiana in the right lane of I-80/90, passing bumper-to-bumper traffic on our left. Occasionally we had to merge left and go around a slow car, only to observe a full mile or two of absolutely empty right lane. But no one would move over, probably for fear of having to make a passing decision sometime in the future. Or being cut off and losing a place to someone else. It's amazing. On a busy highway, nearly half the pavement goes unused.
I don't know what you do to change this. I suggested in a column a few years ago that we needed more emphasis on lane discipline in our high school driver's education courses. Students could be asked to repeat, at least three times a day, "Stay right except to pass," and that phrase could be emblazoned over the classroom door. I got several letters informing me that I was revealing my old age. "There are no driver's ed courses in most high schools any more," I was told. "It's a thing of the past."
Theodrake - 20 Jan 2006 13:37 GMT > Yes, the right lane has become the fast lane, while traffic moves in a > solid, slow train on the left. Barb and I breezed almost all the way [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > place to someone else. It's amazing. On a busy highway, nearly half the > pavement goes unused. I know in some states it was (and still maybe) illegal to pass on the right. When I lived in Alabama I came across this phenomena. I spoke to a few people who where born and raised in Alabama and some said that is what they were taught by their daddy. Never pass on the right. One even implied that I was a dangerous driver becuase I admitted I passed on the right.
I wasn't insulted because these are also the idiots that parked on the right hand side break down lane on a 4-lane interstate to watch a fireworks display.
clifto - 21 Jan 2006 02:23 GMT > "Interstates raise similar questions. When a car paces itself with a > slow-moving semi (as we saw at least a dozen times on our recent > vacation) and refuses to pass, does the driver not see all those cars > in the mirror? Or do we have a self-appointed amateur cop on our hands, > who thinks it's immoral to go faster than 64 mph? I believe these people actually enjoy blocking traffic.
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CL (dnoyeB) Gilbert - 20 Jan 2006 16:18 GMT > This is not a car mechinical question but I thought I ask for opinions > in [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > the > lane, or the other guy who was tailgating me. Depends on what happened. If he ran into something while off the road you would probably bear some of the blame for your deceptive move. On the other hand if he runs into you then he would be at fault.
I know how you feel about tailgaters. They do that to me all the time. However, I also do it. When im a rush and driving fast and passing sometimes I can approach too fast and end up getting closer than I want to. I usually back off. So sometimes the tailgating is just a mistake, especially considering the move you pulled there :(
The folks I hate the most are the ones that are entering traffic from the on-ramp and think that means they are supposed to zoom past everybody until the ramp runs out then take the fking pole position! WTH is that? \o/ Especially when I was also on the on-ramp and just happened to merge in first chance I got like a civilized driver.
 Signature Thank you,
CL Gilbert "Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard." Ecclesiastes 9:16
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