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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / January 2006Inboard brakes - Curiosity
Many years ago, some high bucks cars (Jaguar, I believe was one of them), developed inboard disc brakes for their IRS rear axles. These brakes, IIRC, were mounted to either side of the banjo housing. This would allow the banjo housing to be hard mounted to the chassis, becoming sprung weight. The swing axle assemblies were then unsprung weight, and the figures of sprung/unspring were improved a bit. Does anyone else remember this? Were these systems ever in large scale production? It occurred to me that if this sort of system were worth developing, somebody would have. In a typical modern FWD system, inboard discs would be possible on the transmission side of the halfshafts, and a rear swing axle with sprung disc assemblies would also be possible. This is just a thought provoker. I imagine such a system either doesn't offer the advantages hoped for in the past, or is just too expensive or undependable to implement. HLS@nospam.nix wrote in article <UG5Af.813$2O6.63@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>... > Many years ago, some high bucks cars (Jaguar, I believe was one of them), > developed inboard disc brakes for their IRS rear axles. These brakes, [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Does anyone else remember this? Were these systems ever in large scale > production? Yep! All the Jags had them, alomng with several other foreign cars. They were not the easiest brakes to service....... > It occurred to me that if this sort of system were worth developing, > somebody > would have. It is still used in the rear of many RWD, formula and open-wheeled race cars, but they also use conventional front disc brakes mounted outboard near the wheels. > In a typical modern FWD system, inboard discs would be possible on the > transmission side of the halfshafts, and a rear swing axle with sprung disc > assemblies would also be possible. Yep.....BUT....... Break one cv Joint/half-shaft in a FWD car and you lose half your front brakes. Given that most FWD cars place up to 90 percent of their braking load on the front wheels, that would be quite a loss. Besides, I'm not sure the front drive assemblies are engineered to withstand the more violent braking actions versus smoother acceleration inputs. > This is just a thought provoker. I imagine such a system either doesn't > offer the > advantages hoped for in the past, or is just too expensive or undependable > to > implement. > Many years ago, some high bucks cars (Jaguar, I believe was one of them), > developed inboard disc brakes for their IRS rear axles. These brakes, [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > to > implement. In-board brakes were one of the many enhancements made to GP type cars many years ago. Certain high-end car manufacturers incorporated them more as an image enhancer (I think) than anything else. The drivability of cars like the Jag was not measurably enhanced and I suspect car makers could not really see that their addition improved sales. An expensive not-visible addition was dropped. > Many years ago, some high bucks cars (Jaguar, I believe was one of them), > developed inboard disc brakes for their IRS rear axles. These brakes, [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > to > implement. Early Jag inboard brakes required dropping the rear crossmember to service. Later versions were only slightly more accessable. Both suffered when the brakes overheated the oil seals on the final drive and oil leaked onto the rotors. The Audi 100LS is the only FWD I recall that had inboard front brakes. Changing pads on cars with auto trans was difficult and oil leaks onto the brakes were common. The layout thwarts cooling air from doing its' job resulting faster wear of the already soft German rotors and the drive axles must be removed to change them. In the few years these cars were on the road (they had many other problems) I never witnessed a broken axle. > Early Jag inboard brakes required dropping the rear crossmember to service. > Later versions were only slightly more accessable. Both suffered when the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > axles must be removed to change them. In the few years these cars were on > the road (they had many other problems) I never witnessed a broken axle. The only Jaguar I ever personally considered owning was an XK-E, slightly used in the 1960's. Compared to anything else I had ever driven, this was like a dream...fantastic roadworthiness, fine acceleration,etc. Then, before I bought, I found that they were typically British of that era.. burned a lot of oil, expensive to work on, stone age electrics,not so very reliable. I am very interested in what the companies have done in the last few years to make such dramatic improvements in body integrity, driveability, quietness. We have driven Buicks a lot, and they are fairly comfortable and roadworthy cars, but still with a little objectionable noise, body integrity okay but not good, a slight about of jitter at highway speed. But, compared to earlier Fords I have known (up through 1990 Thunderbirds) , Buick was a jump step better. (Notice, I do not brag on some of GM's engineering. Some engines, trannies, electrics, etc are terrible.) I have test driven Toyota Camry and Volks Passat recently and am truly amazed at the improvement over what I am used to. Perhaps these manufacturers have just taken a lot of care with many small things but the perceived feel, to me, is as if they have made quantum improvements. > The Audi 100LS is the only FWD I > recall that had inboard front brakes. Also the Citroen 2CV. >> The Audi 100LS is the only FWD I >> recall that had inboard front brakes. > >Also the Citroen 2CV. The 2CV has brakes? I thought you just stuck your foot through the hole in the floorboards to stop it? --scott  Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." > >> The Audi 100LS is the only FWD I > >> recall that had inboard front brakes. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > The 2CV has brakes? I thought you just stuck your foot through the > hole in the floorboards to stop it? So that's what Fred Flintstone drove... >> The Audi 100LS is the only FWD I >> recall that had inboard front brakes. > > Also the Citroen 2CV. ...and the Volkswagen K70. Front wheel drive, inboard disks on front, regular drums on rear wheels. Could be scary in wet weather: I soon learned to dry the rotors with my left foot on the brake pedal after driving through puddles of any size. -tih SignatureDon't ascribe to stupidity what can be adequately explained by ignorance. >>> The Audi 100LS is the only FWD I >>> recall that had inboard front brakes. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >learned to dry the rotors with my left foot on the brake pedal after >driving through puddles of any size. Alfa Romeo Milano's and GTV rear inboard brakes. Inboard brakes are harder to work on than regular ones. I think one reason you don't see that that much is that there is not that much air flowing under the car to cool the brakes. So outboard brakes are preferred. -------------- Alex Alex Rodriguez <adr5@columbia.edu> wrote in article <dqv3nh$63e$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu>... > In article <86k6ct4mvy.fsf@athene.hamartun.priv.no>, tih@hamartun.priv.no > says... > > Alfa Romeo Milano's and GTV rear inboard brakes. Inboard brakes are harder to > work on than regular ones. I think one reason you don't see that that much is > that there is not that much air flowing under the car to cool the brakes. So > outboard brakes are preferred. There is often a lot less air flowing around calipers and rotors that are stuck inside wheels on the outboard edge..... So many FWD cars have positively offset wheels to try and control torque steer that the entire brake setup is "protected" from air flow by being tucked inside the wheel.... |
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