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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / January 2006Muffler design
I want to fabricate muffler for my Fiat 126 (two cylinder air cooled 650cc engine). Actually it is not street legal, I am building tubular chassis, and I am trying to get Harley sound out of it. I knew that is not possible, but I want to get as near as possible. Anyone knew an URL where I could get more info on subject? Not necessarily how to build Harley muffler, but muffler in general (For DIY, not something complicated).  Signature___ ____ /__/ / \ ** Registrovani korisnik Linuksa #291606 ** / / \/ /\ \ ** Registered Linux user #291606 ** /__/\____/--\__\ ** http://counter.li.org/ ** > I want to fabricate muffler for my Fiat 126 (two cylinder air cooled > 650cc engine). Actually it is not street legal, I am building tubular > chassis, and I am trying to get Harley sound out of it. I knew that is > not possible, but I want to get as near as possible. There are several points to consider about this: 1. Harley Davidson applied for trademark protection for the exhaust sound of their motors. If they ever succeed in this you might be in violation of their trademark and could expect to be hauled into court and your Fiat seized as evidence. 2. For details on muffler design as well as a few other issues related to producing the Harley sound see: http://tc.engr.wisc.edu/Steuber/papers/1996/motorcycle.html Sean Q ps. see also: http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/law/st_org/iptf/articles/content/1998101101.html snip > 1. Harley Davidson applied for trademark protection for the exhaust > sound of their motors. snip I'm not positive of this but, have heard some metric bikes are programmed to missfire radomly at idle, trying to duplicate the Harley Davidson sound. davidj92 > snip > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I'm not positive of this but, have heard some metric bikes are programmed to > missfire radomly at idle, trying to duplicate the Harley Davidson sound. It's true! I also read that at the check-out center, on the cover of "The Star". It's gotta be true! > snip > > 1. Harley Davidson applied for trademark protection for the exhaust [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > missfire radomly at idle, trying to duplicate the Harley Davidson sound. > davidj92 Interesting stuff. There was a Discovery Channel program on Saturday that made comment of that. The whole show was about Harley Davidson. The history and where they are today. Yes, it was stated that the metric Vtwins do infact program the ignition to mimic the sound. Whoda thunk. bbjj > "davidj92" <davidj92REMOVE@sigecom.net> wrote... >> > 1. Harley Davidson applied for trademark protection for the exhaust [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > and where they are today. Yes, it was stated that the metric Vtwins do > infact program the ignition to mimic the sound. Whoda thunk. Yeah, but you can tell the difference because it's a metric miss. SignatureIf John McCain gets the 2008 Republican Presidential nomination, my vote for President will be a write-in for Jiang Zemin. Nedavno Sean pise: | 1. Harley Davidson applied for trademark protection for the exhaust | sound of their motors. If they ever succeed in this you might be in | violation of their trademark and could expect to be hauled into court | and your Fiat seized as evidence. I do not want to achieve exact copy, just as close as possible. | 2. For details on muffler design as well as a few other issues | related to producing the Harley sound see: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] | ps. see also: | http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/law/st_org/iptf/articles/content/1998101101.html Thanks for the links, but this is theory, I was looking for something with photos, drawings, instructions. Signature___ ____ /__/ / \ ** Registrovani korisnik Linuksa #291606 ** / / \/ /\ \ ** Registered Linux user #291606 ** /__/\____/--\__\ ** http://counter.li.org/ ** > Nedavno Sean pise: > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > | > http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/law/st_org/iptf/articles/content/1998101101.html The first trick is to get the Fiat to even run at all...... >| 1. Harley Davidson applied for trademark protection for the exhaust >| sound of their motors. If they ever succeed in this you might be in >| violation of their trademark and could expect to be hauled into court >| and your Fiat seized as evidence. > I do not want to achieve exact copy, just as close as possible. It just plain won't happen. Hardleys run an uneven firing angle - most twins, such as your Fiat, fire at an even angle. This, obviously, is by far the better way to do it, because the power is delivered more smoothly. Harley Twin :- Fire, Fire, Pause, Pause, Fire, Fire, Pause, Pause. Fiat Twin :- Fire, Pause, Fire, Pause, Fire, Pause, Fire, Pause. > It just plain won't happen. > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Fire, Pause, Fire, Pause, Fire, Pause, Fire, Pause. Pehaps judicious use of the ignition switch might work? ;-) -- Stuart >>| 1. Harley Davidson applied for trademark protection for the exhaust >>| sound of their motors. If they ever succeed in this you might be in [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > at an even angle. This, obviously, is by far the better way to do it, > because the power is delivered more smoothly. Not necessarily the better way to do it if you're riding on top of that engine all day, and it's rigid mounted to the frame of the motorcycle. The uneven firing impulses of a Harley, (Indian, Brough Superior, Vincent, any single crankpin V-twin), dampen harmonic vibration as a result of the uneven firing impulses. I read an article about this many years ago and I seem to remember that they attached acceleromters to a couple different bikes that could measure these higher frequency vibrations to prove the dampening effect. I've still got a '56 Panhead and yes it will make your hands tingle some at 75 mph. But I had a BMW K100 that absolutely buzzed the handlebars at that speed and, at least in my case, was much more uncomfortable to my hands. Had a Triumph, (another '56 model), and a BSA that had the same effect as the BMW. The first two there, vertical twins, the BMW an inline 4. All even firing impulses. I know this is all a subjective observation, but I believe there's something to it. Just my .02. Garrett Fulton >> Hardleys run an uneven firing angle - most twins, such as your Fiat, >> fire at an even angle. This, obviously, is by far the better way to >> do it, because the power is delivered more smoothly. > Not necessarily the better way to do it if you're riding on top of > that engine all day, and it's rigid mounted to the frame of the > motorcycle. The vast majority of car manufacturers decided that rigidly mounting engines to chassis was a bit crap back in the 1920s. Some lasted until the 1930s before they saw sense. >>> Hardleys run an uneven firing angle - most twins, such as your Fiat, >>> fire at an even angle. This, obviously, is by far the better way to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > engines to chassis was a bit crap back in the 1920s. Some lasted until the > 1930s before they saw sense. Yeah, but mounting an engine/gearbox flexibly in a chain-drive motorcycle would also be a bit crap! Chris SignatureRemove prejudice to reply. We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember Adrian <toomany2cvs@gmail.com> saying something like: >Harley Twin :- > >Fire, Fire, Pause, Pause, Fire, Fire, Pause, Pause. And don't forget the potato. Actually, to me the Hardly exhaust sounds more like somebody barfing down the chinaphone. >Fiat Twin :- > >Fire, Pause, Fire, Pause, Fire, Pause, Fire, Pause. Asthmatically, at that. Phear the Mighty Powa of the Fiat Farty. The best thing the OP could do is fit a decent lump in there - a Beemer boxer engine goes in - and simply make up a couple of tail pipes. SignatureDave SE6a "Grimly Curmudgeon" <grimlycurmudgeon683REMOVE@hotmail.com> cross-posted in message ---snip the cross-posted message--- We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember "'Key" <Key@Ya.Net> saying something like: >"Grimly Curmudgeon" <grimlycurmudgeon683REMOVE@hotmail.com> >cross-posted in message >---snip the cross-posted message--- Yes. And? Do you have anything useful to say, or are you simply following the nice shiny lines on the screen? SignatureDave SE6a > We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the > desert, when the [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > following the nice > shiny lines on the screen? does it have to be spelled out for ya dave ? I am sure you can figure it out for yourself.... do look for a clue ! Signature"Key" Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference..... ============================== We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember "'Key" <Key@Ya.Net> saying something like: <snip load of old bollocks> Sorry, I didn't quite catch that. SignatureDave SE6a >>The best thing the OP could do is fit a decent lump in there - a Beemer >>boxer engine goes in - and simply make up a couple of tail pipes. Whats wrong with a decent V twin? Like one of Massimo Bordis lumps We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember "Martin" <spamspam@spam.spam> saying something like: >>>The best thing the OP could do is fit a decent lump in there - a Beemer >>>boxer engine goes in - and simply make up a couple of tail pipes. > >Whats wrong with a decent V twin? Like one of Massimo Bordis lumps If it fits. The OP has gone off, but wasn't it a Fiat 5/600? Availability and price is an issue, too. Plenty of boxer lumps around. Mind you; where a boxer twin fits, a boxer four might.... A nice little (hah!) Gold Wing power unit might be the thing. SignatureDave SE6a > If it fits. The OP has gone off, but wasn't it a Fiat 5/600? > Availability and price is an issue, too. Plenty of boxer lumps around. > Mind you; where a boxer twin fits, a boxer four might.... A nice little > (hah!) Gold Wing power unit might be the thing. The GW runs a flat-six :) >>The GW runs a flat-six :) The GL1000 was a flat 4 >>>The GW runs a flat-six :) > > The GL1000 was a flat 4 True, wasn't thinking of the older ones. Gearbox made of chocolate though (So I've heard from someone with one fitted in a car..) >>Whats wrong with a decent V twin? Like one of Massimo Bordis lumps > If it fits. The OP has gone off, but wasn't it a Fiat 5/600? Yep. You want to tune it, lob a 650cc 126 lump in. IIRC, though, the 126 is neither V nor flat. The cylinders lie flat, but both in the same direction. >>If it fits. The OP has gone off, but wasn't it a Fiat 5/600? >>Availability and price is an issue, too. Plenty of boxer lumps around. >>Mind you; where a boxer twin fits, a boxer four might.... A nice little >>(hah!) Gold Wing power unit might be the thing. Or a Subaru flat 4 turbo!!!! >>>If it fits. The OP has gone off, but wasn't it a Fiat 5/600? >>>Availability and price is an issue, too. Plenty of boxer lumps around. >>>Mind you; where a boxer twin fits, a boxer four might.... A nice little >>>(hah!) Gold Wing power unit might be the thing. > >Or a Subaru flat 4 turbo!!!! Sir might want a radiator with that. SignatureIan |
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